fatguyslim

Hey everyone, first of all I thank Wondo for reviving this thread. It has been a long time since I have been on this platform so apologies for not replying sooner. Since I wrote this post my friend and I have worked hard at translating some more texts by Liu Yiming. After reading a number of his texts it is somewhat clear now that he never urged any of his students to do any practices that focuses on the post heaven. From his text it is very clear that he leaned more towards Confucian way of cultivation rather than Buddhist way of cultivation. Liu was of course a Taoist immortal and and of course understood internal alchemy which is not mentioned in any Confucian texts I have read. From what I have gathered from Liu is that he wants every person to practice virtue. Investigating principles to know right from wrong and then act with righteousness and benevolence. In Understand Reality, Liu says this "What heaven enjoins on people is virtue; and virtue is also that whereby people requite heaven. If you have virtue, heaven is glad; then carrying out this mandate is very easy, and depends on oneself. If you have no virtue, heaven is angry; then practising this path is very difficult, and depends on heaven. Why is this? Without virtue and application, one will not be countenanced by the spirits, and there are apt to be demons which cause obstruction; suffering difficulty and sickness, one will inevitably give up along the way. Therefore, those who practise the Tao must make it a priority to cultivate virtue. When one studies and practises the Tao rich in virtue, the Tao is easy to learn and practise, particularly because heaven is glad and the obstacles of demons spontaneously vanish." In his books Liu wants students to do good deeds. Appropriate to his times he gave examples of how students could help build roads and bridges which will benefit countless people. He says something along the lines that roads and bridges are to be used by countless men for many generations so the karma to do something like this would be high. This was just an example given by Liu, I think his objective is to guide people to goodness and build on virtue. And when the virtue is high in someone immortals themselves would be moved to pass on the teachings. "When the student is ready the master appears" This is very similar to what Mencius says in his books. Mencius only spoke of righteousness and benevolence and it is a key thing in his teachings that he wanted to pass on to the kings and rulers of his time. There is also a striking similarities between the text written by Wang Yang Ming and Liu Yiming and both these masters talk about working on virtue. There is also a great deal of emphasis put on filial piety by these masters and reminding every student about the importance of it. Anyway this is what I have learned from Liu over the years and try everyday to work on becoming a better person.

Decibelle it brings joy to my heart that you still remember me. My friend I never meant to cause any friction between us. I never called you a fake mate all I was trying to say was that, doing things on the basis of "to just go do them" to seek results is very hard for me and funny enough for my friend it is the same. What usually happens is that we do the opposite (not to prove that the other is wrong but just because it's too overwhelming). Say for example if the master says don't think of sex... the first thing that comes to the mind is sex and it lingers in the mind for a while. Now what good is that? My main concern in all of this is to understand virtue. As it says in the taoist i-ching that there is human tao and then there is celestial tao. Which further shares that there is human virtues and then there are celestial virtues. In lius commentary on understanding reality he says it very clearly that cultivation of virtue allows spirits and demons to open doors where there none before allowing one to tread the path of tao without much hindrance. You see there is a method in this and it is very close to what neo Confucians and ancient longmen patriarchs say. Let's talk about this for change and see what meaning we arrive at for cultivating virtue. Thanks and take care

Hey Fabrizio, I h am an avid reader of Liu Yiming's books and in the translations presented by Cleary, I have never read Liu talk about any practises as such. He rather critisises them all. For example I am quoting all the lines from "Awakening to the Tao" with the word breath in it.... Please let me know which one is it that you are talking about 1. Grafting Peaches and Grafting Plums When a peach tree is old , graft on a young branch and it will again bear peaches. When a plum tree is old , graft on a young branch and it will again bear plums. This is because even when a tree is old it still has energy in its roots. What I realize as I observe this is the Tao of grafting when people grow old . People age because they indulge in emotions and passions-a hundred worries affect their minds, myriad affairs weary their bodies. Expending their vitality, exhausting their spirit, they take the fal se to be real and take misery for happiness. Their living potential is cut away to the point where it nearly perishes entirel y, their nature is disturbed and their life is shaken . Because the root is unstable, they grow old and die. This cannot be attributed to fa te, fo r they bring it on themselves. If people know enough to regret their errors and change, cut off emotional entanglements , get rid of addictions to intoxicants , sensuality , and possessions, look upon wealth and status as like ephemeral clouds, regard power and profit as like band its and enemies, then everything wil l be empty for them, and they will not be attached to anything. Concentrating the energy like a baby, being abstemious, storing the vital ity and nurturing the spirit, getting rid of illusion and returning to reality , fostering the growth of the root at all times, walking every step on the right path, increasing true thought and diminishing fal se thought, truly sincere within and without, integrated with the design of nature, they can thereby be rejuvenated. This is like the way of grafting a young branch onto an old tree. An ancient adept said, "Even at the age of seventy or eighty, as long as you still have one breath left in you, restoration is possible." This is true. 2. Bellows A bellows has holes on either side, and at the opening of each hole is a flap. Inside is empty, while the frame is straight. The emptiness inside is the essence, the straightness of the frame is the function. The two holes are the passages of exit and entry; the two flaps are the mechanism of opening and closing . As the frame is worked back and forth, taking in and pushing out, it empties without exhaustion, moves to produce wind, opening and closing naturally. What I realize as I observe this is the Tao of the essence and function of cultivating real ity . I f people can be essentially empty within and he functionally straightforward in mind, without bias, without greed, letting the celestial design flow through them , then firmness and flexibility will match each other, action and stillness will combine appropriately , indirectness and directness will attain balance, and they can be passive or active in accordance with the situation. Then people can share the same mechanism of energy as the sky, share the creativity of heaven and earth. This is like a bellows, inwardly empty with a straight frame, coming and going, breathing in and out naturally. As the working of energy does not cease, people can live long. 3. Artificial Exercises The Tao is natural. All forced manipulations and concoctions are in vain. Some people guard their minds and settle their ideas and thoughts, some people hold their breath and keep it in the abdomen, some people perform psychosomatic energy-circulation exercises. When these people come to the end of their lives and find everything they did was useless, they will resent the gods, also uselessly. Please let me know where did you read about Liu Yiming talking about any physical practise because so far and as it even says the third paragraph, I don't see him mentioning it anywhere. Do let us know. Cheers

For years I had thought they were primitives and for a long time I considered their wisdom useless. It was because of a very good friend of mine that I got to learn more about them, I suddenly felt amazingly stupid when I got to learn more and more about them. And then I gradually started respecting them, every passing day I was in awe as to what they had written. Today I can very easily say that all I know about good, life, justice, harmony and peace I owe it to them. I owe it to my Ancestors, I owe it to my Ancestors... Here is a quote from Cleary's I Ching to illustrate how foolish I was and how their wisdom was the only thing that helped me in dark times... "This is like a king coming to have a shrine for spirits. Ancestors are people's roots; if they forget their roots, people are disrespectful and inhuman. When the king comes to have a shrine for spirits, this is how to let people know there is a basis to be grateful to. People's original natural reality is like their ancestral roots: When people abandon reality and accept falsehood, that is like forgetting ancestral roots. If people can gather in their spirit and energy, cultivate essence and life, and restore the original natural reality, that is like not forgetting ancestral roots." I hope my country (India) and China should learn more from what was handed down to us and not from what is handed across in these degenerate times. Peace

Hey everyone, send me a personal message if you want to discuss about Liu I-ming's text. Cheers

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Excellent reply!!!

Click this link http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n85-331645... On the left side it shows the alternative names... Don't go by Chinese character mate as they have different difference in meaning as well. Anyways see the alternate names, it has both of the above characters... Cheers

On this page http://www.daoistcenter.org/chronology.pdf you will find them under Qing Dynasty and on this link http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t8h8myrpxAUC&pg=PA1510&lpg=PA1510&dq=Liu+Huayang+liu+yiming&source=bl&ots=LsXwYgIBI0&sig=o8CCX5DKX2XMIR0CsRi2JyV-zRI&hl=en&ei=dnKuTq-6NoPa8AOA2YjcDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Liu%20Huayang%20liu%20yiming&f=false they are shown seperately as well. I am certain now that they are two different men. Thanks

Hey everyone, I am trying to figure out whether the author of the book "Cultivating the energy of life" Liu Huayang the same as the author of "Awakening to the Tao" Liu I-ming? I believe they are different people but I could be wrong... My evidence to support this is on the left side of this site http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n85-331645, there are alternative names of Liu I-ming. Also the life of Liu I-ming seems to be different to Liu Huayang according to http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/Liu_Yiming and http://tao-meditation.blogspot.com/2010/11/zen-master-liu-huayang.html. The only resemblance of the two is that they were born around the same time, which makes me think it could be the same guy. This is important to me because Liu I-ming never shared any information on any kind of practice for Tao, whereas Liu Huayang seem to have a practice which the Wuliupai school calls it a secret. Cheers

I would strongly recommend to study Liu I-ming (his commentary on Chang Po-tuan and the I Ching surpass all other texts that I have ever read), Confucius (reading as much as you can on this guy), The Essential Mengzi (other commentaries can be misleading), Journey to the West (Anthony C. Yu's translation exceeds every other book that I have ever read), Dharma Jewel platform Sutra by Master Hsuan Hua (few things in this book wont appeal to westerners but best Buddhist book I have ever read)[http://www.fodian.net/world/Platform-Sutra.pdf]. Liu I-ming is an 18th Century Taoist adept and he in his subtle harshness warns about people falling into sidetracks and false teachers, time and again. I have few of these books in pdf. Send me a private message and I will send you the links. Cheers

Well played

Very true words indeed... I believe you too are beginning to see the importance of teachers and companions. Keep reading my friend and hopefully you will see something in the teachings that I fail to see... Good luck!