tulku

Yes I agree. Indonesia has a much richer heritage of yogic and martial arts than China, HK, Japan and Korea.

Yes I realize that there are many chinese qigong masters and students in here who are clearly offended by what I say. How would you feel if I say you have wasted so much time and energy in learning something useless? But the truth hurts, I must say, and when a more superior school appears, one must put his own ego aside and bow down to the more superior school.

I hope the Chinese people in here are not offended by what I say. There are some skillful Chinese Internal Energy masters. But Chinese Internal Arts require contact to transmit their power while Indonesian Internal Arts can transmit their power over a distance and more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awqQVPtwA68&feature=related So I fear that there is no point learning any Chinese Internal Arts as it is a lower school compared to the Indonesian Internal Arts.

You are right. The highest neigong system is to be found in SEA, especially the system of Tenaga Dalam. Even John Chang was based in Indonesia. Most Chinese masters are only good at some psychic trickery but even the more powerful Chinese masters are hardly as powerful as some really powerful SEA masters yet the Chinese demand much more money than them. I heard of some Chinese spiritual "masters" ending up as tour guides who bring their students to the real SEA masters in return for a fee. I believe this is what a certain Dr Verdesi is doing as well.

Magic can be used for both healing and dark purposes. For more information on Daoist Black Magick, please purchase Daoist Sorcery books from Jeffrey Alan Johnson. His books have some real informative histories on Daoist Black Sorcerers. If you can cast black magick, then you would have learn to heal as well. So I insist on my thesis. That the SEA wizards are much more powerful than the Chinese/HK wizards.

I am making a petition to thetaobums to change their name to thetenagabums to reflect the superiority of Tenega Dalam over Taoist Qigong.

True Qigong masters do not have to do all these elaborate movements found in taichi to call up their power. They can just shoot energy out of their hands and push their enemies away like the below two Indonesian Qigong masters. I highly doubt if any Chinese master can create an Energy Wall projection like how the Indo Qigong masters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCS7MzWXiw There are even bloody public competitions in SEA on how to use your qigong to prevent a light bulb from breaking. Face it, Chinese/Japanese/Korean gigong arts are nowhere near the level of the Indonesian qigong arts.

Yes this reminds me of this kiai master who was displaying similar feats with his japanese students and was bragging about how he would take on any mma artist and giving money to them if he was defeated. Turns out, he was trashed by a novice karate student within 1 minute. Face it, there ain't any real masters in the Japanese, Korean, China regions anymore. Most of them are in SEA.

There are very very few powerful Chinese masters in the world anymore compared to the frequency and power level of South East Asian masters. I have yet to see any Chinese master meditate in a pot of boiling oil or even blow away attackers like the Tenaga Dalaam student. Let's face it, Chinese spiritual power is weak compared to SEA.

It only works if you are emotionally charged to attack the student.. if you are just walking besides the student but with no aggressive intent.. it is quite impossible for you to fly away. Speaking of which, there is this famous kiai or japanese inner energy master who was put down by a karate student. I think the real spiritual masters are not to be found in developed first world countries but rather in developing third world countries like Indonesia or Thailand or the rest of SEA. I don't think any Chinese, Korean, Japanese, HK, Taiwanese master can hold a candle to masters living in more backwards SEA region whether it be inner energy arts or spirituality. Boiling Oil Meditation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p50Ktzso9rc&feature=related I have heard of stories of HK or Taiwanese taoist masters who have to run to SEA to look for help when faced with some really black magick. These few videos really highlight why.

The explainations of thogal and trekkod can even be found free on the net if you look hard enough. Nevertheless, there exists enough tibetan centres in almost every country in the world that if you take the time and effort to approach these lamas and work with them, they would teach you these secrets without demanding lots of money like the taoists. The Sakya also teaches their secrets to anyone who is willing to spend time and effort learning from them without demanding financial and other types of tributes. In short, most taoist masters are like robber baron families of the spiritual world. Just look at the Hong Kong Taoist masters. They charge at least a few thousand USD for just one course. I know of one very famous HK Taoist master who charge 5000 USD just for one course on Taoist Talismans. That course is just Level 1 on Taoist Talismans and there are more levels to learn after Level 1. So you can imagine how much money this Taoist Master is raking in. I see that you lack the good fortune to learn from the highest cultivators (not neccessarily tibetan) in the world which explains your ignorance in this field. The highest spiritual achievement in any and all traditions is the state of jalus. All the other spiritual and psychic gifts are just distractions and side-trips on one's journey to attaining jalus. Just go ask the highest taoist masters in asia. If they don't even know the value of jalus, then there's no point in even talking to these "experienced" cultivators. So lots of people pay good money to experienced taoist masters like wang liping and they end up with nothing in return. Nothing even remotely approaching Jalus. At least Mantak Chia doesn't charge so much for his books and DVDs unlike other Taoist masters and his works does include the teachings of the state of jalus. Even though there is no scientific proof yet that his system does work but at least it is a beginning and a road-map. But these other taoist masters, they charge so much for their knowledge yet there is no scientific proof that their system works. Where are the hairs and nails of previous Taoist adepts who achieved Jalus? So if there is no evidence, why is anyone foolish enough to spend so much money on unproven systems? I am going to go out on a limb here and say that even John Chang's Mo Pai is not as high as the Tibetan Dzogchen Teachings. Why do I say this? Because Mo Pai has not offered any scientific proof that their previous masters has achieved any spirtual attainments to the level of Jalus. But if any Taoist adepts are willing to prove me wrong by showing me the level of enlightenment which their previous Masters have accomplished, I am always ready to eat humble pie.

I must be wrong about them achieving partial jalus. Those two lamas did achieve jalus with remainder because their bodies turn gold after their deaths. The Taoist adepts are not concerned with displaying their abilities but they might as well be non-existent to the general public. Until I see evidence that that are Taoist adepts who have achieved the same degree of spiritual achievement as the Vajrayana Buddhists, I wouldn't hesitate to say that Taoism is a lesser vehicle compared to Vajrayana Buddhism. Of course, I could be proven wrong in the future. As I said before, if Mantak Chia and his students turn into light one day, it will show me that Taoism is a system which does work but until that day, I will always maintain that Taoism is a lesser vehicle compared to Tibtean Buddhism.

As great as Buddha was, I like to point out the fact that Buddha didn't actually achieve jalus in his lifetime. He grew old and died. But many other lamas who were born after the Buddha did achieve Jalus. One of them went by the name Padmasambhava. For the taoists in here who doubt me when I say that Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism practitioners have achieved far more than Taoist adepts, please do click on the following pictures and examine carefully these lamas and nuns who have achieved partial Jalus. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://konga.myweb.hinet.net/images/tutor1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/bbmm680920/article%3Fmid%3D146&usg=__rMS7kk0G_xjxpT0RSh1Zl4lgs1g=&h=1222&w=796&sz=369&hl=en&start=2&zoom=1&tbnid=Lfc-6XLEo_nDIM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=98&ei=mY_wTevNHIy-sAPA5P2pDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E9%2587%2591%25E5%2588%259A%25E4%25B8%258D%25E5%259D%258F%25E8%25BA%25AB%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1291%26bih%3D560%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://slz.goodweb.cn/imgs/ganzhu.jpg&imgrefurl=http://slz.goodweb.cn/sheli_5.asp&usg=__MHooXcO6jltUfUnTUvwgcxiTJiQ=&h=454&w=327&sz=42&hl=en&start=17&zoom=1&tbnid=IIjfQyMjgY1cZM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=92&ei=mY_wTevNHIy-sAPA5P2pDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E9%2587%2591%25E5%2588%259A%25E4%25B8%258D%25E5%259D%258F%25E8%25BA%25AB%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1291%26bih%3D560%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1 Lamas who have achieved full jalus. Observe the remants of their hair on the altar after they have completed the jalus process. http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/nine_sky99/article?mid=1210&prev=1211&next=1209 The proof is in the pudding. I have yet to see any school of Taoism accomplish such remarkable feats repeatedly.

There might be some taoist teachings before the age of the buddha which were codified in a systematic manner but they were very well-hidden and cloistered within secret esoteric societies. This is the problem with the chinese, not only chinese in china but chinese elsewhere in the world as well. They hide the most important spiritual teachings so well that these teachings might as well be non-existent to the general public. Look at John Chang and Mo Pai. He is a great example of how selfish most chinese people are. The Chinese reserve the secret teachings for their own families and inner circle of friends and relatives so if you aren't lucky enough to reincarnate into such an inner circle, tough luck! You should say that Buddhism, especially Vajrayana Buddhism, should be the first codified school of buddhahood which is open to the public. And Buddhism does not demand its students to pay exhorbitant sums of money unlike the taoists. This is the major reason why the core of Buddhism teachings has managed to survive despite too many tribulations in the past. This is also why you can't easily find authentic Taoist teachings available to the general public nowadays. Of course some in here might quote Wang Liping and Mantak Chia but seriously, Mantak Chia has only appeared on the scene within the last few decades and Wang Liping? Man I only heard of this guy since last year. Not to knock on Mantak Chia or Wang Liping but how many of their students have achieved buddhahood or reached the tao or whatever you called enlightenment? On the other hand, Buddhism has had a number of figures who had achieved buddhahood. Taoism? The only things which Taoist magick is good for are career, family, love and all these other material things in life. But if you want enlightenment or buddhahood, most Taoist shamans are just gonna shrug their shoulders and say the art of immortality or getting the tao is only a legend. So if anyone in here want a certified, proven, method of attaining buddhahood, I would say buddhism is the only way to go. Unless Mantak Chia and his students start transforming their bodies into light on youtube. Then I will say, Wow! Taoism has finally established a proven system of buddhahood. Buddhahood=Getting the Tao=Enlightenment

Does Taoism teach us to transcend death and suffering? Teach me please. I find Buddhism teaches us to let go of attachments and sufferings and even death but Taoism teaches us to accept and embrace death and suffering as part of life.

Let's compare all our experiences of meditation and life together.