ChiDragon
-
Content count
8,599 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
11
Posts posted by ChiDragon
-
-
Yes, it was self understood. A Sage is still human. However, in general, the emphasis was placed on the notion of "his unselfishness".
-
Cauldron is a cooking ware. As I said before, dan-tien is only a given name for a location on your body.
-
Chapter 21 Manifestation of Tao Te
1. 孔德之容
2. 惟道是從。
3. 道之為物
4. 惟恍惟惚。
5. 惚兮恍兮
6. 其中有象。
7. 恍兮惚兮
8. 其中有物。
9. 窈兮冥兮
10. 其中有精。
11.其精甚真。
12.其中有信。
13.自古及今，
14.其名不去。
15.以閱眾甫。
16.吾何以知眾甫之狀哉！
17.以此。
Revision 21-1
1. The appearance of great virtue;
2. Only trails Tao.
3. This thing, Tao,
4. It's dull and hazy.
5. Amongst the dullness and haziness,
6. It has images.
7. Amongst the haziness and dullness,
8. It has things.
9. Amongst the profusion and dimness,
10. It has the essence.
11. Its essence is real,
12. And promising.
13. From present to ancient,
14. Its name does not vanish.
15. Using it to observe the origin of all things.
16. I can recognize the original state of all things!
17. From it. -
Yes, I see it as a difference between translation and interpretation or principle and application or the philosophies of the West and the East.
-
Chapter 7 - The Unselfishness
1. 天長地久。
2. 天地所以能長且久者，
3. 以其不自生，
4. 故能長生。
5. 是以聖人後其身而身先，
6. 外其身而身存。
7. 非以其無私邪！
8. 故能成其私。
Translation in terse English...
1. Heaven and Earth are eternal.
2. The reason they are eternal,
3. Because they do not strive for themselves.
4. Therefore, they are eternal.
5. A gentleman always place himself behind but ended up in front.
6. One keeping oneself in a neutral position will survive.
7. Is not because of his unselfishness!
8. Which gained his personal accomplishment.
-
Chapter 3
1. 不尚賢，
2. 使民不爭。
3. 不貴難得之貨，
4. 使民不為盜。
5. 不見可欲，
6. 使民心不亂。
7. 是以聖人之治，
8. 虛其心，
9. 實其腹，
10.弱其志，
11.強其骨；
12.常使民無知無欲，
13.使夫智者不敢為也。
14.為無為，
15.則無不治。
Revision 3-1
1. Dejectedly soliciting intelligentsia,
2. Discourage people from striving.
3. Not to value hard to obtained goods,
4. Prevent people from being thieves.
5. Not being seen desirable,
6. People won't become perturbed.
7. With sagacious ruling,
8. Emptied one's heart,
9. Solidified one's belly,
10. Weaken one's volition,
11. Strengthen one's bone,
12. Always keeping the people innocent without desire,
13. Presumptuous people cannot commit their acts.
14. Trailing to a natural path,
15. Thus nothing that couldn't be handled.
-
Hi. My name is James, or more accurately, that is the name I go by some places. I practice meditation (zazen), have practiced martial arts, and experimented heaviley witbh psychedelics as a way of attaining spiritual achievement.
It was only recently that I was introduced to Taoist practices through Mantiak Chia's multiorgasmic Man book. I'm kind of scared of the effectiveness of this practices. In my second attempt I achieved a very intense orgasm, in my whole body wich lasted for maybe one minute by mastrubating. I felt great the whole day!
So far so good, but yesterday I tried again, and well, I cpouldn't achieve orgasm (maybe very very little 'pelvic orgasms') and I felt as if energy was stuck! I ejaculated but I still felt too much heat and something stuck in mys testies area. (Why?) I did cold draw and big draw. The energy went up, but not all of it. It was very hard for me to sleep last night.
I've ejaculated again, but I feel the energy disseminated trhpoug my whole body. I try to circulate it but sometimes it gets stuck, sometimes it dissappear from one placve and appears in my arms or legs. Then it gets stuck in my trhoat and I can't move it trhpough my spine. It feels like I have too much energy but can't get it out!
Sorry if this is kind of inapropiate but the main reason for me to open this account was to ask to people who actually know what's going on for some advice.
Nice to meet you!
My friend, masturbation is not something to be practiced if you do not understand physiology. Do you know after your first masturbation or have sex with someone, you are not suppose to do it again until 72 hours later. It is because your sperms aren't mature before then. In your case, you did it too often without letting your sperms to be fully developed. Hence, that is why you are having so much unpleasant feelings.
FYI If you have not practice Chi Kung for a long time or at all, you cannot accomplish multiorgasm. My advice to you, for a healthier life, please get rid of or don't read that book which you are so fond of.
-
Oh, I fully intend to make sure we talk about the negative aspects of reality either in this thread or the virtue thread. We can't look at only half of a duality and thing we understand everything.
LaoTze's intention was by looking at the negative side, in order, for one to understand the positive side. In my post, the implication was that LaoTze was not so much concern what good had been done to Nature but it was the bad that he is more concern with. He knew anything good to Nature will cause no harm. Thus, the over all concept of Wu Wei is take no action to interfere with Nature. There was nothing to worry about if things are good to Nature. Is there...???
-
"The possession of knowledge is not to demonstrate how much one knows. It is a matter of digestion and application. Ignoring the facts blurs the foreseeing intellectual focus. One with an open mind can behold a panorama blindfolded. Finally, the denial of the unwanted truth is a move toward the deprivation of learning."
-
Oh, people
All this talk about creating dan-tien. Did you know that there was no such thing as dan-tien...??? The term was created for the convenience of locating certain parts of the body. The upper, middle, lower part of the body are equivalent to the upper, middle, lower dan-tien. Please, dan-tien is only a location on your body. It was not created from practicing some kind of whatever.
-
1
-
-
It seems to me that there is something missing here about intent. LaoTze always concern about the negative side of matters. What he was suggesting is not to have an intent to cause any harm to Nature as being natural. In the contrary, he did not say anything about not to have a good intent for Nature.
-
I had specifically stated that the definition of Te stands alone in Chapter 51.
Yes, it seems that you cannot unlearn what you had learned before. What I was telling you, stay within the definition which defined by LaoTze in Chapter 51 without any external influence. Chapter 51 is about pure Nature, thus there is no human nature involved.
What said is all correct, but they do not apply in Chapter 51 because this chapter was establishing its own definition for Te. One must try to isolate all other ideas from the past experience for the interpretation this chapter. The whole Wu Wei concept was derived from this Chapter.
-
Hello Chi,
I understand this, my point is that it's not very specific. The passages you've translated are vague. Do you believe that the Tao Teh Ching is intentionally vague in this regard, or are there actual virtues one can attribute to Te and Tao? Compassion for instance?
Aaron
Aaron
I had specifically stated that the definition of Te stands alone in Chapter 51.
Maybe it seems vague to you because you are mixing external human emotions with Tao and Te. This chapter was very clear to me that Tao let Nature take it course be letting all things grow without any interference. LaoTze defined the Te is the actual virtue; Te(Chinese) = virtue(English). It seems to me you are looking at Te and virtue are two different things. Actually they carry the same meaning but the only difference between them are the two languages.
Another word, Te is virtue; and virtue is Te. Therefore, I am not saying virtue is attribute to Te because Te and virtue are identical. This is the best I could explain it.
-
Okay, so to make this more interesting, what exactly are the Taoist Virtues we are supposed to foster? Is it the three jewels or does it go deeper than that? How do we know what is Te and what isn't? If we simply use the definition "engendered from Tao" can we really have an actual answer or are we simply working on faith?
Aaron
Rephrase...
10.Tao engenders all things,
11.Te fosters them.
12.Grow all things nourish them,
13.Let all things grow to maturity,
14.Foster all things and protect them.
15.Produce all things but not possess them.
16.Keep them but not restrain them,
17.Raise them but not control them,
18.Is the abyssal virtue(Te).
These are all spelled out in Chapter 51, no where else.
-
Agree. And I think that these are excellent virtues for man to hold to.
Yes, these Virtues of Tao was considered to be the Wu Wei concept. If human follows the Wu Wei concept was considered to be 有道(you tao, small t) or virtuous.
"Be aware though that I will have to consider 'the true nature of things' in the discussion in order to feel the subject is being discussed properly."Yes, that was the reason why I am here.
-
zhan zhuang is a standing form of Chi Kung. There is no movement in the form but breathing is a very significant factor. To practice it is by standing with the knees bent at some angle. The lower the angle of the knees that can be bent which shows the progression of the practice. While standing, the hands are held in the air forming a circle as like you were holding a barrel.
Yiquan is a form of exercise in moving the body freely and comfortably in high concentration with the mind.
-
Chapter 51 - The abyssal Te(玄德)
1. 道生之，
2. 德畜之，
3. 物形之，
4. 勢成之。
5. 是以萬物,莫不尊道而貴德。
6. 道之尊，
7. 德之貴，
8. 夫莫之命而常自然。
9. 故,
10.道生之，
11.德畜之。
12.長之育之。
13.亭之毒之。
14.養之覆之。
15.生而不有，
16.為而不恃，
17.長而不宰。
18.是謂玄德。
Translation in terse English
1. Tao engenders it,
2. Te fosters it.
3. Matter forms it,
4. Environment grows it.
5. Hence, all things respect Tao and honor Te.
6. Tao's dignity,
7. Te's value.
8. Those were not interfered but let them be natural.
9. Therefore,
10.Tao engenders it,
11.Te fosters it.
12.Grow it nourish it,
13.Let it grow to maturity,
14.Foster it and protect it.
15.Produce it but not possess it.
16.Keep it but not restrain it,
17.Raise it but not control it,
18.Is the abyssal virtue.
-
A friend of mine who is very outgoing, social and loves being with and talking to friends.
He likes meditating but has the following experiences when he does.
From his email
"Oh and I started meditating again and then stopped again. On the days I meditated, I would get angry more easily, agitated more quickly, and be generally more impatient on the day I do it. I really enjoy it while I'm in it, but it has this effect on me as I go about my life that feels unhealthy"
and
"last year I just watched my breath. this year i just sit. either think about nothing or just do some "calm abiding." VERY recently (as in, last time i meditated) and wished for the ability to give and receive love to specific people. Same results each time: a disconnect with other people i interact with the next day."
Any ideas, help would be appreciated.
Sorry, based on the presented facts, your friend did not perform any meditation at all. He was either didn't know how or somebody taught him incorrectly. In his heart, he was full of desire and wished to accomplish something that he is not capable of. As a result, he was frustrated and cannot have a peace of mind.
-
I know that the Virtue of Tao and the virtue of man are different (but not always). However, they spring from the same source (process).
And yes, Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu spoke to the differences between the Virtue of Tao and the virtue of man.
I would enjoy engaging in a discussion of the concepts with you. Be aware though that I will have to consider 'the true nature of things' in the discussion in order to feel the subject is being discussed properly.
What does everyone think of the comments:
~ "Dao begets all things, and Virtue fosters them."
~ "Virtue is the reflection of Dao, and Dao is the root of Virtue."
Chapter 51
1. 道生之： Dao engenders all things，
2. 德育之： Virtue fosters them.
Here is the modern interpretation of the 道生之,德育之.
1. All things were evolved from a process that was existed in a natural environment. It was considered to be that Tao engendered them(道生之).
2. There is a nourishing procedure that was existed in a natural environment was utilized for the development of all things. It was considered to be that Te fostered them(德育之).
By LaoTze's definition, the meaning of 德(Te) stands alone in Chapter 51.
1. Tao engenders it,
2. Te fosters it.
3. Matter forms it,
4. Environment grows it.
5. Hence, all things respect Tao and honor Te.
6. Tao's dignity,
7. Te's value.
8. Those were not interfered but let them be natural.
9. Therefore,
10.Tao engenders it,
11.Te fosters it.
12.Grow it nourish it,
13.Let it grow to maturity,
14.Foster it and protect it.
15.Produce it but not possess it.
16.Keep it but not restrain it,
17.Raise it but not control it,
18.Is the abyssal virtue.
The virtues of Tao were defined by lines 12 through 18:
12.Grow it nourish it,
13.Let it grow to maturity,
14.Foster it and protect it.
15.Produce it but not possess it.
16.Keep it but not restrain it,
17.Raise it but not control it,
18.Is the abyssal virtue.
Line 18 specifically pointed out that lines 12 through 17 are the Te of Tao.
-
I envy you. I say that as a compliment to your ability. Sad that I had such a horrible start in my early education process.
Anyhow: Ultimately the Virtue of Tao and the virtue of man are one and the same.
I totally agree but this is exactly where the arguements begin when the evil actions of man are considered.
I also like the heart connection in virtue, like saying Tao is the Path of Heart.
Yes. I like that too. Chuang Tzu loved to refer to the heart of man in his discussions.
Be well!
Marblehead: "Ultimately the Virtue of Tao and the virtue of man are one and the same."
Sorry, they are not the same. One cannot judge the TTC meaning of 德(Te) by the character itself. I am sure that you have doubt in your mind because you have distinguished the English word "virtue" with 'V' and 'v'.
Marblehead: "Ah! What am I perhaps saying regarding Virtue and virtue? Hehehe. That is still a work in progress."
I would like to work this with you if you don't mind. BTW That was my recent thought and starting a new thread on the subject. However, I held down the Ctrl + an unknown key and the thread vanished. Actually, my browser closed. Fortunately, I picked up on this one.
-
-
Chapter 14
14
1. 視之不見,名曰夷。
2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。
3. 摶之不得,名曰微。
4. 此三者不可致詰，
5. 故混而為一。
6. 其上不皦，
7. 其下不昧，
8. 繩繩不可名，
9. 復歸於無物。
10.是謂無狀之狀，
11.無物之象，
12.是謂惚恍。
13.迎之不見其首，
14.隨之不見其後。
15.執古之道以御今之有。
16.能知古始，
17.是謂道紀。
Translated in terse English...
1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless.
2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless.
3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless.
4. These three objects blended in one.
5. Its top not brilliant.
6. Its bottom nor dim.
7. Its continuance unnameable.
8. Returned to being nothingness(state of invisibility),
9. Is called form of no form.
10. An image of nothingness,
11. Is called obscure.
11. Greet it cannot see its head.
13. Follow it cannot see its back.
14. Grasp the presence of Tao,
15. Driven all the present physical being
16. Able to understand the ancient origin,
17. It's called the Principles of Tao.
-
I wonder... Is impartiality our natural state? Or is it something that requires intent. Is this state of effortless impartiality within our grasp or an ideal pointed to in scripture?
Impartial is not our natural state. It is something that requires intent. For example, if one wants to be a ruler or a judge, impartial is mandatory on his part to carry out justice for the people.
-
Yeah, I suppose that is a fair consideration. I don't see Heaven and Earth as having any intent at all. The pure man would, I am sure, have intent to be impartial. I think the Sage probably has already attained impartiality so there would be no need for intent.
That's exactly, Heaven and Earth don't have any intent at all; but they are impartial though. LaoTze was using the impartial part of Heaven and Earth as a model for a sage to follow. Do you see there is a pattern in the Tao Te Ching that LaoTze always start saying something about Nature then followed with a sage....??? What he was doing is setting up a model, Nature to human, for a sage to follow.
Remember...
Human follows the mandate of Earth,
Earth follows the mandate of Heaven,
Heaven follows the mandate of Tao,
Tao follow its natural self.
Please keep in mind that the TTC was written in classic text, don't take a sage too literally. In the TTC, a sage does not always meant as a sage. When people was mentioned in relation with a sage, this sage was referred to as a ruler. Classic text, sometimes, does not say what it meant; and does not meant what its says. Indeed, it requires some mental manipulations to come up with a logical interpretation.
How to create the real dan-tien?
in General Discussion
Posted
"But alas, most people don't actually have a lower field! In the beginning, it's only a concept, a position somewhere inside the lower abdomen."
Yes, no matter how you look at it. It was only conceptual. I do agree that there is also a language barrier. However, it is not on my part because I am really dealing with the direct contents from its origin. Maybe it would be wise for me not to participate in the discussion of this thread.