ChiDragon

Thank you for your full of insight answer...

 

I'm checking the link you gave me...

 

Please move the thread to the most appropriate place Btw just let me know where the thread is moved so that I'll be able to go there...

 

Btw how important is movement in meditation ?

 

I know there are 4 factors that play great roles in qi manipulation :

Mind

Breath

Eyes

Movement

 

But what role does movement play in qi manipulation ? Does it help in directing qi ?

 

Must I direct qi manually or just let it flows ?

 

Because All I do right now is still breathing exercise and still meditation.

If you are doing isotonic Chi Kung, you are involving with you mind, breath, eyes and movement.

1. Your mind helps to control your body movements.

2. You eyes follow your movement of the arms will increase your concentration and help your mind to control the arms to move to different positions.

3. Breathing is helping to generate the inner chi, body strength, within the body.

4. The movements will build up your muscle tone and transform your muscles to be stronger and to have faster reflex.

Tongue on the upper palate.

 

1. You heard that it is to connect Ren and Du Channel.

 

So this is what is known, but the practical question I ask you readers and practioners

 

2. what exactly happens when you use or not use and when you not use and why by experience. And is there a method to connect the Ren and Du without relying on this.

 

Have fun in reflecting on you practise

Q

1. It is a fallacy.

2. Lifting up your tongue will keep your saliva flow to keep the inside of the mouth moisten. Otherwise, your mouth will be very dry during breathing practice. Indeed, it has no physical effect to your body whatsoever. The only thing is effecting you is the amount of oxygen that goes into your body.

Yes, we don't breathe like a baby anymore; but we need to practice to breathe like a baby again like Chi Kung.

5. 嫉妒心，伤天理，见人好事即不喜； 面是心非藏阴毒，终亦必亡而已矣。

嫉妒心，伤天理，见人好事即不喜；

Jealousy, violates the moral principles,

One sees others with good fortune, then he's unhappy;

面是心非藏阴毒，终亦必亡而已矣。

Despite showing a smiling face but it was not in the heart and full of evil thoughts,

Consequently, it was only a doom to self destruction at the end.

Riyue...

1. 無名天地之始。

2. 有名萬物之母。

3. 無,名天地之始。

4. 有，名萬物之母。

How would you translate these four lines...???

吾不知, 誰之子, 象帝之先

Translation:

I don't know who's son that he is. It seems like before all the gods.

"I meant 3 second inhale and 2 second exhale.

1. anyone have any idea why the longer inhale vs. the shorter exhale?

2. The important thing is that it cycles 12 times per minute."

**************************************************************************************

1. The reason we want to inhale longer is to breathe in more oxygen. When exhale, we want to breathe out the carbon dioxide. At the same time, we don't want to breathe out the rest of the unused oxygen.

2. That will keep a balance of oxygen and carbon dioxide so the blood vessels do not constrict to cause hypertension. Also, to maintain the pH at 7 to prevent to have too much acid in the blood.

In those little boxes, with that little dude sitting at the top corner, is what I was referring to. Basically, step by step, you start off breathing, and your awareness of breath only gets to the back of your throat, say, to start. But as your awareness gets better, and you relax more, you can follow your breath further down your throat, eventually to your lungs, then diaphragm, then dantien.

 

In the book they are mostly separate from the main text, so you wouldn't really be skipping to keep reading, but do the practice at your own pace

 

And that's what, to me at least, it sounded like what ChiDragon was referring to when he asked you to tell him where the breath stopped- as in, are you breathing all the way down to your belly, or are you getting caught in the top of your lungs or in your throat?

 

Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to lead him to.

1. That's a great idea. Thanks! I've been dying to keep moving forward in the book, so I've been pushing the practices too fast.

 

2. I think I have a 2 second breath without trying to stop it. Exhale is probably a little shorter than that.

1. Yes, please try to understand the whole procedure before you do it. This is a matter of life and breath.

2. Don't try to stop your breathing as a beginner, you are not ready for that yet. That is why you are having headaches. The reason we breath is try to bring lots of oxygen into the lungs to distribute through out the body and the brain. If you don't provide enough oxygen to your brain, you will feel dizzy and have headaches.

When you mediate, right now as a novice, try to just breath as you normally do. Try to feel where your breath stops as a reference point. The goal is to make your breath go though that reference point until reach the abdomen, but not in one day. You must do it slowly, it may that days, weeks, months or even years. Another word, do rush it and do it at your own pace. BTW It took me years of practice to hold my breath for one minute.

The key is how long you can hold your breath depends how much oxygen can you breathe into your lungs in one inhalation. That is why abdominal breathing is so important in Chi Kung because it allows your lungs to increase to the highest capacity to hold a maximum amount of air or oxygen. If you can keep this in mind, you have won half the battle already.

Twice now, while meditating I get a headache. The first time it lasted into the next day. I was worried I was going to have a 3 week headache. I don't know if it's to much air going to my brain or what. I seems to be connected to my breath. Like my breath is too rigid.

 

Also, how do you breath relaxedly and still have long deep breaths. I'm having a hard time relaxing while at the same time, breathing deeply. When I'm relaxed my breath becomes more shallow

Thank you. I always rest my tongue on the roof of my mouth. I heard it connects your psychic channels. I think it's a neck muscle or couple neck muscles that tenses up and then I get a headache. I just felt a neck muscle tensing as I typed that. I'll try the adominal breathing and see what happens. I think my breathing is too rigid while trying to lengthing it and it gives me a headache. It's hard for me to relax my muscles when I try lengthening my breath.

 

I guess just being more present to how tense I am might help. I know the way I'm breathing in feels like it's making me more tense. I can' gifure out how you could take long breaths without being tense though.

Infinite Truth...

Based on your statement and according to my experience, I think you are trying to learn to breathe from the book without a full understand how to start practice Chi Kung. I would like to inform you that you have to go through different stages of breathing before you can perform abdominal breathing. Without the fundamental breathing method and skip to abdominal breathing, you will feel all kind of air sickness.

I can guide you through it if you are really interested. First, you take a normal breath without forcing it and let know me where did your breath stop. Then we go from there. Is that a deal...???

Sweet, welcome. You're very specific what you like doing. That's awesome, I can tell you like meditating.

 

EDIT: My practice, is basically vipassana,and recently working on inner awareness and letting go.

Thank you for your warm welcome...............

Would you please shed some lights, for me, on your practices....??? Thanks.

Does anyone have a constant and conscious practice all day?

 

Anyone familiar with 3srb?

http://3srb.org/

 

3 second inhale and a 2 second inhale. Spoken to a couple individuals that swear by this practice if one does it diligently.

 

just looking for an alternative to chasing the empty stream of thoughts...

 

best,

j

I do abdominal breathing all day as my normal breathing habit.

What are you really asking here.???

3 second inhale and a 2 second inhale....??? OR

3 second inhale and a 2 second EXhale....???

The former serves no purpose. The latter is more practical and makes more sense.

Chapter 80 doesn't ring the bell...

Fair translation, I think.

 

The first time I read that chapter I thought, "That ain't never gonna' happen." And I still believe it will never happen unless there is some great catastrophe and most of the human species is wiped out.

 

But I still don't think that would be natural for humans anyway.

 

However, yes, I suppose that it is an excellent ideal.

"That ain't never gonna' happen." Exactly. Throughout the Tao Te Ching, LaoTze's philosophy was based on his famous slogan "Wu Wei". He defined Wu Wei as being natural; let thing be as they are; let Nature take its course. His ideas are too idealistic and impractical to make things to happen in the real world. However, this is, only, one of the chapters which reflects LaoTze's pipe dream.

All the Chapters with Wu Wei in them are, almost, his principles suggesting how a ruler should handle his people.

PS...

Sometimes, I got carried away when things come to the TTC. Please do not hesitate to let me know if I'm out of line.

Chapter 80 - A Peaceful Little Country

1. 小國寡民!

2. 有什伯之器 而不用,

3. 使民重死 而不遠徙。

4. 雖有舟輿 無所乘之,

5. 雖有甲兵 無所陳之。

6. 使民復結繩而用之。

7. 甘其食,

8. 美其服,

9. 安其居,

10.樂其俗。

11.鄰國相望,

12.雞犬之聲相聞,

13.民至老死,

14.不相往來。

Terse English

1. A small countries with few people!

2. Though there are many utensils but not in use.

3. Let the people feel rather die than migrate.

4. Though owning boats and wagons no need to ride them,

5. Though owning weapons no need to display them.

6. Let people return to era of using knots as reminder.

7. Give them food,

8. Offer them attire,

9. Provide them shelter,

10. Amuse them with entertainment.

11. Looking over the neighboring countries,

12. Hearing the sounds of chickens and dogs of each other,

13. People grew old until death,

14. Neither socialized with one another.

ahhh......Marblehead

I don't see any rocks in your head. How did you ended up with such a humble nickname...??? You are so Wu Wei by just letting Nature take its course. A true Taoist do not compete but placing himself behind and ended up in front....

Yes, LaoTze was very clever in using the multi-definition of yo(you), wu, Tao, tao, and Te to express his principles.

I know you don't mind me showing my justification for the conclusion of the translations.

By the definition of Chapter 1:

有(you): Visible; Tao is 1; the tangible state of Tao.

無(wu): Invisible; Tao is 0; the intangible state of Tao.

By the definition of Chapter 40:

1. 天下萬物生於有，

2. 有生於無。

1. All things came from you(有,1);

2. And you(有,1) came from wu(無,0).

All things came from Visible(1).

And Visible(1) came from Invisible(0).

Chapter 42:

1. 道生一。

1. Tao engenders One;

Tao(0) engenders One(1), thus

Invisible engenders Visible.

2. 一生二。

2. One engenders Two;

Visible(1) engenders Two. Thus,

Two is the Yin and Yang.

3. 二生三(Two engender three).

4. 三生萬物(Three engender all things).

3. Yin and Yang united as the three,

4. The essence of all things.

FYI...

Dan-tien has nothing to do with the Tao Te Ching. It was a term only used by the martial artists to indicate the location where the belly is but not the belly itself. Please do not confuse yourself and create a fallacy within the interpretation of the Tao Te Ching.

Chapter 37 -

1. 道常無為，

2. 而無不為。

3. 侯王若能守之，

4. 萬物將自化。

5. 化而欲作，

6. 吾將鎮之以無名之樸。

7. 無名之樸，

8. 夫亦將無欲。

9. 不欲以靜，

10.天下將自定。

Translation in terse English...

1. Tao always being natural,

2. Then, nothing cannot by done.

3. If rulers can follow it,

4. All things will self transform.

5. After development and become extravagant,

6. I'll suppress them back to the primitive nameless state,

7. At the nameless state,

8. Then, will have no desire,

9. No desire but calm,

10 Hence, world peace will be self maintained.

Chapter 42 - Genesis

1. 道生一。

2. 一生二。

3. 二生三。

4. 三生萬物。

5. 萬物負陰而抱陽，

6. 沖氣以為和。

Translation

1. Tao engenders One;

2. One engenders Two;

3. Two engender Three;

4. Three engender all things.

5. All things with yin on the back and yang in the front.

6. Blend the primordial essences and become homogeneous.

Chapter 12 - The Extravagant World

1. 五色令人目盲

2. 五音令人耳聾

3. 五味令人口爽

4. 馳騁畋獵

5. 令人心發狂

6. 難得之貨

7. 令人行妨

8. 是以聖人為腹不為目

9. 故去彼取此

Translation in terse English

1. Five colors blind the eyes of the beholder.

2. Five tones make people deaf.

3. Five flavors numb the human mouth.

4. Hunting on horse back,

5. Make people's heart go insane.

6. Rare obtainable goods,

7. Make people behave nefariously.

8. A wise man lives for his belly but not for the eyes.

9. Therefore, discard the latter and keep the former.

I was practicing the Yang style Tai Chi Quan and Tai Chi Qigong(Chi Kung). Tai Chi Qigong also known as Tai Chi Kung(Gong) for short. Tai Chi Quan is the basic form for a beginner to start with. After a long period of practice, when the breathing level had reached the abdominal level. Then, go to the next level which is Tai Chi Kung.

In the practice of Tai Chi Quan, the arm and leg movements are significant and breathing is secondary. It is because the movements will guide the breathing from shallow to deep until it reach the abdomen. In general, the abdomen was referred as the dan-tien. In modern term is called abdominal breathing at this stage of the practice. The Chinese called that as the Chi(breath) sunk to the dan-tien which is really abdominal breathing.

After the abdominal breathing was attained, then do the Tai Chi Kung. Tai Chi Kung involves more in breathing to guide the movements of the body. In Tai Chi Quan the arms and legs are relax while doing the movements and breathe naturally. As in Tai Chi Kung, the strength were applied to the arms and legs while performing abdominal breathing. This will solidify all the muscle in the body during inhalation which make you the strongest person in the world at that moment. During exhalation, you will relax all your muscles, then you would be the weakest at that moment.

Tai Chi Quan also builds up your muscle tone and increase the speed of the reflex after a long period of time. Tai Chi Kung will increase your muscle tone even greater with more body strength. You can almost lift up more weights and hold it a lot longer than before. At this time, you have to be careful who and how you touch somebody. You must learn to control your own strength with your mind.

No, I do not encourage this practice.

I'm finding that I can maintain a 20 second breath fairly comfortably, and a 30 second breath isn't too great of a stretch, so maybe I'm not too far off (and all those hours of wall gazing weren't a complete waste of time, lol).

 

Your research sounds very interesting--do you mind if I ask what in particular you're investigating?

Bendowa...

It's hard to time your breathing at the beginning; why don't you just breathing like you normally do and increase the time progressively. The idea is not to force yourself to do something that you are not accustomed to. In your case, just do a 18 second breathing for a while until you are really comfortable with it, then do 19, 20, 21...30 second progressively.

FYI

For my research, you may read the article from below to get an idea. From this article, if you click "See all Articles by James", then you can see the rest of my articles.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Scientific_Explanation%20.html

Chi, yes it is interpretation. My understanding is that all translations of the characters are interpretive to some degree. When you explain this as a difference in Eastern vs Western philosophy, I wonder if that rests more on the differences in era than region? If one considers what is happening in China today--at the ruling level and trends among the rising middle class--there is great discomfort among the former, as the latter grow increasingly discontent with the totalitarian requirements on them for unquestioning subservience (see lines 2 - 12).

Stan...

Natives do not have the burden to translate the classic text but just do the interpretation. However, there will be problems if the character were translated into another language. It will cause mistranslation; from the mistranslation will cause misinterpretation. Even the translation was correct, it can still be misinterpreted due to some cultural differences in philosophy.

First of all, when I said this as a difference in Eastern vs Western philosophy, I meant the interpretation between my translation and your interpretation. Anyway, to answer your question, the Tao Te Ching was written for all eras and regions. However, LaoTze's idea was too idealistic and too practical. His ideals in the Tao Ta Ching was adapted in the Han dynasty and works well. However, it didn't work too well in other era or region because the rulers did not want to follow the principles in the Tao Te Ching.

Thanks for the welcome. I have practiced Tai Chi for many years and then Tai Chi Qigong. I studied the Yi Jing and Tao Te Ching to learn all about the yin-yang concept. Since from practicing Chi Kung which gave me a tremendous of body energy, I have been trying to integrate the Chi Kung concept with the western modern science by studying physiology and the function of the human body. I have a great advantage of looking into two sides of the world, for my research, due to my bilingual capability.

I have realized that no matter what kind of Chi Kung or any kind of martial arts do have something in common: breathing and muscle contraction. By knowing the this two things, one can do all kind of body movement will give you the same health effects.

It that what you would like to know....???