WhiteTiger

Its value of not resting is the difference in resting. But to actually help you out a little more and to try not seem so redundant, I would personally say (I'm no qualified teacher on the subject and speaking clearly from experience) get better at not resting in a nice and gradual amount of time... Try to Focus to only have 3 rests next time, once you get that down next try for another only 2 rests. In external or Wushu like practices they have what they call an internal way to deal with such things... Which works very well actually and is totally dependent on the strength of your mental focus. You should to gaze straight forward as if your eyes are shooting forward while using that focus i talked about to pay attention to your breathing making sure you take breaths in and out. The better you can listen to your breath (which is done through feeling) the easier this will become for you. Listening to your breath should be a basic feeling of your lungs being more full on inhalation and less full on exhalation. It should be more of a natural Rhythm. The less amount of time you can keep this up the less of a Rhythm it will feel. This is only because your exerting so externally. Anyway... you can use lots of talk to try and be exact like i am... although after a while it seems to be jazzing it up... Basically enthusiasm is on how strong your Focus is. Well, have you learned to do Qigong in your taichi form yet? That should drastically help you with the flow... Although if not simulating the flow physically only is just a proper practice of good relaxation and understanding/practice of yielding. Which does require good feeling... To adhere faster to yielding requires the relaxation. And putting this all together in a practice is what makes it such an art.

and their arms... infact higher levels you can learn how to breath through all of your skin. (everywhere on your body)

Yes.

Well I personally think the question is what is appealing about each word The Yang representation of what stands out the most in the word... flashy show off type of thing... Wizard and maybe Shrine But the importances of the significance is a different story. As a boy I was always taught to spend your whole life type studying. My cousin's friend, female Chinese, Claimed... Jewish people are very similar to the Chinese. (Her words not mine) Anyways I add that I will spend my whole life learning... and the best way to do that is through practice... I practiced lots and learned through experience almost all my life, but i neglected studying, through books. One of my most favorite things about Taoism (at least the way i learned it) You learn through experience and reading. It combined the two... oh how wondrous it is. Practice, Practice, Practice, AND Study, Study, Study.

Great I need to dive deeper into it myself. I would love to hear what you have to say express... I seem to be trying to do a bunch of things at once... I can no longer afford... or at least be happy putting all my eggs into one basket. Well Your right... There are some missing stages i didn't point out But i'm NOT a master. Nor should i claim to be an advanced student. I do feel I've gone deep into some practice(s) although deep is only relative to the person saying it. Its subjective... Its my opinion in other words. Comparing it to the Masters I'm practically nothing. My statement leaves out a few things I already am seeming to so far successfully accomplish. Although I've read, no matter how strong ones foundation (Which i'm not saying mine is strong) is desire and passion in the heart can always destroy the strongest of foundation. I'd be very interested into getting to the heart of Virtue.

Maybe, but define daily life. Don't get me wrong I'm not disagreeing with you trying to add to the conversation, just to get others to think while adding my comments. In Society, where people deal with lots of other people this definately has to happen and I totally agree with you. It can be different for others. Although that doesn't put aside how valuable I've come to realize Confucianism is. In fact, the principle of doing things naturally. For example lets take any practice you know of where you begin to grow, or cultivate when using the principles of Yin and Yang. If growing gradually and slowly, as if to give up the will not to force but let it happen as you are going towards the goal then definately your already following a natural way. (I mean don't get me wrong there are no absolutes. At different levels and situations there are different things can happen... every rule when applied until you outgrow it then can be broken) My conclusion is this "Natural Way" has its roots in Confucian origin. While Don't Get Me Wrong here, But Confucian Should Be Valued and Practiced, Just as the Same As Buddhism and Taoism Zhongyongdaoist, Can't wait until you find some time to write (if you can) about why the three schools of practice taking over power through China's History. (In the Demon Thread, or in another thread) I also came to the same conclusion of the importance of practice (which I'm still trying to achieve successfully still) The practice of both to balance one. What made me realize this was from following Thread... http://www.thetaobums.com/Enrich-Your-Life...rtue-t8520.html My understanding is because Yin and Yang (Negative and Positive) must be in balance oneshould practice both, to achieve balance inside. And thank you Zhongyongdaoist for being able to speak about it so much clearer and so well for others benefit.

I never sought out to be enlightened from you "Teaching" it on an Intellectual level. I AM interested in the intellectual understanding YOU HAVE of Enlightenment... or anyone else that speaks as if they know it so well. I understand "one" can not attain enlightenment through purely one speaking about enlightenment on an intellectual level (I ONLY BELIEVE IN MAKING SOMETHING MY OWN THROUGH PERSONAL EXPERIENCE), and I also understand and believe "One can teach methods that would eventually lead the cultivator to attain it." Well I'm not good at it and I don't like playing word games either. Happy New Year to all. Peace and blessings Lin and everyone else P.S. I have ego issues... It obviously shows... because of that I'm sorry although my intention is not for fame. but for inner wealth inside, as a cultivator... and that doesn't mean I'm trying to draw others into me but i am seeking in panic. Thats the straightforward truth weather you believe it or not. I'm very sorry for straying this topic off its course. I didn't mean to disturb anyone... please continue talking P.P.S. editing to make my post clearer.

Try and examine Pristine Purity in its true form. Before your state was altered while growing up as a baby. It really turns into a thing that your brain is still developing... Technically... but while that part is happening you are more aware of things before you had so much other stuff happening. So basically look at the Nervous system and the development of their brains. There are different parts that play different roles, Nervous system is connected or a part of your brain so its an important part imo. In super simplistic terms read up, http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...11012022AAFN2Sa Although "Answerer 2" from the website link above, thinks the Mid brain and the Hind brain "are for more elementary purposes, for basic evolutionary needs" Which in, meditation practices believe are untrue, and sadly it can only be experienced how untrue it is and not exactly specifically scientifically be shown to be in a systematic way be true. (at least not yet) Read about how modern scientists claim the different states babies have and their perception of this stuff. I don't exactly understand what you mean. Eh... hehe i'm having a humility moment here... I'm actually not comprehending what you wrote. I think i kind of understand but at the same time i don't. I was gunna say no... but they can but its a improper way of being It causes Hunger. In what way do you consider Hope to sustain humanity if it causes hunger, as you progress in these practices you get further and further away from materialism.

Thelerner's (Michael's) post as not been snipped in different parts they go all together i comment on different parts of this post. I love this post btw This tells you so much, if you can choose to be free from desire and Do onto others as you would have them do to you. You will pretty much (if i'm not missing anything) be treated the way you want to be treated. If you wish not to be treated improperly from others following this rule, You will have no quarrels other then the quarrels you have with yourself. I've also heard this version. AND AN IMPORTANT POINT... why not follow both more or less? Well i would like to add one thing, then i have a question. Their is a theory, (not exactly sure where its roots come from) but the theory is very important, have to be opened to give in order for others to have something based onto to allow themselves to receive. It could be a double edged sword though, so I'm guessing this is where Buddhism comes into important play in this. Ok for my question... The Golden Rule, doesn't it have its roots or originated from Buddhism... and if so what type of Buddhism anyone know?

Game of word antics... Not something I'm very good with. An art of the English Language and how to use it well for your directed intent. Well, I'm agreeing with myself to disagree with you. Your right... you probably never assume to "Try" and sell something. I don't at all expect to be enlightened from what you know about enlightenment NOR how well you can explain it intellectually. Best wishes of Peace and Patience to Lin and all else that have read these last two posts. WT

Your Smiling with your linps not touching eachother again. *Smacks Mal on the head just like Rafiki did to Simba in Lion King* Practice makes perfect!

Its very interesting Lin I do not doubt this at all and this may obviously be true, but it is my personal opinion that a teacher or someone really trying to teach, only guides the student in the right direction. Lin, through my personal experiences with you, you attempt to jazz things up or sell yourself to others about your ideas. Now don't get me wrong... and i hope OUTSIDE VIEWERS DON'T GET THIS WRONG, but this has nothing to do with how much you have cultivated nor anything to do with your Intellectual knowledge. People attempting to use my delusions to gain profit or interest I find is a complete and total waste of my time. The idea of teaching stuff about enlightenment and while not giving "The Tao Te Ching" sort of simple and easy to understand answers, is something I personally look down on. Lin, Its simple You seem to know so much about enlightenment, I'm interested in an intellectual understanding of enlightenment from you and thats IT! You sell yourself again and again claiming Enlightenment is the only thing. The idea that Enlightenment is the only thing to cultivate for is just Untrue 100%! Enlightenment and Nirvana aren't the same thing. Many practice to reach Nirvana. Answers to peoples issues should be enlightening in that moment or when the person applies the wisdom. When i was a young boy and had issues with moving forward as a young kid i came in desperation to my father. Telling him in a very dramatic state that i could not move forward. He gave me guidance that was on a completely intellectual level. Which start out the beginning of my cultivation, from that guidance alone I cultivated to great deal.

Very interesting, I think Daoist practices, when learning about Daoism You start to learn the real deal at the systematic fundamental levels. I'm sure as you continue your practice, the actual more deeper (without going crazy) you get into it the more and more you see it as being systematic. My experiencing Daoism, and there was much improper stuff, like practices, teachings and teachers, I had to go through before really grasping some basic fundamentals, but oh my I don't at all feel that i did anything less of a lot of cultivation just to grasp that information. Oddly enough in my experience i'm always seeming to repair my foundation or strengthen it, as if i had important pieces missing about it of course those pieces weren't taught to me. This in my opinion is very unfortunate. In conclusion, I suspect at deeper levels of Daoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism, they are still very systematic. Interesting, to hear Qabalah has a systematic structure.

Yes mal I totally agree with phore. Just because its harder at times to do meditation we shouldn't not attempt to try. A person that wants to become a priest lets say, would do meditation everyday for a certain amount of time no matter what out comes happen. (Unless something extreme is preventing them from doing so) A person whom wishes to seek salvation from the suffering he has had to deal with will Meditate and will not stop until he is free, if he truly had the will to do so. A person that just is on their path and enjoys their path never moving forward or at least not moving forward because of his or her amount of effort put in is truly stuck in their practices... basically means that their are some big issues missing from the whole picture. Idk, Mal I think you should attempt to spend time into doing your meditation even when getting no results for at least the alloted time you normally do on good days. If nothing happens or changes it would be good to observe the internals and externals that could be distracting you. Once found those out you can decide to overcome them, or escape them all together. But i guess thats just the way i personally would handle the situation and just my advice. Not long enough.

I would not think any less of you if you didn't end up geting me all the explanations offered. Although still very interested I am. So many things have changed since last these posts happened. Anyway, White Tiger was always my favorite animal. I sometimes have Old age reasoning skills and sometimes i have little kid reasonings to things. I am interested in maybe learning the correlation that White Tiger has to do with me? The connections and so forth. But i guess thats more a different topic for a different thread or private messages. That is correct Is it correct that you saying your of the Red Dog that you in your early 60s? Because its funny, I normally enjoy and very much interested in learning from older people as if their wisdom is sagely like. I don't find many young teachers that willing to give any sage wisdom as if its given in a sagely manor or weather its just some intellectual knowledge that seems dull, AND MOST LIKELY presented in a dull fashion, only at surface value. Thank you Spectrum. I was talking more like practices instead of insight. Insight is learn through diligent practicing. Plus insight is not exactly what i value the most unless of course without the insight i seem to have a hard time continuing to practice. Like basically there are about three different ways to go about dealing with things in my personal opinion, one is just to do whats ethically right, another is to spend energy to overcome obstacles which deal with enduring while issues happening, and the third is understanding the situation.

Just read the post title and thought i'd share some truth and insight into the matter. Believe me or not. I don't really care. Although take what i say and and try and learn more with it (for your own benefit) I think you will find that i am right. Although weather i'm right about this or not does not matter. Facts, Joints poping while doing regular exercise means nothing harmful. Its natural. I'm sure in TCM or other Western practices theres ways to keep the body from doing this through some sort of practice, or herbs. Purposely popping, cracking, locking joints until they crack crack "CAN" be very bad for you. Like in Tai Chi if your body isn't healthy enough and you use to much force, you can hurt yourself. Or another example, of weight lifting if you over extend yourself forcefully you are more prone to hurting yourself. popping and cracking joints regularly i guess theres nothing wrong with it but if that happens you may also get used to that sort of reasoning where you are "used to the notion of cracking body parts" I'm sure you'll run into many times were you can almost get out a crack and in ending up and doing so you could slowly degenerate your body over time easily. I'd say all around habits are not very healthy i mean as long as you can't control the habit itself. I personally believe this because i also believe anything can be unhealthy for you in excessive amounts.

To others and Zhongyongdaoist As you see me regress in the amount and/or the way i post, I would like to point out i am spending time reading posts, and don't want to make anyone feel as if i did injustice by not reading the posts. I identify with the meditation lingo "developing the witness". I would like to learn more from anyone on the subject.

Let me be clear just to be clear for "the sakes of being clear" I can entertain the idea of exchange of energy between two people while interacting for a little while before I start to question and try to understand about whats really going on between the interaction... what kind of relationship am i really getting myself into, before spending time to get to know the persons intentions and their true interactions. I'm a male, and i find its kind of like the interplay of me talking with a female whom of course attraction and flirting is going on. I don't drive immediately into a relationship with them without knowing them and understanding there intentions and interests. I also on the other hand understand my interests and goals may be completely based on superficial things that have little meaning to self growth, and I am not interested in making bad choices. While discovering my arrogance and stupidity of what i have subconsciously produced or tried to I of course would like to take proper action and the right thing which would be the opposite of the superficial thing.

I will offer you this special piece of advice, and of course this is an opened forum so others will obviously get this insight weather i actually want them to or not. The point of me saying this is for the better and not for the worse. Taking that into account I will take the action of Non Action to those whom use this advice to lure me. As I've found people actually do do such things, even on a TAO forum like this, even in buddhist temples. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its actually quite interesting on a completely intellectual level why and how people in buddhist temples, tao practitioners do such things. Its even funnier that I am a on the road to be a martial artist because of fact i grew up in a family were the motto for everyone around me was its better to be a bad guy to mess with others so you could possibly get some benefit when you bring down someone. At the same time me living in a family with that as "The Motto" and that I happen not to choose to follow the "The Family Motto". I've still found while I'm trying to figure out the best way to get rid of others bringing me down for their benefit i continue to fail at it. Its funny because right now in my life I'm realizing everything in my life that i thought was so complicated, is extremely simple and easy. At least only recently. But some how I still fail to figure things out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So back to offering some special piece of insight about me that only has to do about currently where i am on my path: To drop indirectness and trying to get me to do something, have more hidden intentions no matter how good willed they are for me (I may not actually be interested in them) Where only expressing "openly through words" sharing some insight of reality (things i'm missing in the picture to help myself out) can change me from doing nothing to help myself to the extremely of helping myself out greatly far and wide. The difference is everyone wants to play a game just to enter into that sort of relationship between two people where two people speak "openly through words" sharing insight of reality that people are missing in the picture. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Working for something spending time for something, which is only a external way of doing some sort of energy work to help yourself or others out is a waste of time, at least in the sense when the intention is based upon some BS isn't the type of relationship that i'm interested in. When we sit in meditation (energy work) to benefit ourself, or help others (for whatever energy exchange is going on) we do that intentionally, and taught how to do so. While we are talking and conversing we are inwardly working on ourselves or just keeping everything in tune inwardly while conversing.

What powerful words. This is your view point, Which i don't claim to disagree with. Wondrous question... Why would one try to hide in an effort to transcend the everyday?

Very nicely said... Another term would be Motion within Stillness.

Well personally I would choose to understand all the different types of explanations you offered. (As probably noticed once you started to explain almost all those different types, which i should also find some energy to make sure i read through it all) I also just want to point out one thing... That I'm the Year of the Tiger. A White Tiger happens to be my favorite animal and my forum name. After I did a little looking up and cross referenced once through the net i found... that I'm born as a Red Tiger. I never intended to confuse my actual forum name with my birth.

I was wondering if we could talk more privately. Zhongyongdaoist, sincere regards... wTiger.

Personally I can say the definition of the word... ONLY the word is Energy Work. Although, seeing parts and pieces of different Qigong lots seem to be incomplete, or serves a function lesser then what i personally seek. (The whole picture type of thing) When we look at more whole practices or maybe better said "encompassing the whole" practices a great definition way to call it would be "the art of nourishing life"

Thank you Stigweard I very much enjoyed that post (I did spend a good amount of time reading that post) I am not finding a good or strong enough connection to the cause of the "consciousness that has been distorted away from from it's pristine nature." so i can once correct the pristine nature. (I'm loving these terms... giving me some education perms often found in Buddhism which i do need to spend more time learning about) I understand the fact that my I'm having trouble finding my true Yin and Yang because they do not come from my Zhong is part... or the way to fix me moving forward so i can find these psychodiverticuli. But i do seem to be still in distress for I'm missing key components that aren't making sense. I should stick to my practices, the fear that is left with me, when i practice these practices whom is the one giving me guidance or help through these practices. Remember these old teachers used and abused me. But i guess thats no reason not to put effort into practicing and giving lots of hard work time and effort.