WhiteTiger

For the sakes of being direct... and attacking the issue your having straight on its always best to finish what you started (I learned and know this from failure to do so in the past). To continue Zazen until you have freed yourself from your suffering your facing right now... it may not be easy... but its the best... and most direct this way you don't need to start all over again practicing something new. Your thinking right now is I pick up something new to compliment my Zazen to help out... while what i'm saying this is an indirect approach and it will most likely not actually help you deal with the situation... Although for physiological reasons, it may take your mind off the issue long enough for you to put lots of focus on another practice that makes you feel a certain way and you can claim it helped you... Although you still haven't actually fixed the issues that continue to arise in your Zazen meditation... You only found another way to deal with your every day life while doing two extra practices... by then you might have even gone so far to decide to drop Zazen all together... specially if the Qigong makes you feel really good. Anyway... doing Zazen... and picking just any Qigong to supplement it I personally wouldn't recommend... There are certain ones that might go well with Zazen... (although still take extra time to learn them... side tracking your actual issue, which isn't the direct route) Althoughas Mikealz explains there are some strick stillness meditations that also go along with movement meditations... that might be a better deal for you. I think Mikealz explains it pretty well in his post regarding how to better understand it although I'll still gotta give my reason in my own words. (god I'm also attached to the Self also way to much)

None movement Qigong is completely different approach to achieving healthy body... when done properly and correct you can through sitting meditation achieve a healthy body... although when suffering continues and your not getting there many want to stray off the actual practice to try something different... You chose Qigong to do this... No teacher would recommend you to stop trying the practice because your having problems with it... You must continue to put effort intill the issue is fixed. Working on getting one thing down before moving to the next... If you move to the next thing you have to choose to make that your main practice (thats the best advice any teacher/master would tell you) I can't stress that enough... I'm sure everyone here will agree with me here. Choose one and stick with it until you've worked through most to almost all your issues with it then move to the next... type of way to deal with it... You choose your path... Best recommendation is to stick with Zazen. If done in stillness your body shouldn't deteriorate. If it does I suggest doing some medical Qigong and thats only to keep yourself from going down the tubes. Can bring a horse to the water but can't make the horse drink it. I think when i last posted i address a whole bunch of things... this second post i pretty much address the main issue... Its up to you to gain the ability to overcome the problems... Buddhism is a practice of self help... they give you guidance you follow the way to help yourself. Peace, wT

+3 on the 8 Pieces of Brocade. A simple foundation always needs to be established... all the high level teachers must have this before ever moving on to something like Tai Chi in the beginning... or moving Qigong and so forth. I would personally lay off all drugs they don't help you out... they will never... I've Heard alcohol can help you to relax although in very small doses... You can benefit from this but the outcome will never be anything significant without a teacher I think its a bad idea to go with this... There are many dangers you could run into if you did it improperly using intention behind it without doing it correct... I'm also pretty sure Qigong will not help you out... It may give you empowerment but the karmic retribution will be great in the end... while you might have ups and feel good for those ups you will have downs... And i'm sure you want balance. If you were doing Zazen and had issues arise you better continue to do them until you brake through the arising... best way to help you and better then starting something new. Zazen is pretty good practice and you had teachers willing to teach you it. Equanimity is similar and what you are kind of looking for in Zazen... although they have a different way to teachings similar things like you mentioned... Vipassana is a very good practice to also do... Their are a lot of crazy Qigong teachers out there holding lots of power... bent on power in some way on it... Gaining power can make you crazy in many different ways... before you ever go into that you need to find a good foundation... that gives you, balance, or Peace, or Equanimity, all that sorts of things... I really suggest you not try to go against the grain. You will cause more harm and difficulty to yourself then you need to. Remember try your best to lay off the drugs they aren't gunna help you.

Thanks for sharing knowledge Lin... very nice of you... General Question... I was also under the impression that thick needles not so widely used anymore... (eh but what do i know). I believe those go in the 8 extra ordinary vessels instead of the 12 is that correct? I guess I got some studying to do with acupuncture. Anyone have any good recommendations off the top of your head... maybe i'll also search some of the old threads. Peace, wT

I highly respect xuesheng, and what he has to say... I would also agree with what he says and claims The thing people talk about having lots of Qi they really mean they have worked hard enough to be able to access the chi that they should have always (if they didn't) have access to it... If they never disconnected with the fact they had access to it... they just need to more consciously be aware of it... and hopfully work with the skills gained to manipulate it.

Thats ok! Defining Chi by yourself with only limited experiences of types of chi seems pretty impossible. I would go on to say, that I don't know all the different types of chi... there is supposedly an endless defining of chi. For you to claim or talk about knowing the types you would really have to have a teacher tell you the definition of what your experiencing and have them show you. For me though I really don't know much... Most of my understanding comes from of Theoretical understanding and just a little of experience.

I was gunna post something about Hard and Soft because recently in my "Search for a teacher" i realized something that i had not noticed before... which refines my "searching for a teacher" thus making it easier. Although You basically said what i realized. (Differently stated but nevertheless the same thing) Darn for beating me to it... Peace, wT

There really isn't anything that isn't chi. Although starting to define different types of chi and so forth is an art... learning about energy in general gets quite complex. Actually its all really simple and makes lots of sense but theres more and more to learn... it just goes deeper and funny enough the deeper it goes the smaller the nuances get.

Ah very nice Vortex... thanks for that... You have your answer Shon... and i have mine... they are more of a representation of balance in my eyes... Maybe thats because the depth of my understanding of the famous Yin Yang Ideal is limited. At least to its full complexity.

Shon... To me Some Yin and Yang Theory represents (when i look at it) balance much better then the Yin Yang Ideal or at least it represents balance in a different way as you can see than the more common Yin and Yang Ideal represents. Although I'm just speaking when I look at that Yin and Yang one by Ancient form of the Taijitu, as used by Lai Zhide (according to wiki). I don't actually know the teachings of it and what it represents... It just looks like a better representation of balance in a different way. If anyone does shed some light on the "Ancient form of the Taijitu, as used by Lai Zhide's Yin Yang circular form" then maybe we can start to see which type of balance theory you like for what sort of representations.

Very nicely and well put Stigweard (if i could only turn what you said into a daily practical practice daily) then thats a step for me in the right direction.

The teachings that what you do impacts others. When you suffer from something its based on something your attempting to do and not successfully doing and it manifests itself through causing your own suffering. Best way to deal with this is to not to allow yourself to be ignorant, of what is happening.

Ah... Thank you very much, I identify very well with what you said and now understand the definition of Wai gong. (A word term I'm apparently I'm not nearly as familiar with as i thought when i posted) Yep, Nei Gong is not a word I'm unfamiliar with. Although I still thank you for taking the time to explain the generalization of the word Nei Gong and what it means. Thank you for taking the time to post it has helped. Peace and blessings Lin P.S. I didn't mean to say claim that these practices apprenticed from your teachers are special nor secretive (or both) but rather when the student is ready to learn such a thing (and most likely in need of the teachings) thing i'm sure you'd be more then happy to teach them.

nope sorry can't read it... wish i could Anyone able to read the writing.

Your comment about the name of Nei Gong your right "the name" is nothing special about them. The specific Nei Gong you do not need to get into very specific detail and so forth about... and understand that its more a private type of thing. Was hoping for more a general type of answer so i might know of the direction of what your talking about... and if i don't i would get some idea of the general understanding of it. Wai Gong the name is not familiar to me (at least pointed out in my own personal experiences that can identifies what the name Wai Gong means) I've read on the internet more then one definition. Thats why i asked how do you define Wai Gong. Anyway... If you much rather prefer you can send me e-mails about it... You have my E-mail address were we can discuss about the definition of Wai Gong... and we won't get to involved into your personal practice that was apprenticed from your teachers. If not thats ok also. Thanks, Peace, Sincerely wT.

I don't think The middle way is for sissies. The very common famous Yin Yang Ideal is extremely popular but their are others that teach about other theories. Check out this one... Some Yin Yang Theory According to wiki it is an Ancient form of the Taijitu, as used by Lai Zhide. (please understand labels are labels only meant to represent something) Two martial arts that are completely different can have the same name. Their are many others also. (So I'm starting to learn that I personally just scratching the surface)

Well... There is a time and a place for killing... although it is ultimately the last choice you should choose and at the same time only when your life is in danger. Danger doesn't mean when you feel scared or something but when your life is on the line. Weather your Sith or not.

Like Yin and Yang there are always two sides to the story... Two sides to everything... In the end do you think its right to kill anything, no matter what the reason. I personally don't! Do you think there is any justification in killing another and if so why. Don't have to post your answer just think about it to yourself. (If you wish to learn... post why you think your right. Just a Intellectual type of discussion... no one will be considered to be right or wrong its the conclusion you drawy from the discussion) My counter disagreement if you believe their is justification then you would have to be impure to kill another or knock down someones cultivation. I personally don't want to be impure in any way... and willing to work towards that until i've reached full perfection in that area.

Can one really only live life in extremes? Aren't their other things at work at the same time? This is correct according to my understanding although... I could be wrong. Unless I'm not understanding what your trying to convey... I believe this is incorrect... If you look at the big white part... and that is Extreme Yang how is that the opposite the big black part be extreme extreme yang? Maybe its just a typo you did see there... (hehe, we all make mistakes... I make mistakes all the time!) Thanks, Peace, wT

Thank you very much for your post, I am a little perplexed when you say Wai Gong. What is your definition of Wai Gong is since you practice one? I ask only because I've known a few different types of definitions of such a practice. May I ask what type of Nei Gong did you practice for so long. I very much enjoyed watching your Sticky Hands video on Post #47 and wondering what lineage of Wing Chun do you practice? Thanks, /bow with respect Peace, wT

Your right... I'm being pretty heartless with my answers... The question... Let me try and be opened... and pure with what i'm about to say Wu Wei = No Action But you will die and deterierate if you do no action... so you cultivate doing movement while being in stillness... Meaning inside you do no action, you have no intention in mind... while you cultivate through movement to vitalize your body... to cultivate your qi... and hopefully when you get good enough you can move to other stages.

No Action No Intent

I hope their would be more then one reason why one follows their spiritual path. I'm sure as people grow... develop... get better their reason changes and it gets deeper and deeper. Hopefully until words can really not describe it at all. (an experience that is indescribable) As for me right now a lot of my current motivation is to practice to end my suffering. Although, currently I wish to get back on the route when I practiced things that were indescribable.

Good stuff... what family system if you don't mind me asking? /bows with respect wT

There is nothing wrong learning from a book or DVDs... Their are also programs where you send videos to teachers to get corrections (which is even better) and i suggest you try that route if you can... Books and DVDs are just seen as the lesser choice between having a face to face teacher. Although in my experience you can have a face to face teacher that doesn't wanna teach you crap... (although Oftentimes it can be traced back to the way your interacting or what your doing wrong) You can endlessly fix yourself... although if a teacher doesn't wanna teach you he aint gunna.