on the path

On various posts I have explained that I am the student of a traditional Shaman, my Master is the student of Huang Lao Xian Shi (Old Yellow Immortal Master). If there are any Chinese members on this forum they may know of the Immortal Master. The history of Huang Lao is that he was a shaman and lived around 125 AD. He was a famous exorcist, swordsman, healer and martial artist. His temples are not really found in China itself (probably destroyed during the cultural revolution), but are found in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and wherever Chinese people have settled. He is sometimes linked with the Monkey God and Lao Tzu. Having received the teachings from Master Tong, he taught me Huang Lao's sword form and various other things, I have not heard from Master Tong for some time, as I am so to speak, 'come down the mountain'. To a lot of native Chinese these things are common, but to western people its seems extraordinary. The pursuit of spiritual Immortality and belief in Immortals and spirits is so strongly intertwined with all sorts of Daoist practices that this subject I feel should not be ignored. So without any rude or stupid replies please, (the Immortals may be looking!!!) I would be most interested in your thoughts on the whole subject in and around it and would like to hear from anyone who believes in any other Immortals. Marblehead need not reply due to his blood pressure!!!!

Master Flowing Hands direct translation of Lao Tzu's Dao De Jhing. "In dealing with evil, let Heaven do the bidding. For Heaven can see all things and everything will find its just reward. In dealing with evil, seek the Daoist Shaman for he is in touch with Heaven and so is able to deal with evil. Evil is powerful, so avoid any conflict and leave well alone. Those that dabble in such things will only harm themselves and others. Then the shaman's job is made more difficult and he may lose his life. The shaman is a treasure to the people, for he calls up saints and immortals and when the people are starving, he opens up Heaven and beautiful rain will follow. He protects all things within a balance and performs selfless actions. He is a sage and is treasured by Heaven". Any thoughts, feelings etc?

Sorry old bean, what you've said doesn't logically add up!! I don't want to get into personal issues here which you seem to be determined to do now on at least four posts that I have put up, making it your private little task/vendetta to try show up some assumption you've got, really is becoming a harassment. I thought that given your post all about 'virtue' and that you cared so much about life and people that when it counts this really is all BS when it comes to anyone who you don't quite see eye to eye with or have a little chip on your shoulder about! I have told you who I am and it is quite easy to register a web site via someone else and post things on a website with someone else's name as long as it is a genuine name and address. I had the original book of Flowing Hands DDJ sent to me twenty years ago. I was fascinated by the whole thing especially with my own background. I realized that people on this website may never have heard of this site and I personally feel from my experiences in the far East and with my teacher that what Flowing Hands has to say is very important to get across. It is written in this original book that religion will be the downfall of this world. If Flowing Hands has been told this by his Immortal Masters, who can see into the future, then who are we to doubt him? My Master Yoon Kin Tong was consulted many times about future events when he had invited Huang Lao Xian Shi to come and those things came true. I believe this because of the experience I have had. Perhaps you lack this experience and knowledge, but I don't. Another point here is this, If you feel that I am Flowing Hands, then why are you addressing me with so much disrespect?? I would never address Master Tong as if I was some foolish idiot. Such a great Shaman as Flowing Hands should not be addressed in such a manner like you have done! Shamans are very dangerous and powerful humans, I know, I was with my master for many years. In ancient times people avoided at all cost to be rude or to be disrespectful towards them for fear of their lives. It's a good job that I'm not Flowing Hands isn't it!! The DDJ in my opinion, if you take the time to really fathom it out, is telling us to go back to a natural way of living and to give up religion and be just like every other life form that exists on this planet (following the way). So I am expressing just that view. There are many, many on this forum who express exactly the same opinion but I haven't seen you badgering them on posts that they have put up like a troll! Because it seems like you won't accept my truthful explanation and I am expecting more harassment in the future from you, this will be my last post on Tao Bums. A great shame because I've really enjoyed my time sharing opinions and some of my genuine teachings with others. You are such an idiot, because if I were really Flowing Hands, anyone with the slightest bit of sense, would have been overjoyed at the chance to communicate with such a genuine person, but all you've achieved is to drive them away. What have you gained from that?? As it is, you managed to drive an ordinary Kung Fu Master away with a vast experience of spiritual knowledge from a genuine Shaman Master. I didn't sign up to be harassed by someone who preaches virtue but doesn't appear to posses any!

Hi twiv, Cyber bullying is not a great thing to do. If you read my post about Immortals you will see that if anyone, I would believe in Huang Lao Xian Shi, as I have had the great honor in receiving his teachings through Master Yoon Kin Tong. Yoon Kin Tong had lots of other students as well as me, although I was his last. Flowing Hands believes in different Immortal Masters to me, do you equate that yet!!? Flowing Hands is another Shaman, I was the student of another shaman, like many people, I am very interested in shamanism, because my teachings come from a shaman directly from Huang Lao Xian shi. So get your facts right and get off my back ok! You are entitled to your opinion just as I am, that doesn't make you more right and me wrong does it?? Or are you the new enlightened one who will solve all the worlds problems with your rendition of 'virtue'? I read your post on virtue, most interesting especially in the light of what you've been saying here. You have your point of view I have mine we will agree to differ. I don't beleive you understand what you are talking about, human perspectives comes from all areas, particularly culture and religion, as the posts earlier show religion influences our lives even if we do not want it to or whether be believe in religion or not. Perhaps you could open your eyes and see more clearly than what you have seen already. What you have stated has cultural and religious undertones that you have been taught as a child and you have not even noticed them, but just continued in a way that you thought was right. So whether you like it or not, religion touches all of our lives and influences our perspectives and causes us to think and to act in a way that if we would not have, if that religion wasn't stuffed into us when we are at school etc. by our society, by our parents etc. then we may have a different view of the world. It is the influence of human nature at its very core that needs to change, which very much includes religious perspectives in my opinion because we are surrounded by them. I am not religious in the accepted sense although I do believe that Immortals exist, I couldn't be a shaman, even though I tried once, its not for everyone. People go to the temples sometimes every week and try but don't get accepted. It is a very difficult thing to do and be so I have come to understand, after many many years of training. If there are any moderators out there reading this, can you get this guy sorted he's becoming an assumptive pain in the arse!!

Hi HE, I think I get your drift I hope! Here is a specific Taoist method to awaken the shen brighten the qi and empty the mind. Sit comfortably, cup the hands together forming a tunnel in line with the lower dan Tien. Pull the lower da tien in slightly. Close the eyes. Be aware of the breath and count it in to three and out to three. Think and concentrate on nothing but the breath. Push out all other thoughts Once you can do without the counting you can just concentrate on the breathing Once past this stage one can begin to calm and open the mind Let the mind be still and open Let the shen be full, and the qi begin to stir. once finished open the eyes wide as possible and close them again then once more open the eyes as wide as possible and let them rest normally open. This is a specific Taoist meditation on opening shen, qi and mind, the three vital operators of the body.

What an uphill struggle!!!

Well I do believe that if you were to ask a lot of religious people from many different faiths about their attitudes towards the environment, towards their fellow beings and towards other life you may be surprised at how low their real spiritual values are in seeing life equally. Without seeing life equally how can one treasure all life and follow the natural way? How can one's actions be right if your religion thinks that animals are there for you to use and abuse? People who have no religion, care for the world and can have much better perspectives than religious people as well as having worse. But if your belief system tells you that all other life is not as valued as human life where are we going to end up? Exactly where we are now! I believe people and religion are the problem. There are some absolutely fantastic people who are not the least religious, there are some absolutely fantastic people who are spiritual. But I really haven't met any fantastic religious people who are not prejudice against others who are not of their religion. The JW's are a case to mention. Full of silly restrictive rules and prejudices, even down to whether a man should wear a beard or not. And yet their attitudes are taken up by millions of people around the world. JW's are not supposed to mix with any other religion or non religious people, only with their own kind. It is these such attitudes that one does very easily find in all sorts of spiritual paths that are their down fall and so the natural way is lost on rules and prejudice. I think people should follow natural law and give religion the boot!!!!

I think the trouble with religion is exactly what has been stated in a lot of these posts. No one agrees as to what faith or belief is right, there are so many rules and different perspectives that view the world differently. I think this is the great difficulty in our modern world. That's why I believe in the Dao and Immortals, but I don't beleive in one single God or one single path. For me the path is ever flowing, ever changing, like the great creativity of life. Kindness and morality are human inventions and human reactions to life's ups and downs they are not necessarily in keeping with the Dao. This is what I believe. I don't think the Dao has any room for religion, because otherwise everything would be flowing naturally, whereas we are intent on destroying our landscape, other life and ourselves. What would Lao Tzu say!!!

Flowing Hands: CHAPTER 64 If people knew of the ways of nature, and their hearts were simple, peace would be dear to them. Trouble can be easily overcome, because their lives are simple, and so their troubles are simple too. All things stem from something; knowing this, trouble can be avoided before it arises. Because the Sage knows of the ways of nature, he is freed from the bond of desire. He does not notice gold and jade. His ideas are open and yielding. He helps men find themselves when they are lost, and remains at one. So he leaves the Ten Thousand Things to follow their natural course.

Yes this is the Immortal. One can see him sometimes with a dragon!!

I'll tell you another of my experiences which you will probably not agree with? A young woman in Malaysia, believed in the Monkey God (Chi Tien Da Shun), she went to pray very often and burned incense at the local temple devoted to him. One evening she was walking back home and passed down a small alley. Five men appeared and surrounded her, she feared for her safety. The men started to grab her, she begged for help from Sun Wu Kong. She then lost consciousnesses and went into a trance, When she awoke from her trance she was standing in the alley still, all five men were laid out badly beaten up! Sun Wu Kong had come to her rescue!

Hi Suninmyeyes, thanks for the link, but I think they've got their information wrong. If you look at wikipedia under both Sun Wu Kong and Hannuman, they are completely different.

I don't think there is any connection, although the Monkey God in the story escorted the Buddhist monk to India and back to China with Buddhist scriptures. Rolly eyes are just happy!!

I think it is Sun Wu Kung, the famous Monkey God form the Hsi-yu Chi

Here is one of many interesting things that I experienced Back in the early 1980's. I was in South Korea with my Master, we visited many Buddhist temples there. We came across by chance a temple that was devoted to a lot of Daoist Immortals. Master tong said to me, "I was once visited by this Immortal here who taught me some Dragon martial art. It was a long time ago, I could beg him to come and ask him to show you his art! Shall I try?" So he went into the middle of the temple hall, prayed and then stood for some time, until suddenly he was off, displaying this beautiful Dragon martial art, Master Tong was gone but a Dragon had taken over his body it would seem, because he moved so powerfully, so like how one would think a dragon would move, so fluidly like a Dragon, that I didn't feel a human was there! The Immortal who came was Lu Ren Xian Shi, famous for his Dragon martial art.

I Haven't said it can't be done, have I? I don't believe putting fakers up from you tube and expecting everyone to think its marvelous is a wonderful thing to do! You can be fooled just the same as the rest of us can, the mind and body can make you experience many different things that are not necessarily real or true. That's how hypnotist work! How do we know what you've experienced is real especially when you put up obvious fakers for us to think is wonderful? You shouldn't be so naive! It appears to me that you've been sucked in to the whole thing, fakers and all!! It seems to me from your other posts that you have some real issues with anyone else who doesn't agree with you and what you think is real and right also. And so I can't be bothered trying to make you see that there is another view out there that doesn't involve an obsession with fakers, and master this and master that, who gives a shit about them(ref: to stigs thread) I don't think it will get anyone anywhere being able to burn paper if they really can. They still could be the worst person one could ever meet. So go stroke your own stupid ego!!

Back to Lao Tzu's chapter 60 In the DDJ, I think it has many themes running through it, which to my way of thinking one is the 'spirit'. It deals with vital energy and the energy of life ect. In this chapter of Flowing Hands, the shaman is directly talked about because a shaman is dealing with the energy of life present and life gone. This makes the whole. Without the whole how can we have balance? Yin and yang make the balance, the spirit of the dead are life's balance. Immortals are enlightened beings that make the balance of unenlightened beings. I once joined a Taoist society run by Taoist priests. It was terrible!!!! I couldn't wait for my membership to elapse. I then learn't that Taoist religion was completely different from the shamanistic teachings that I had received from my teacher. They are completely different things, the shamanistic teachings I received were based on Lao Tzu philosophy and every day life with no set rules at all. Taoist religion is based on the Taoist cannon (which I don't care for at all!!) and many rules and regulations that are beyond belief! I wouldn't be surprised if anyone was put off by the religious side.

Why bother starting a post if you appear to know all the answers?? No reply will change your point of view it would seem? The mind is a most powerful thing it can very easily fool you!

Hi oat1239, A lot of Daoist sects use the 'sword' fingers for extending the qi or fa, there appears to be many hand forms to extend qi or fa. From my own practices, qi or fa cannot be extended to a small point from that distance shown in the video, only from a small distance away from the object or person. This master in the video does not show any sign of the effort it takes to extend the qi powerfully. Let me put it scientifically; when a person has developed their qi over many years of cultivation 30+ at least, their electricity/ volts in their body is much higher and stronger than normal. When one extends this energy powerfully, it takes an enormous amount of effort to do this. The person will be exhausted afterwards, for every living cell in their body will be excited and the energy will be released. A very strong heart is needed which is developed over the many years of practice. The one person who I have seen who I think is not a fake is the Chang qi gong master who demonstrates burning the paper, you will notice that he has to put his hand very near the paper not from a distance, the burn is wide even though his hand is so near, which goes back to my original point of qi extends in a cone shape not in a tiny line like a laser. In China and Chinese thinking, if you can do these sort of things means your status in the community is much higher than anyone else. Since the relaxation of religion by the communist gov. People have appeared by magic out of the woodwork and people are really excited by this sort of thing. To the Chinese a higher status is far better than lots of money, although far more business comes if your well respected and looked up to.

Hey old timer!!!, hehe, did you know that Lao Tzu was being offered blessings and believed to be a great Immortal in around 165AD? and the Fang Shih or wu were around many thousands of years before this, moving from the north of Siberia to northern China, spreading down south and reaching southeast Asia. Here is a picture of my Master a modern day Shaman who believes in Huang Lao Xian Shi. Huang Lao Xian Shi's temples are found mostly in south east asia, places like signapore, malaysia Hong kong Etc. I took this photo of Master Tong back in the 1980's.

I don't buy it either, watch carefully the so called master's finger when he starts the small burn, it is at a different angle. As the burn ignites he moves his finger to point at the burn! I bet that hidden behind the black box is a small surgical laser which is very controllable. Note also the positioning of where the paper is placed to burn, very near a desk. It is a fake there are a lot of these fakes coming out of China at the moment. Fact; one cannot concentrate the qi to a fine point over even a small distance, it will naturally want to form a ball or cone shape in the atmosphere. His body tells me he is not extending his qi.

Hi, Its good to get a women's perspective on this!! I've been trying to show how wonderful you women are and can enjoy relations without losing your jing. If anything, women were the first species not men, it only makes sense! It is because women carry their eggs for new life long before they are born, their jing then has been passed onto them by their mothers and fathers. These are already made. During women's life time these eggs are released as we know, but the action of menstruation does not affect the jing that was given to them by their ancestors, because its already there. Men on the other hand, draw on their jing as soon as they start to produce semen. The more semen they lose the more the body has to draw on the jing to make more. So as a consequence if men want to develop their qi, which the driving force is jing, one has to conserve it to start off with. This is a very traditional practice and is frequently observed and written about in many accounts of qi development. That's it no more from me on the subject!!!

Its terrible getting old we'll soon become ghosts ourselves !!!!!!! We can then consult lord Lao in person and ask him about his DDJ !!!!