ChiDragon

11 minutes ago, Antares said:

Yang style is simplified version of Taiji, so no neidan in it. Read about the history of it - how and why it was developed. 

Who said Taiji is neidan? Taiji and neidan are practiced differently, but both do involved with abdominal breathing. What I am trying to people was abdominal breathing is the key to all martial arts.

FYI Any style of Taiji has the same effect on the body. It is not the style that counts, rather it is how much time and effort one puts into for the diligent practice to condition the body.

I know what Neidan is all about, would you like to hear the Chinese version of it?

On 8/24/2024 at 8:58 AM, thewheelofortune said:

I have a question do i need to practice martial arts before getting into neigong the reason i'm asking is because i have a disability that impact my balance and i'm not sure if its adequate for my case 

Hi @thewheelofortune

Welcome to TDB. You don't need to learn martial arts to get into neigong. Neigong is more like a prerequisite to martial arts. It help you to build up your internal strength. Perhaps you would like to concentrate on that. Just pay more attention to breathing, it is the key to your health in the future.

Good luck!

9 minutes ago, dwai said:

Maybe it is a terminology thing. Did you learn Taijiquan from a teacher? 
 

The way I have been taught (and can validate from my own experience) is that muscular strength (li) blocks the flow of qi and generation of jin. In fact we use hardly any muscular strength to apply taiji power (if we’re bouncing someone, it feels like they weigh 1 lb instead of 150 lbs, for example). 
 Anyway this is a discussion done ad nauseum here on TDB. 

Yes, I learned Taijiquan from Marry Chu, a master of the Yang Style Taiji.

"if we’re bouncing someone, it feels like they weigh 1 lb instead of 150 lbs,"
I don't think you have realized that was the internal strength you have developed from the practice of Taijiquan.

BTW The internal strength developed from Taiji is called Jin(勁)

On 8/31/2024 at 5:02 PM, dwai said:

If you are conditioning muscles in Taijiquan then you are doing it wrong I’m afraid. But there’s nothing wrong with conditioning the muscles - I lift weights, do cardio, etc. But Taijiquan is the opposite of that - it is about releasing, letting go of muscular strength and developing internal power. One can do both, but not at the same time. 

If I am doing it wrong in conditioning muscles with Taijiquan, if that is the case, I shall quit Taijiquan after forty years of practice. FYI Taiji is considered as an internal practice to build up internal strength of the muscles. It doesn't display the extrusion contour of the muscles as in weight lifting. Weight lifting was considered as an external practice.

"it is about releasing, letting go of muscular strength and developing internal power. "
You got this in reverse. Taijiquan develops the internal power of the muscles then it can be released in magnitude by the control of the mind as one wish.

The distinction between Neigong(內功) and Waigong(外功) are by the methods of internal and external practice.

16 hours ago, dwai said:

this guy is doing a more intense workout without any Qigong/neigong involved

While I’m not disputing that Sabre forms are not taxing, it is not demonstrative of Neidan/neigong either. 

Sure, breath work is involved, conditioning is involved, but it’s not Neidan. 

That is right he is doing a more intense workout. He is not practicing Qigong/neigong . Of course, it is not demonstrative of Neidan/Neigong. It is demonstrating the result of the final product of the practice of some kind. That which gives the ability for the body to perform.

19 hours ago, dwai said:

That sounds like a self-defeating mental game to me. How much Neidan does one need to know to learn and perform a Sabre-form? I contend that it is zero.

 

Would you like to help us understand how it reveals what and how much they know about Neidan? 

Yes, you are right. Perform a Sabre form is not how much does one need to know to learn Neidan. Rather it was the result from the practice of Neidan in conditioning a healthy body to do the performance. Neidan was accomplished through the practice of abdominal breathing. Hence, proper breathing will help the body to maintain its energy level for the continuous performance without getting fatigue!

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

My criticism on it is .... you should have shut the windows .... or at least turned the stereo down 

 

( that music was terrible ) 

Thank for your humbleness and honesty.

4 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

It involves the creation of an elixir or an embryo.

What happens then? What have you gained? Did you orally taken the elixir?

You all had made your points. Thank you very much. Hope you all practice your own method to a successful journey.

43 minutes ago, dwai said:

Sure, breath work is involved, conditioning is involved, but it’s not Neidan. 

Please tell me what Neidan is rather than it is not.

On 8/31/2024 at 5:02 PM, dwai said:

Ok, so Neidan = qigong = neigong = breathing? 

No, they are not. However, neidan, qigong and neigong are all involved in breathing. Nothing works without breathing, please be informed that breathing means abdominal breathing.

1 hour ago, dwai said:

That sounds like a self-defeating mental game to me. How much Neidan does one need to know to learn and perform a Sabre-form? I contend that it is zero.

 

Would you like to help us understand how it reveals what and how much they know about Neidan? 

I would like to see you to pick up a sabre and start swing it without the practice of Neidan, Qigong or Neigong, whichever you prefer. Then, tell me how it feels with the sabre in your hand. I can assure you without conditioning your body with some kind of gong, you will not last for long.

Your body has a certain amount of energy to spare. After 3 to 6 minutes or so, some might take a little longer, your body will be exhausted. That is why boxers were put into the ring for a 3-minute round each time. Then, rest for one minute. If the body can recover and produced some energy, the boxer will survive for another round. Otherwise, the boxer gets KOed by the stronger opponent.

How does the body sustain its strength is by breathing to capture the oxygen into the body cells to produce the energy. The more oxygen in the body, the longer the body can sustain on its feet and perform its task.
 

The 6 minute video was to prove that the significant of the ability in breathing. Without continuous proper breathing, the performer wouldn't last for 3 minutes. Without the practice of Taiji in conditioning the body muscles, the movements would be much different and awkward.

Neidan(內丹) is mainly involved in breathing, abdominal breathing to be exact. The action was considered to be 氣沉丹田, sink chi to the dantian, it was referred by ancient Chinese Taoists. The rest about how the body produce energy will be in the modern explanation about cell respiration. It is for your own discovery.

On 7/13/2024 at 12:32 PM, roamthevoid said:

Neidan (& Neigong) provides various benefits in different stages, like improved health both physically and psychologically, improved abilities to enter concentrative states and so on,

I've also heard the highest goal of Neidan is to become a "Heavenly Immortal" / Tian Xian, but to my understanding, at least in the folk Chinese culture,

 So far, these thoughts are the true beliefs in the Taoist religion but not necessarily in Taoism.

On 7/13/2024 at 12:32 PM, roamthevoid said:

The ultimate goal of (Theravada) Buddhism is to escape Samsara and therefore end all suffering for oneself. In the same sense, I wonder what the ultimate goal of Neidan is?

 

Neidan (& Neigong) provides various benefits in different stages, like improved health both physically and psychologically, improved abilities to enter concentrative states and so on, and the true masters with the right karma and dedication can give birth to golden embroyo and can dematerialize and materialize at will. In other words, they develop Siddhis.

 

That's all fine and well as intermediary road marks, but it seems to me that the highest goal of Neidan is not very clear.

It seems to me that the OP was relating Neidan by emphasizing to Buddhism idea and thoughts. Thus that is why it is so confusing and unclear. It was completely out of the scope of Taoism. FYI Neidan is a practice method originated by Chinese Taoist. Hence, there were lots of discussion about Neidan here before. Perhaps some late comers might have missed. It wouldn't hurt to spend sometime to review them.

It was posted here for a purpose. It is here to hear the comments to reveal the truth of what is in people's mind. It will reveal what and how much people knew about Neidan.

11 hours ago, NaturalFlow said:

I would like to interact and ask questions

Weclcome!
Please stay and do interact and ask questions. TDB welcomes you!

Anybody else has a comment to make? Let's hear it!

18 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Its a nice external display, but the internal connection isnt there from where im sitting

Yes, that's right. There was no connection between our understanding to begin with in the first place.

8 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I would be curious to know how exactly this relates to anything being discussed?

You cannot relate this to the importance of breathing?

phoenixdragon
 We would like to welcome you in a warmest Taoist way. Please don't just come and go. Why don't you stay here for lunch and dinner!?

On 4/7/2024 at 3:30 PM, oattao said:

I was curios to know if his method is actually derived from ancient texts and practices, as he claims it is.

It came from a fictional story like Martial arts novels, 武俠小說(wǔxiá xiǎoshuō).

FYI Any excessive sexual practice is not healthy for the reproductive system. I would stay away from it! Other wise, it will ruin your life completely. There were many members came to TDB asking for help. In case you run into trouble, just go practice Qigong or Taiji to recover your body back to normalcy. However, it may take some time to reach the goal of practice.

This is the Yang style Taiji part of the 108 form.

19 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Question!
Is there any members here had accomplished the ultimate goal of Neidan? Why and how so? What are the changes that took place in the body? What do you think the ultimate goal of Neidan should be? What kind of result that one should be expected from the practice? Just tell us anything that you can think of.

Demo of the effect of breathing with sabre practice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBAHRqOtJDQ
 

51 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

If you say so ( I dont agree)

 

But by your own metric, you are basically judged to be wrong

 

 

 

 

Are you making a judgment?

Denying the truth doesn't make one to be correct.

On 8/26/2024 at 3:51 PM, Shadow_self said:

Chidragon, TT and one or two others on this site dont have the experience of Neidan etc or teachers or adhere to lineages like you or I do

 

They're happy going over chinese characters/ books etc (even if they're missing details we' consider important) 

I am flattered. I always knew that is very amusing in TDB forums by listening to the comments made by knowledgeable members. Some of the comments are debatable and some are laughable. Comments are to be judged by the majority. Some knew what is correct or what not. Some keep their silence and laugh in their hearts. However, whatever the case that might be，the truth will reveal itself.

On 7/13/2024 at 3:23 PM, Taoist Texts said:

my understanding is that of Daodejing 道生之，德畜之 meaning De is the same as Dao, just down the road. There is nothing else to it and De has nothing to do with neidan. Of course the dao de seminar sellers spew a bunch of garbage about de but they do that just to sell seminars.

道生之 is active

德畜之 is passive

Yes, 德 has nothing to do with 內丹(neidan).