fatguyslim

Very difficult decision to make... I am not sure what advice I can give as it is beyond my means to help you. Thanks for choosing this forum to ask this real life question though... Very intrigued as what your final decision would be!!!

Again what a nice way to describe it... Thank you

I think Harmonious Emptiness explained it very well... "Everything" you just summed the chapter 41 for me Please don't attack the text if you don't understand the meaning... I bet there is not even a single person on the forum who can say I know what is right and wrong, good and bad, true and false in this messed up 21st Century! Stop making examples and stop making judgements... DO YOU THINK GOOD AND BAD IS EASY TO FATHOM?

Well said mate I am humbled by your statement... I think if goodness is talked about then there is no fault instead that brings virtue even in weakness but it has to be true goodness and not the fake goodness where people just try to convince themselves of something that they believe in. I think this kinda agrees with what you replied to Harmonious Emptiness in the comment above. Cheers

Yes it will be, I am currently tying Understanding reality by Thomas cleary and I have "The Essential Tao" completed few months ago. If you want them then let me know your email address by sending me a private message. Cheers

It's true what you are saying here and we are not at the stage where there anything to hide anyway (we are not enlightened). The fact is Tao is all about open practice with truthfulness and intent as its driving force. Its hidden when one has achieved it, but before that students all over the world are going to investigate the true principles which cannot happen as Liu would say without poking every subtlety. So yeah you are allowed to ask questions, there is nothing to hide for any of us (if we do hide then we hiding our acquired habits that's all). This is what I believe lol

Which text is this from?

I just found out from my friend that it is a small book of like 20 pages and its in one of the Taoist classics from Thomas Cleary. He is going to send me the scanned pages soon. So I will be able to put it in text form and share it with you if you want?

I am... FAULTY. If I add more to this, then I add more to my faultiness!!!

The Yin convergence is mentioned both in Understanding Reality and Awakening to the Tao. In Understanding Reality Liu mentions the importance of both Tao Te Ching and The Yin convergence. Thats why I have been looking for it lol.

I was wondering you can tell me where can I find "The Yin Convergence" by the Yellow emperor? I have never heard of the book Yellow Emperor's prescription for summer. Where can I find these texts? I am glad you came along to help me mate. Look forward to more conversations in the future. Cheers

He not only mentions about sexual energy but also all the other practices, including yoga, breathing exercises, kundalini and even sitting in quietude. I know he comes from the Buddhist and Confucius background but if you see how got onto the path is very interesting. In his book Awakening to the Tao he even says that he has seen both true and false Taoism which indicates that after being sent away by his first teacher to fulfill moral duties Liu I-ming travelled all over China in Confusion (he even says that he regretted leaving his first teacher for which he suffered 20 years of confusion). Exactly thats why I was stressing on the fact about finding a true teacher in my previous posts because he doesn't really reveal the mechanism. I mean in all fairness who would actually do that? Chang Po-tuan did it three times and in return he lost it three times. It wasn't till he was in his 80s that Chang Po-tuan received it again from his 4th master. I have to be honest this is what I do most of the time too. I try to focus on what I do rather than regretting it later on. Of course there are many things that I do which are not not well thought of (mainly things that I desire like doing Parkour, music, showing off flips and what not) and after I do them I don't even realise what I did was appropriate or not. Its just that when I read the text again it clicks to me like "ahh thats what I did when I was doing such and such..." Aye its the same with me... When I am around few and few people, I tend to enjoy the nature and its magical beings but I guess thats not what I should do. I do let go of the fire when I get distracted by my own version of beauty and also when I do things that I overly enjoy. I don't think there is anything wrong in enjoying something but I am sure when I do certain things its not in harmony with the path (I could be wrong and it would helpful if you can shine some light on this). Everything that you have just mentioned here is powerful stuff!!! Thanks again buddy

I think you are BANG ON mate!!! Detachment is not getting out of it but rather being in midst of it. We lose our greatest working tool if we detach ourselves from others (thats what I believe lol). Its like how Liu I-Ming says, "Guiding desires from disharmony to harmony so that the desires softens, vanishes or transforms." Of course all of what you mentioned like baseball, flowers, coffee and poetry is the Tao without it we are trying to cook an empty pot lol.

I am glad that you have achieved a higher state of understanding in your life but I have few words from the sage called Huang Yuan-ch'i taken from the Introduction of the I Ching (The Taoist I Ching by Thomas Cleary). It says... "People are happy when there is quiet and vexed when there is commotion. Don't they realise that since their energy has already been stirred by the clamor of people's voices and the involvements and disturbances of people and affairs, rather than use this power to be annoyed at the commotion, it is better to use this power to cultivate stability. An ancient said, "When people are in the midst of the disturbance, this is a good time to apply effort to keep independent." Stay comprehensively alert in the immediate present, and suddenly an awakening will open up an experience in the midst of it all that is millions of times better than that of quiet sitting. whenever you encounter people making a commotion, whether it concerns you or not, use it to polish and strengthen yourself, like gold being refined over and over until it no longer changes colour. If you gain power in this, it is much better than long drawn-out practice in quietude." I am not aiming to be better than anyone or take shortcuts... I am just going by the text I read and what I have read so far has accorded immensely with what I have believed since I was very little (When I think of my childhood I get glimpses of being more powerful than my current state of being). I have no current experience to say I am practicing the Tao the right way or maybe I am too stupid to even think that I am doing a practice. I do love hearing people share their experiences in whatever they practice and never once have I imagined what it would feel like to experience such experiences. I do love your words on how you don't experience any emotions, desires, thoughts etc. But does that stay the same when you are around people or when you are dreaming while asleep? Cheers

I have one important question to all of you and I am not sure what reply I might get so just before I put my question forward, I would like to share some words. I believe everyone here has been practicing one practice or the other for a long period of time. May it be meditation (I am from originally from India and when I was little I was taught the meditation is something that one should close their eyes and still their thoughts but you might have a different definition which I would love to here), Qigong, breathing exercises, yoga or some other physical practice. So since I was kid I have always been pushed away from most of these exercises (mainly because the religion was forced on me from a very young age). I have to be true I haven't most of them because the text I read doesn't suggest I should. I am only 24 and I believe my life experience is nothing compared to yours, so I would love to hear what you have to say after you read my question. My main purpose on this forum is to learn... So with no disrespect to anyone, my question to everyone is. Is there anyone on this forum who practices the Tao without deliberately closing their eyes for few hours a day, without concentrating their mind on various organs inside the physical body, without worrying too much about the health and well being of the physical body, without forcing the Tao, without thinking that one could achieve Tao all by oneself, without going away from society to practice the Tao, without and god knows how many other withouts that I can't think of at the moment? I am being overly forward here because I am in a lot of confusion which I want to get rid off one step at a time. Now I urge you not to reply in just words, metaphors or complicated English (I am an Indian and I have to be honest I am not that good in English). Please give me your life experience and I will learn from that... Thanks and I look forward to your reply

Hey guys, I have got a serious question from the Taoist I Ching (commentary by Liu I-ming) translated by Thomas Cleary. I read the hexagram number 34 called Great Power few days ago and I stumbled upon something by Liu I-Ming which I think he has never revealed before (or maybe he has and I never understood in the past). In this hexagram he comments on the top yin as follows "Top yin: The ram running into the fence cannot retreat, cannot go ahead; there is no benefit. Struggle will produce good results. EXPLANATION If one is ignorant and acts arbitrarily, indulges in guesswork and goes off on tangents, a lifetime of studies will after all be useless. This is like a ram having run into a fence, unable to retreat or go ahead. At the culmination of action, disaster has already developed, so it is impossible to pull out of it; at the end of an affair, it is too late for regret - how can one go on to success? Unable to withdraw, unsuccessful in going ahead, one's whole life is wasted - what benefit is there? So for people who are weak and lack capability, rather than apply power by themselves and get hurt in the process, it is better to quickly empty the mind and seek a teacher. Studying when stumped, exerting effort to practice what is learned, working intensively while struggling through difficulty, not worrying about not reaching the realm of great power - this is originally not being powerful yet becoming powerful through resort to what is right." Now I urge you guys to share what you think about the line "it is better to quickly empty the mind and seek a teacher." I always believed that to empty the mind is also something what a teacher can explain. But after reading this it has cleared many doubts in my mind and now how I understand about emptying the mind is something that one should discern by oneself. This also accords with other Liu's texts in which he prioritizes the students to investigate the principles meaning to discern what is true and what is false, through reading more texts. I believe this whole process of knowing the true and repelling the false falls into the same category, which will eventually lead one to a teacher who can then teach the students to practice the truth. This is what I believe but if you have something that might open my eyes and allows me to see beyond what I understand (through my silly little mindset), then that would be greatly helpful. Also please share how you go about emptying your mind because it will be interesting to know what everyone practices in search of the Truth. Thanks and I look forward to your replies. Cheers

Very good point mate... You are right about what you are saying mate but I think the road is long and sidetracks are countless and the only thing that gets people to the ultimate is the sincerity in their intent. I forget the intent sometimes wen I post anything on this forum but I guess what you guys are saying is what teaches me that again. Thank you guys I love hearing your comments

I wish I could do that mate trust me!

This is very true and I do believe that being humble is very important. In this context I agree he is asking students to be humble but I think there is more to that as well. One cannot be humble if one does not get rid of the human mentality i.e. random thoughts and arbitrarily acting on them. If one can overcome this human mentality then one naturally becomes humble. It is because of this human mind that one keeps running into trouble without knowing if its troublesome. I have heard Liu say that students usually take the false to be real without fully understanding the principles. So emptying the mind (meaning being absolutely humble) allows great teachers to work with students. Thinking that one can ascend without lowering themselves is one of the common mistakes what students make (not my words btw). Overcoming this human mind cannot happen overnight and it cannot be forced either. Thats why I asked what everyone does in order to eliminate this human mindset? This I ching is written by a Taoist Alchemical master, so people who read taoist alchemical will definitely find this interesting and obviously spot something in these sayings which I cannot. Thanks for your reply and I hope to hear more. Cheers

I have one final question and I would like you guys to please answer it straightforwardly without using metaphors or symbols. I would like to know and I am sure that many new Taoists would like to know, that what is the first step or practice for he beginner. Remember I am going along only with what Liu says in all his text about not using any physical methods or techniques. If you have read Liu I-ming's text and you follow it diligently with a single mind, then please share what you have to say to my question. Thanks