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excursion: How to identify TRUE internal power (Neijing) in action to identify a true master (of YinYangGong)? How can we detect if the power of someone like John Chang, Gary Clyman, Sifu Jiang or others is REAL or FAKE? Well, there is a CLUE! I identified it already on my own some time ago, but because of this thread and because I discovered today an article of a taichi master who affirmed what I catched already for myself. So stay tuned: http://www.taichisociety.org/neijin.html (Yeah, but Bruce Frantzis got it in three month or so! Yeah, right! ) And now here is the big one, the CLUE: So, that's it: Neijin(g) or internal power when used leads to vibrations that don't look like they could be reproduced by conscious muscle action or willed shaking! When emitted from the hands, the hands tremble and shake in that abnormal way! Let's see: That's the White Crane vibration that Frantzis learned supposedly from Liao! Obviously it's FAKE! It's what Grand Master Kellen Chia calls "Tai Chi Jin"...only body mechanics! No Neijing here! Lol, Westerner Frantzis was tricked by the asian guy Liao with the "westerner and outdoor student" version of Jing (= "Tai Chi Jin"), if you ask me! No way he could have achieved Neijing in three month or so! And BTW, no wonder people hurt themselves (as Frantzis claimed) when dithering around like that! Let's see this guy: Watch closely 2:53 what the american guy says:"His hand trembles when he does that!" IMO: Master Shu is TRUE! Our great role model John Chang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvtQXliHxdc Watch closely 2:06: TRUE!!! (of course!) What about contoversial Gary J. Clyman? True or fake? What do you think? http://vimeo.com/6635226 (the URL didn't work, had to insert the link!) Yea, it's blurred, but watch very closely 6:57 - 6:59, maybe several times until you get it, especially his left hand! Gary is TRUE!!! and has real Neijing! OK, last but not least: Shifu Jiang: Watch (in HD!) around 1:02 in the first and 0:35 - 0:43 in the second vid. Hmmm...don't know about the first vid, the little shaking could be caused through muscular tension. Don't looks like Neijing-vibration to me! And in the second vid, there was definitely no shaking at all. And because I guess that burning human flesh needs a more than a little bit Neijing (remember John Changs extreme vibrating arm when burning the newspaper....well, make your own conclusion! I would rather say FAKE!!! Interesting, wasn't it? AND: I would conclude that John Chang's power is basically the same NEIJING as every internal MA master as Waysun Liao or Gary Clyman has! Maybe he has more juice in his dantian, maybe Waysun Liao has more, who knows, but it's the same stuff! Your opinions, please!

Good question! Maybe "Temple Style Taichi" and it's Nei Gong system are his own creation, derived from several sources. In another thread, I posted Bruce Frantzis' claim that Liao's martial art power aka. Jing comes from "Fukian White Crane" and that Frantzis achieved Jing "vibration power" also in a short time after Liao's supervision. Well, I don't know if the story is true, but whatever Frantzis' achieved under Liao as a "White Crane" vibration power, with that he could "break bones left and right" from his opponents, it's not the TRUE power that Liao, Chang and others possess! I will prove that in my next comment! HOLY SH*T!!!! That's a heavy one!!! Is this friend of you a believable witness? Would he post his testimony here? Man, that would be great!

Thank you, you're welcome!

Also, concerning Kosta's claims and other sources about Mo Pai and other "Thunderpath" schools/sects: According to our TTB member forestofsouls' first hand experience with Waysun Liao, refering to HERE: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/2126-actual-manifestation-of-chi/page__p__19556__hl__Waysun%20Liao__fromsearch__1entry19556 Well, according to Kosta's claims and other sources about Mo Pai and other "Thunderpath" schools/sects Waysun Liao shouldn't be able to 1) generate an electric kind of Chi and 2) transfer it through the air without touching, because Waysun Liao's system doesn't include the oh so difficult YinYangGong!!! (...at least not as a topic worth to mention! They suck in Heaven- and Earth Chi in one exercise and condense them into dantian, as I said. That's all.) Any opinions? Ha, I already love this thread, the demanding topic, the controversy, the revelations...I mean, that's the central topic in Daoism: How to achieve immortality! So please: Keep the great comments coming!!

Additional, Liao says in his newest book "Tao - the way of God" that the "highest achievement" (even higher than only replenishing your One Chi and being able to hold always on your TE...but what is the premise for the "highest achievement") is the following: Well, even though I have supposedly the whole Nei Gong part of Temple Style Taichi, I have no clue what he means by "raise your energy so high". Any ideas...? Edit: This seems exactly like the achievement through "The Six Yogas Of Naropa" (tummo), when you suck all your energies into the "immortal drop" in the heart, what also happens when you die, but when you do it consciously, you raise in an immortal "illusory body" made of your energies. Your material body dissolves into light and only hair and nails remain.

I didn't know that facts, thanks! Do you know how you bring the Yin- and Yang Chi into your body in Mo Pai? I guess Yin Chi by breathing in through Huyin or the feet and Yang Chi by breathing in through bahui (crownpoint of head)? And why can't you simply breath in primordial Wu/Ling/One Chi (the "godly" Chi that splits or transforms into Yin- and Yang Chi)and condense it in dantian? Would be the easier way. Waysun Liao claims in "Nine Nights with the Taoist Master" that the Chi that you can breath in through the pores from around you IS in fact the "unused" One Chi and therefore it can replenish your own remaining One Chi. He claims that you have to bring it in through the pores and then condense it into the spine to "replenish" your One Chi. Also, he claims that your "TE" in in fact a little piece of TAO and some kind of matrix that organizes your development and existence and that it resides in the center of dantian. This TE works with One Chi, changes it to Yin Chi to nourish your body from the inside and to Yang Chi to protect your body on the outside. When your One Chi burns out, you loose contact with your TE, you decline, decay and cease and then the TE goes on to create the next personality or so. So, when you replenish your One Chi so it doesn't burn out, you can always hold on to your TE, never burn out as a personality. Well, matter of fact is, in Waysun Liao's Nei Gong part of his Temple Style Tai Chi System, that I have through Gary Clyman, you ALSO breath in Chi through your Bahui and through your Huyin (supposedly Heaven- and Earth Chi) in one exercise and mix them ALL AT ONCE into your dantian. Seems much more secure then the Mo Pai method to me...