on the path

Hi I feel that what we have here is simply stated, accessible to most ordinary people and gives a clear and simple explanation of what is a very difficult concept to understand. There is no concept about God, but quite clearly stated that any life can become divine and the mystery is there in front of our very own eyes. All we are required is to abide by the very simple rules that the way has led us to through evolution. We cannot put a name to the Dao "I call it Dao for lack of a better word" but we know that it exists as it has created all that we can see and feel. So I feel that chapter one is simply stating that parallels between universal life force and the creation of matter. One can be seen the other can be 'felt'.

Twenty years ago I obtained a copy of the Dao De King from Kindred Spirit magazine in the UK. These books were given away free. In the pages of this book a prophecy was given about the way the world was going and a warning that we were heading towards destroy ourselves. The Dao De King presented, was a version that was obtained directly from Lao Tzu By shaman Flowing Hands. Lao Tzu being one of his masters. It seems a rather bizarre thing but subsequent research of religious Daoism revealed very strong pockets of traditional Daoist shamanism in areas like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia etc. Where Lao Tzu is revered as a top Immortal. Such shamans are often seen in the Temples in complete trances of Daoist Gods and Goddess's. Earlier this year I came across his web site by Google-ing his name. On his site My link this message is further given timing and a form. His version of the Dao De King can be downloaded. The question I ask is can we believe what he is saying or not? What can we do about it? Is he and what he has to say making him the most Improtant Daoist in modern times?

Hi all, Here is Flowing Hands version. The Dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless, is the Mother of Heaven and Earth. The named is the manifestations of the Ten Thousand Things. Ever desireless, one can feel (heart) the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see its manifestations. These two are born from the same source, but differ in form; one appears as imperceptible, infinity upon infinity. Here lies the path of all mystery. It really puts up a completely different emphasis. To me it is saying that if we try and describe, name and tell of the way we are really wasting our time, because it is constantly changing. But what we can describe is the physical things that then manifest from the Dao. He then speaks of the spiritual path of the Dao and of the heart, it being the essence of unlocking the mysteries of the Dao. "desire less" meaning that of shedding human desires etc leaving the heart open to understanding. "desire", meaning with normal desire one then only sees the physical manifestations. One spiritual the other material born from the same source. A clue to the great mystery.

Hi, Just add my favorite version of the DDJ from Flowing hands here to add to the discussion. He who is at one with the Dao experiences all things, therefore the Sage is whole; he experiences the union of man and woman, so he knows of the ways of mankind. Without this, he is not following the way of nature. The Sage is one of the ten thousand things, but his grip on the Dao is firm. Having experienced all things, he can obtain enlightenment. Through enlightenment, he can become Divine. Knowing balance and harmony is insight into constancy. Do not complicate your life. This only causes stress and fatigue and ill-health will surely follow. This is not the way of Dao. Dwell in simplicity and enjoy a contended, peaceful life. Whatever goes against the Dao will never last. I think what is written is self explanatory,but is certainly different from the other translations.

Hi Rene, I think some great ideas have come out of the two pages!! For me 'De' signifies the power of the heart;'Dao Hsin', its capacity for great love, for surely this in the end is our path to enlightenment. A love of all things at one with the Dao.

Hi Marblehead, thanks for your reply, how do you mean by adding? Any one can download Flowing Hands Dao De Jhing from his site. Do you mean add the version to each discussion on each chapter? It might be an idea to start a fresh topic about his whole site, considering what he is saying about the future to come. I think there is a lot we all could discuss about it under another heading. I must see if I can scan in a copy of the front and back cover of his original book. Most interesting, because he says that Lao Tzu wrote down the very calligraphy on the front cover.

Yes you have your points there but of course when the Dao De Jhing was written life was far more simpler, very few rules etc. so one could more easily follow the 'way'. As Lao Tzu says we must go back to a more simple life with little rules, allowing people to follow the way of 'De'. It is I feel just as relevant today as it was 2600 years ago. And ones so called rules come from 'De'. De comes from the Dao.

Hi all, another thought occurred to me, 'virtue cannot exist in Daoism because as Daoist we follow the Dao. There are no rules, no virtues, no laws, no ethics, no morals etc. for when there are the great perversion begins!! De means to me the way of the essential energy that has manifested itself from the universe and beyond and stored itself in the heart!!! We are then guided by this.

Hi Just thought I would add my little thoughts to the discussion about 'de'. When I got the original book from the UK of Flowing Hands (there must be thousands around the world still), the title of the Dao De Jhing Which interestingly he called 'King' meant 'the sacred book of the way and its heart'. So the word 'De' although literally translated means 'virtue', Flowing Hands says that it actually means nearer to what we know as 'heart'. But the word 'hsin' does not appear. He also says that the word Dao should be written to be more accurate like 'Dow'. One notices in Master Flowing Hands direct version that the word 'heart' is used a lot. In many Temples of the Dao, the words 'Dao hsin' are used, 'Daoist heart'. The heart being the most important vessel in spiritual practices.

Hi, it occurs to me that Lao Tzu (Lei Erh Xian Shi) in this chapter is basically telling us that the universe, life etc is all one inter-connected pool of matter and energy. This is the reason why we feel differently from one day to another and that this is natural and we must accept these things as part of being alive whoever we are. There seems to me to be many threads running through the Dao De Jhing. One of the sage who has gained more knowledge and is cultivating the Dao within themselves and the other, of not interfering with the way things are and so not creating imbalance. There is also,I feel, the secret of Immortality written in this book for those who understand. It is a work, I feel, that has not been surpassed by any other Daoist writer in its simplicity and the imparting of real understanding and knowledge. Again I refer back to Master Flowing Hands book which for me simply takes away the inconsistencies and misunderstandings of being transcribed so many times since 600bc. His version is not a version as such, it is I believe, the true words of Lao Tzu. I quote from his book "a lot of what is written of his philosophy today has been wrongly translated, the meaning lost and not a true guide". This original book was available free some twenty years ago, I got mine from Kindred Spirit magazine in the UK.

Hi, Here is Flowing hands version that is said to have come directly from Lao Tzu himself. Between birth and death, men live their lives in different ways. Some are followers of the Dao. Some are followers of the ways of mankind. Some are followers of greed and lust. Some are followers of evil. Why is this? Because man has sought to change things and interfere. So he has upset the balance within himself and others. The Sage knows this and rejects that. He knows the ways of the ten thousand things as well as man. Thus he can live in harmony with all things and all men. The tiger will not attack him, men will not seek to wound him. He makes no room for death to enter.

Hi all, I've been reading your posts and thought I might add this to the discussion. This book came out some twenty years ago and was given free by a then Daoist Foundation. It is a translation of Lao Tzu Dao De Jhing that has come from or should I say through a Daoist Shaman, Flowing Hands. His version of chapter 49 goes thus The Sage is at one with the Dao, his mind is open and uncluttered. He is aware of all things. By having an open mind, he can act naturally, and so he treats people and all things equally. Like the Dao, he shows no preference. The Sage appears quiet, humble and elusive. If menseek it in their hearts, they can find contentment by listening and watching the Sage. I wondered after all these years what has happened to this version and the Master who gave us this version and then I came across his website www.life-in-crisis.info his direct translation can be downloaded from this site. You can see that a lot of the chapters are so different to what is written by translators. In the original book it is said that the reason for Flowing Hands being given this by Lao Tzu was because his original version in 600bc has lost a lot of its meaning!

Hi, my first experience of Taoist writings was Gia-Fu-Feng's inner chapters of Chuang Tzu. Out of all the translations of the Tao te ching I like Gia-fu-feng's the best. There is another translation which can be downloaded for free on the life-in-crisis.info web site which is supposedly a true translation directly from Lao Tzu through the Shaman Flowing Hands. After reading it there are some chapters that are completely different to any others I've ever read!

Hi thanks rainbow_vein for your thread. I found some other sites and information also, but they all talk about the external/internal practices and not the spirit based encounters of 'ancestor worship' that I encountered in the far east. There doesn't seem to be a great deal of information out there about the spirit based practices of the Daoist shaman, apart from the site I mentioned My link where the Holyman is definitely practicing as a true shaman and is saying some scary stuff about the future. Has anyone else seen this site or know anything about it or the practicing Shaman, Flowing Hands? My thoughts were; he's obviously not saying what he says for money nor for fame, unlike our Californian Christian preacher who predicted the end of the world and got it wrong, thank goodness!! There is no way of contacting him or can we see what he looks like properly. Lets hope this chap is wrong also!!!? I saw a piece about some Taoist Holyman who had conned many people out of money etc and then used tricks to fool thousands of people into believing in him before he was found out!

Hi, I've just joined as a new member and wondered whether anyone knows much about Daoist shamanism? I found one site www.life-in-crisis.info which is a daoist holyman predicting a nuclear war to come. Quite scary. Look forward to anyone with any thoughts.