on the path

Sorry old bean, what you've said doesn't logically add up!! I don't want to get into personal issues here which you seem to be determined to do now on at least four posts that I have put up, making it your private little task/vendetta to try show up some assumption you've got, really is becoming a harassment. I thought that given your post all about 'virtue' and that you cared so much about life and people that when it counts this really is all BS when it comes to anyone who you don't quite see eye to eye with or have a little chip on your shoulder about! I have told you who I am and it is quite easy to register a web site via someone else and post things on a website with someone else's name as long as it is a genuine name and address. I had the original book of Flowing Hands DDJ sent to me twenty years ago. I was fascinated by the whole thing especially with my own background. I realized that people on this website may never have heard of this site and I personally feel from my experiences in the far East and with my teacher that what Flowing Hands has to say is very important to get across. It is written in this original book that religion will be the downfall of this world. If Flowing Hands has been told this by his Immortal Masters, who can see into the future, then who are we to doubt him? My Master Yoon Kin Tong was consulted many times about future events when he had invited Huang Lao Xian Shi to come and those things came true. I believe this because of the experience I have had. Perhaps you lack this experience and knowledge, but I don't. Another point here is this, If you feel that I am Flowing Hands, then why are you addressing me with so much disrespect?? I would never address Master Tong as if I was some foolish idiot. Such a great Shaman as Flowing Hands should not be addressed in such a manner like you have done! Shamans are very dangerous and powerful humans, I know, I was with my master for many years. In ancient times people avoided at all cost to be rude or to be disrespectful towards them for fear of their lives. It's a good job that I'm not Flowing Hands isn't it!! The DDJ in my opinion, if you take the time to really fathom it out, is telling us to go back to a natural way of living and to give up religion and be just like every other life form that exists on this planet (following the way). So I am expressing just that view. There are many, many on this forum who express exactly the same opinion but I haven't seen you badgering them on posts that they have put up like a troll! Because it seems like you won't accept my truthful explanation and I am expecting more harassment in the future from you, this will be my last post on Tao Bums. A great shame because I've really enjoyed my time sharing opinions and some of my genuine teachings with others. You are such an idiot, because if I were really Flowing Hands, anyone with the slightest bit of sense, would have been overjoyed at the chance to communicate with such a genuine person, but all you've achieved is to drive them away. What have you gained from that?? As it is, you managed to drive an ordinary Kung Fu Master away with a vast experience of spiritual knowledge from a genuine Shaman Master. I didn't sign up to be harassed by someone who preaches virtue but doesn't appear to posses any!

Hi twiv, Cyber bullying is not a great thing to do. If you read my post about Immortals you will see that if anyone, I would believe in Huang Lao Xian Shi, as I have had the great honor in receiving his teachings through Master Yoon Kin Tong. Yoon Kin Tong had lots of other students as well as me, although I was his last. Flowing Hands believes in different Immortal Masters to me, do you equate that yet!!? Flowing Hands is another Shaman, I was the student of another shaman, like many people, I am very interested in shamanism, because my teachings come from a shaman directly from Huang Lao Xian shi. So get your facts right and get off my back ok! You are entitled to your opinion just as I am, that doesn't make you more right and me wrong does it?? Or are you the new enlightened one who will solve all the worlds problems with your rendition of 'virtue'? I read your post on virtue, most interesting especially in the light of what you've been saying here. You have your point of view I have mine we will agree to differ. I don't beleive you understand what you are talking about, human perspectives comes from all areas, particularly culture and religion, as the posts earlier show religion influences our lives even if we do not want it to or whether be believe in religion or not. Perhaps you could open your eyes and see more clearly than what you have seen already. What you have stated has cultural and religious undertones that you have been taught as a child and you have not even noticed them, but just continued in a way that you thought was right. So whether you like it or not, religion touches all of our lives and influences our perspectives and causes us to think and to act in a way that if we would not have, if that religion wasn't stuffed into us when we are at school etc. by our society, by our parents etc. then we may have a different view of the world. It is the influence of human nature at its very core that needs to change, which very much includes religious perspectives in my opinion because we are surrounded by them. I am not religious in the accepted sense although I do believe that Immortals exist, I couldn't be a shaman, even though I tried once, its not for everyone. People go to the temples sometimes every week and try but don't get accepted. It is a very difficult thing to do and be so I have come to understand, after many many years of training. If there are any moderators out there reading this, can you get this guy sorted he's becoming an assumptive pain in the arse!!

Hi HE, I think I get your drift I hope! Here is a specific Taoist method to awaken the shen brighten the qi and empty the mind. Sit comfortably, cup the hands together forming a tunnel in line with the lower dan Tien. Pull the lower da tien in slightly. Close the eyes. Be aware of the breath and count it in to three and out to three. Think and concentrate on nothing but the breath. Push out all other thoughts Once you can do without the counting you can just concentrate on the breathing Once past this stage one can begin to calm and open the mind Let the mind be still and open Let the shen be full, and the qi begin to stir. once finished open the eyes wide as possible and close them again then once more open the eyes as wide as possible and let them rest normally open. This is a specific Taoist meditation on opening shen, qi and mind, the three vital operators of the body.

What an uphill struggle!!!

Well I do believe that if you were to ask a lot of religious people from many different faiths about their attitudes towards the environment, towards their fellow beings and towards other life you may be surprised at how low their real spiritual values are in seeing life equally. Without seeing life equally how can one treasure all life and follow the natural way? How can one's actions be right if your religion thinks that animals are there for you to use and abuse? People who have no religion, care for the world and can have much better perspectives than religious people as well as having worse. But if your belief system tells you that all other life is not as valued as human life where are we going to end up? Exactly where we are now! I believe people and religion are the problem. There are some absolutely fantastic people who are not the least religious, there are some absolutely fantastic people who are spiritual. But I really haven't met any fantastic religious people who are not prejudice against others who are not of their religion. The JW's are a case to mention. Full of silly restrictive rules and prejudices, even down to whether a man should wear a beard or not. And yet their attitudes are taken up by millions of people around the world. JW's are not supposed to mix with any other religion or non religious people, only with their own kind. It is these such attitudes that one does very easily find in all sorts of spiritual paths that are their down fall and so the natural way is lost on rules and prejudice. I think people should follow natural law and give religion the boot!!!!

I think the trouble with religion is exactly what has been stated in a lot of these posts. No one agrees as to what faith or belief is right, there are so many rules and different perspectives that view the world differently. I think this is the great difficulty in our modern world. That's why I believe in the Dao and Immortals, but I don't beleive in one single God or one single path. For me the path is ever flowing, ever changing, like the great creativity of life. Kindness and morality are human inventions and human reactions to life's ups and downs they are not necessarily in keeping with the Dao. This is what I believe. I don't think the Dao has any room for religion, because otherwise everything would be flowing naturally, whereas we are intent on destroying our landscape, other life and ourselves. What would Lao Tzu say!!!

Flowing Hands: CHAPTER 64 If people knew of the ways of nature, and their hearts were simple, peace would be dear to them. Trouble can be easily overcome, because their lives are simple, and so their troubles are simple too. All things stem from something; knowing this, trouble can be avoided before it arises. Because the Sage knows of the ways of nature, he is freed from the bond of desire. He does not notice gold and jade. His ideas are open and yielding. He helps men find themselves when they are lost, and remains at one. So he leaves the Ten Thousand Things to follow their natural course.

Yes this is the Immortal. One can see him sometimes with a dragon!!

I'll tell you another of my experiences which you will probably not agree with? A young woman in Malaysia, believed in the Monkey God (Chi Tien Da Shun), she went to pray very often and burned incense at the local temple devoted to him. One evening she was walking back home and passed down a small alley. Five men appeared and surrounded her, she feared for her safety. The men started to grab her, she begged for help from Sun Wu Kong. She then lost consciousnesses and went into a trance, When she awoke from her trance she was standing in the alley still, all five men were laid out badly beaten up! Sun Wu Kong had come to her rescue!

Hi Suninmyeyes, thanks for the link, but I think they've got their information wrong. If you look at wikipedia under both Sun Wu Kong and Hannuman, they are completely different.

I don't think there is any connection, although the Monkey God in the story escorted the Buddhist monk to India and back to China with Buddhist scriptures. Rolly eyes are just happy!!

I think it is Sun Wu Kung, the famous Monkey God form the Hsi-yu Chi

Here is one of many interesting things that I experienced Back in the early 1980's. I was in South Korea with my Master, we visited many Buddhist temples there. We came across by chance a temple that was devoted to a lot of Daoist Immortals. Master tong said to me, "I was once visited by this Immortal here who taught me some Dragon martial art. It was a long time ago, I could beg him to come and ask him to show you his art! Shall I try?" So he went into the middle of the temple hall, prayed and then stood for some time, until suddenly he was off, displaying this beautiful Dragon martial art, Master Tong was gone but a Dragon had taken over his body it would seem, because he moved so powerfully, so like how one would think a dragon would move, so fluidly like a Dragon, that I didn't feel a human was there! The Immortal who came was Lu Ren Xian Shi, famous for his Dragon martial art.

On various posts I have explained that I am the student of a traditional Shaman, my Master is the student of Huang Lao Xian Shi (Old Yellow Immortal Master). If there are any Chinese members on this forum they may know of the Immortal Master. The history of Huang Lao is that he was a shaman and lived around 125 AD. He was a famous exorcist, swordsman, healer and martial artist. His temples are not really found in China itself (probably destroyed during the cultural revolution), but are found in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and wherever Chinese people have settled. He is sometimes linked with the Monkey God and Lao Tzu. Having received the teachings from Master Tong, he taught me Huang Lao's sword form and various other things, I have not heard from Master Tong for some time, as I am so to speak, 'come down the mountain'. To a lot of native Chinese these things are common, but to western people its seems extraordinary. The pursuit of spiritual Immortality and belief in Immortals and spirits is so strongly intertwined with all sorts of Daoist practices that this subject I feel should not be ignored. So without any rude or stupid replies please, (the Immortals may be looking!!!) I would be most interested in your thoughts on the whole subject in and around it and would like to hear from anyone who believes in any other Immortals. Marblehead need not reply due to his blood pressure!!!!