WhiteTiger

Lets not get confused with a very light feeling you might have in your legs or other parts of your body after having sex. This light feeling is just blood not in those areas. Through personal experience I've felt my dan tien temporarily drained... changing or sometimes being extremely bring to work back energy immediately back up to full power (if you know what I mean, if you don't just call me crazy then ) Smile, I think most people don't really totally understand what congenital Jing is. I was taught that you can practically never replenish it and food does not repenish congenital Jing. If I'm not mistaken though, there is acquired Jing though. Correct me if i'm wrong but it comes from acquired Qi that is transmuted into Jing this is to some how reconnect with whatever we have left of congenital Jing. Through this we can sustain ourselves through the cosmos. I find it very interesting that most Taoism has a whole big set of ways to follow of processes that have to be followed that brings about some ability (this ability is normal because it occurs normally... just through rare set of processes) I know in martial arts, at least Chinese martial arts there is a really big importance put on practice. This has to do with experiencing things. This is important because you can understand it all you want analytically or intellectually... even going so far as to read books and learn from there. But its important to practice also to have a personalized reference to what your trying to analyze, or intellectualize. So even if you mind is not made up on this subject or what people are talking about i think people should continue to practice.

If you continue to practice you surely will find the answer from experiencing different postures. I know your curious mind might be thinking and wanting to know before you practice which is always nice. But if you practice itself will reveal the answer. Which will always be much better answer then words can describe alone.

Pranaman, there are many different practices. Their are many that had children to reproduce. I'm sure there are even Masters today that they fooled around a little bit... or even a lot... but they also spend lots more time and energy becoming masters. If you think about it in basics, Long time ago man only did these things to reproduce. Thats right they didn't really fool around. When you fool around it feels good and its fun right... well there are many other ways that feel good and is fun that give you better benefits. Thats at least the way i like to look at it... I'll give you a basic example. I like to exercise, that is fun and it feels good. But i also exercise for a specific purpose... something more than just doing it for fun and feels good.

Honestly I'm getting tired talking as if I'm trying to convince people that don't want to be convinced. Its as if even if i gave documented proof people wouldn't listen to me. Some of this nonsense understanding can be understood through basic science... there are many discussions on these forums and others how Taoism is thee science. While this technically can be seen as 100% correct we don't even need to go into Taoism as a science to prove lots of these falsehoods. Starch is a carbohydrate... Let me list some FACTS of what are considered Carbohydrates YOU SHOULDN'T BE SUPPRISED! insoluble fiber, Soluble fiber (but those are just BROAD CATAGORIES for more information on fiber and functions...http://www.healthgoods.com/education/nutrition_information/Nutrition_and_Health/fiber_health_of_it.htm ) Fiber is a type of carbohydrate... YEP... thats right carbohydrate... everyone talking about these subjects should know this. lets take about another carbohydrate, like complex... just a big chain (molecularly of starches) simple carbohydrates, like sugar! another carbohydrate yep sugar. Ok you guys getting the picture. Lets go over the things that aren't carbohydrates than. Ok, Fats, Which are tectonically called lipids. There are a bunch of different types... Those are not carbohyrates those are lipids. This includes Alcohol as a type of lipid. and Protein... thats right... there are so many different types of proteins. Many many different compositions of 20-21 different amino acids which make up a protein. Thats it fokes the rest can be considered your not supposed to eat or a carbohydrate. Now the function of carbohydrates and which ones you want in you AND FROM WHAT SOURCE... more importantly we all hope that the soil it grew in is full of rich soil... making its produce good healthy food for us to eat. Thats the real question. Problem 1. Wheat... you see there are many different types of wheats out there and the ones commercially sold are the ones over MANY MANY years have been cross cropped (farm engineered) to make it taste better be richer in minerals vitaims and more balanced in carbohydrates and so forth... the same with legumes (the many many verity of beans there are out there) Thats correct... There are problems that can be found with just about every legume. Most types of wheat thats right problems found... these are reasons if they effect your body reasons not to eat them... just like soy beans. The same thing happened. You can get a great understanding just from modern science alone. Yes there are many problems with the agriculture world, but not because it wasn't good for us to eat it to begin with but rather because the way we cultivated it was poor or we tried to experiment before we actually understood what we were doing. If you really wanna do all the research to prove me wrong here are the links:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat#Genetics Check out what Durum wheat is made and how old that is. also check out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat#Plant_breeding If i can remember theres a book by this guy i can't remember his name he was very well known for experimenting on different types of beans... he also did corn... if or when i remember his name i'll look up a book and you will have a referances and explainations of things wrong with at least 75% all the legumes currently known to us. Great in theory make it work and test it out on people... or look up readings on akins diet and meterial out there why its bad for you. I promise you can find modern scientific proof. Sounds like lots of Vitamin D and some E there...

While this information might be correct... there have been many types of Taoist diets and they have dieted that way depending upon the purpose. The purpose is key to the diet. I will not claim to understand or know different diets. I have only read about certain things at certain times being in taoist diets. But diet is different when your meditating all day sitting in a cave for weeks on end compared to a taoist diet were your supplementing for what your not getting. There is many qigong practices of balancing and bringing back to health. Food is a side thing to compensate for a taoist that is not practicing many hours of the day. The only time a Taoist Diet comes into actual importance is for two reasons. 1. Your using it to compensate for what you don't get. (which your life style should fix or change, and eating differently or using chinese herbs are only supposed to help you out if you practices are not fixing this. Talking at least from a teachers perspective that knows more than enough about qigong practices that they can choose to do anything they want.) 2. Your trying to optimize your practices of doing hours on end meditation or trying to grow at a extremely fast rate and optimizing this you need to change not only how many hours you do meditation or qigong, neigong exercises but rather you change your diet habits too. Depending what type of exercise you do YOU DO EAT GRAINS! I honestly don't know what this fixation on not eating grains is. I've heard stories of a Taoist Master that used to eat a handful of rice per day, and the rest was purely vegetables and a little fruit. Another humongous misconception is for long lasting energy there are many fruits you don't need to eat at all. There high in sugar, they lean towards short term energy... which is needed depending what your doing... like The Cloudwalking Owl said eat depending on what you feel. Just understanding what you need for when you have a feeling, is a different story. FYI: Soy beans were cultivated (farm way) by cross cropping different beans. it was the only bean they successfully made to having full protein. Some people think you can eat them alone and your fine. But anyone that knows about true nutrition will understand they are low in 2 amino acids... making them not a very good source of complete protein. Supplementing this with something else always helps the situation greatly. So basically they never grew in nature naturally. So while you think Taoists would have eaten thousands of years ago soy beans in reality they never even was soy beans that far back. Most beans were cross cropped also. I don't mean to start arguments or anything I am rather telling you my understanding... and some cold heart facts. A smart person would ask me why, instead of telling me I'm wrong.

Generally Wuji Standing is not necessarily different than other wuji standing... i believe (i could be wrong) but there are slightly different hand postures for it. Yes it basically restore prenatal chi... but thats because Prenatal chi is just one word for the same thing that many other taoist call it similar or different things, even though its the same. The way they choose to describe it will be slightly different although it is the same thing. (just different schools of thought really) As Li Jiong claimed The difference between this course is supposedly the Xuanji matrix. The transmitting of energy is what happens. many people do Wuji standing meditation without transmitting energy, and some do... by yourself it will take a very very long and hard time of lots and lots of effort to get anywhere. P.S. Billb how important is it to know if its similar to Winn's Form according to some book. I definately understand you would like to understand things on a intellectual level and have just normal questions out of curiosity, but the offering here is not of those these but the experience of these things. Than later go ahead expand as you will on your free time in talk about the feeling and so forth... the importance lies in experience which is done through diligent practice. Which the longer you are diligent the harder you work at the more experiences and more layers to the onion you peal. P.S.S. Through experience can you only learn to experience the Tao it is said. It is considered the best way and closest way for you to understand it best is by practice. Thus by practicing this will be the closest you can get the higher your awareness of higher states we can call them for lack of better words the closer you get to experiencing closer to the Tao. So basically the key thing is to experience, experience, and experience... at least thats the theory. which is done with hard diligent work, that takes time and lots of effort.

About the second day of the period... I'm not sure what that is... maybe working hard with your kidneys? Funny how that actually correlates to lots of energy, or you all a sudden producing lots of work... I guess if you want to have a somewhat healthy menstruation I guess. And thanks for the reply.

Pranaman, i think you misunderstood what i was saying. I was telling you thats what he teaches. If he is infact a martial artist (which you said he is... so thus he has to be) he teaches all that. All that is happening. Weather your actually aware of those exact things happening is a different story and there food for thought when you practice... actually i think good pieces of food for thought. Through practice can you understand things... but it takes lots of work and practice until your understanding of something starts to develop. He shouldn't have to talk you will learn these things. Its like reading a book. My martial arts teacher once asked me why i was spending so much time reading a fictional book. You don't learn things from a book. You learn things through experience. I looked at him. I didn't like the tone he said that comment to me. I stepped back I thought for a second or two. I came back and said to him I read to try and understand how to explain something better in words things i've already experienced. To understand better what is happening so I can better explain it to others. In martial arts when you fight enough people using one technique and in different situations learn how and when and why to use its variations of the technique you start to learn what feels to me like the art of this... how many fights do you think you have to be in to understand this... If you have a trustworthy practice partner you can conceptionalize these things through working your mind to try and figure these things out. Someone that has mastered a technique means that they mastered the art of one variation... lets say they mastered all the variations. They can explain it like no other. They can also do it like no other and teach it like no other. Wonder why Masters are called masters... although in modern days they call masters that aren't anywhere close to being real masters, oh well its a title now. This is similar to reading a book about experiences you've had but didn't fully understand it to explain it well into words... you learn and realize stuff from it. Crazy thing when I told my teacher this. He smiled at me. Only later after this i went home from practice it dawned on me he was completely and totally BSing me the whole way and I basically explained it to him... reading from a book is what got me to think about experiences i had on my OWN and helped me understand it better. The book just was the trigger to help get me to think about it. Experiences that i had in the past... meant i was learning stuff through practicing before. Basically my teacher was BSing me and i broke through the BS. I only realized it after i came home from practice.

Taomeow you make your points very clear. I get what your saying. I conceptionalize and understand from what you wrote where your coming from. (notice i didn't say i understand from experience or any of that junk) Many times people have to have reconditioned mind sets or understandings of things... I for one was not conditioned to see menstruation as disgusting. Nor do i think it is disgusting. I understand through what i was taught in Phsyical education classes on college level that because of menstruation women have to have so much more of many many different times of minerals and vitimans. So I can clearly understand how powerful this fluid can be. But you didn't really talk about how to understand it. So males can have a better understanding... not saying they will understand it like a women. More over what the opinion of a women in sync with the moon is and what she has to say about menstruation. Maybe you would be willing to share a little about it?

The real truth is if your tailbone... or your spine for that matter is healthy... in good shape there should be no problem to move it any which way... of course the horse stances dynamics will change slightly and have different rules because weight it changed and you must compensate. But the goal of conditioning to lengthening the spine is for health benefits. The goal of conditioning the body to tucking the tail bone forward is for martial benefits. Conditioning the body to move it in any direction with ease is purely, a show of good optimum healthiness. Side discussion: Some consider that if there is not a medical use for it, and just for show theres no point. Wushu is just for show... and as much as i like traditional martial arts way way more than Wushu. Weather its Wushu or traditional martial arts or yoga, or whatever it may be through exercising and having good ability in strength (also can be seen as energy) and flexibility (also can be seen as relaxation) and endurance(also can be seen as patience or persevering) might be beyond medical purposes because your healthy. My only retort to that is why stop at only warding off pain. when pain is gone, and only practicing when it comes back. I certainly would not stop only at warding off pain, I would eradicate any reason for that pain or medical issue. P.S. In all martial arts, in all medical practices (what comes to mind is medical qigong) and spirituality practices it all works upon making your health better. I was talking to two martial artist... one a assistant teacher and another one a teacher for many years. (Now i'm not saying i know more than them) But they told me that they didn't do any medical practices. They practice for fighting, Martial practices. I than told them to be a good fighter you must strengthen your organs you must strengthen your channels you must do the healing process on yourself if you are to be a fighter. This is the same with medical practices. This is the same with spiritual practices. Dispite what other people tell you this is the truth. I personally translate the following: Medical practices = Being a Healer Martial practices (although you have to heal yourself) = Fighting Spiritual practices = Growth

Sounds like a true modern day martial artist teacher (not master) trying to make money off of teaching martial arts. which can be done respectably. He is not spiritually evolved to the depth if there is an issue he has a hard time dealing with, well hes a martial artist. ROFL.

EEWWWW JunBao your being to nicy nicy buddhist on me. stop it.... your scaring me No but really, Buddhist, or Taoist both have a extremely intelligent way of dealing with things and i think Junbao is pointing out some subtleties that prove how you can handle it... Best way I can describe it, with using words, its the stuff thats said without saying it. HAHA ok too Tao for the general Western mind (sterio-typing honestly) I'll give an example. A person asks a question (No matter what there intention is) but you gotta say it in a sincere, and nice way with seeming humble. You wait patiently for the reply. As long as your directed the question to the right person, and you get no actual answer you can obviously tell there is a reason they didn't actually answer the question. You use the own skills at hand to understand the true situation keep it to yourself. Than just humbly and nicely do not continue anything else with the question. Your not trying to cause fights, your not trying to cause issues or problem your trying to conduct yourself in a proper manner this will earn you respect this way. Call it being nice, call it no bad karma whatever. but doing it this way would be a lot more tactile way of dealing with things. I most be honest that its not that easy to do, and its a little different when emotions are in the way. anyway its getting late for me BED TIME!

Oh i would love to take part in experiencing and seeing something like this happening... Of course in a respectful way we would see whom would need the humbling.

Thank you Pietro I'll read this stuff... I haven't studied this stuff in over a year and a half. Which means I definately have not been on top of the newest stuff out. Anyway before i read the study my understanding according to Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook. Carbohydrates are good for good long lasting energy which is actually pretty slowly digested and than later only put into energy through the body... as when i was working out i did tons and tons of cardio. I actually loved the grounding feeling that the carbs gave me, and the fact that my insulin wasn't going up and down all the time. Really helped my emotional and energetic balance a lot better. As my workouts evolved and my practices changed I started leaning away from so many carbs, and into WAY WAY more veggies and fruids mostly veggies but I definately had fruits too. I do eat the occasional fish, and more rarer lean chicken but honestly thats not to often. but thats because I was trying to keep a certain amount of muscle on me. Now days I'm more interested in TCM type diet and learning from there... but i haven't been in the game for a while. Remember what i said the point and effectiveness of the carbohydrate. Its important to understand its function... i think lots of people will just read over it and forget it... I even listed my source. If you want to check this out... we can honestly agrue till were blue in the fact but unless both sides are trying to learn and understand more about the situation than can one start to grow, evolve, do the changing thing... common does anyone forget what Taoism teaches us about change? It will happen when we grow and evolve.

What the heck is all this low on carbs stuff coming from? Honestly my opinion is get the right carbs. Refined carbs are not the right carbs. Its easier from Fruit to get non refined carbs. But eating things it ins whole form. Whole Wheat. Whole grains (i.e. Brown Rice) shouldn't honestly give you bad results. The carbs from most fruits are slightly different compared to stone ground whole wheat. I mean this is "classical what to eat 101". I mean its important to follow But i believe most people would already know this information now the USDA is more properly advocating int his direction. I mean honestly its even became American trend of what to eat. Its not rocket science. What seems to amaze me is that the market for refined foods are still widely available AND PEOPLE CONTINUE TO EAT THEM... specially our children or younger. I mean common, another big thing that they haven't strongly started advocating (At least the USDA) but is also becoming more popular and i believe many TCM agrees is preservatives, and how rediculously horrible they are for the body. Now, I'm nothing special but i've eatten 100% Organic foods for 9 months, eating only whole grains, unprocessed foods. All the food i consumed at least 80% of it was free from preservatives. When i stopped the diet the food restraunt i went to and ate deep fried food... My stomach didn't handle it a about 15-25 minutes after i ate it. I started feeling sick from it about an hour later. I would get sick on regular foods. I later learned that in agriculture the way to raise crops and that most of the veggies and fruids we buy in the stores are depleated of micro nutrients. This is caused from the way they raise up crops in the same soil. In the end i realized it was time for me to grow my own food. Learn from there although... it requires mass amounts of studying and it requires a lot more i could handle on my plate at the time. I honestly suggest read and study a bunch about this stuff before you go around posting about how you know this and that fact... if you have questions thats a different story... but i still think people should try and research about the information before they ask a question related.

Where did you get this information? You ever see the The Matrix Reloaded? Where they talk about cause and effect? Well its more of a underlying rule that applies to all. In this case it applies very well to language. I'll give you a small example, I say the phrase "I need water" Rings not so true. Its a little different if you experienced someone saying "I need water" because of course there is circumstances that you obviously in person are experiencing it. Its a big difference to put it in words than it is to explain through one on one interaction when the circomstances of the situation are properly understood. For example, Vigilant3 I personally don't remember Mantis saying his goal was to shed of body fat. While if i say "I need water to live" here it rings a little more true. But the problem with language is simply for people to properly understand what your saying you need to be very descriptive or give as many details about the circumstance as possible. How about I say, "I will die if i go without water for about 2 weeks" Even this is not very descriptive enough because you also get water substance from food, It could go on and on. This is also why people say something they learned to be a fact can often times found to be wrong. Because people don't understand the circumstances the fact rings true in. This is completely and totally dependent on how much Calories Mantis burns per day. Thats how you could get it 2,880. I used to work out and burn so many calories that I would need 3,200-3,400 (ranges on the day) per day to maintain my body weight. The healthier the food was the harder it was to eat 3,200 per day. Honestly its hard when most of your day consists of exercise and going to school. The little time you have left is buying the healthiest food I could get and cooking it. I weighed at the time 165 LB and it was hard to keep that up. Very hard for me. If i eat anything less than 2,800 calories in one day I would get sick, literally. If I didn't do enough cardio or continuous form practice (repeating my martial arts form a bunch of times consecutively, which is also cardio) I would also get sick. So instead I had to let go of some weight. I would consistently going back and forth from 155 through 165. Although The next step was the change me having 4 meals with two small snacks a day to trying out having 5 or 6 meals a day, with 3 snacks a day. I also had to keep on me some CLIF Nectar bars on me if i got really low on energy or if my insulin dropped to low for whatever life circumstances happened, where i missed a snack or a meal or something. Agreed, and *cries like a little baby* Thats what I said. Also insulin is a very plays a very important part in gaining and losing weight. From the healthy physical side of weight training, conditioning and composition, in todays modern way to gain and lose weight through cardio and weight lifting. Vigilant3, i also am wondering where nomad gets his or her information from. Although some of the things he said seems to make complete sense with what I'm personally studied. The general problem he talks about something I have no clue and can not comment on. I rather read up and learn myself if there is something I could learn. Nomad where do you get your information from?

This is correct. You have learned a great lesson here.

For me, BMI isn't very accurate. It seems to sometimes be pretty accurate and other times not... I'm not the average body type is my reasoning currently. I personally don't go by Body Mass Index. There are some decent scales on the market that send a small electrical pulse up the body to measure more or less your muscle fat ratio. Actually its not the muscle fat ratio. Its the body fat %

Well, he doesn't sound like you at all maybe. I normally when describing my little brother I definately Hate on him. But his problem with gaining weight sounds similar or the same as yours. He just didn't want to eat enough. I guess you found a way to eat more... I misunderstood what you were saying in the post i guess. I was only trying to offer some advice

Mantra68 so you stop talking about this topic without hitting on key points? To make such a bold claim you must realize you might have a bunch of people bothering you about things you say. I'm sure many people on this forum is very interested in comparing which Taoist methods are not as powerful as these Egyptian stuff or this predating Egyptian stuff? If you can't even give us one comparison why would we believe what you said? I'm not asking for any detailed information. PM it if you like if you don't want others to be enticed to ask you more questions on the subject. I once heard a pretty powerful Qigong teacher (more powerful than anyone I've met before) claim that original Xing Yi predated Yiquan and what lots of people are claiming about Yiquan is just BS. He made a really bold claim i wanted him to back it up. He didn't and he losses all creditability. That powerful qigong teacher just wanted to give lots of special credit to his Xing Yi teacher that he was trying to talk up.

You sound like me a year or two ago. My little brother got into weight lifting and wishes to do similar things as you and me. His problem is he can't put on weight, and Keep it. I shall use him as an example so you can learn what he does wrong and right and learn from that. His problem is fixed by just eating more food. He doesn't want to because then it could possibly add to fat gaining weight. Than I say well if you gain any fat in the process then you can just run. He claims that running is not very fun and to exhausting. Well yes it would be if its been so damn long since he ran and has been lifting, another likely cause is he can't get into the feeling of burning calories while he has none inside left to eat from. If he can't do the fundamentals of exercise he can't possibly expect to gain weight the way he wants. If he doesn't do cardio he can't expect to stay as slim as he is. The truth be told the more weight he puts on the more fat you can get away on your body with still seeing the muscles because the muscles are bigger in comparison. He also doesn't take that into account. Most of the time if you want to change your body its best to do it nice and slowly, gradually. Because well, it gives your body more time to adjust. In the end my little brothers problem is being narrow minded. He wants what he wants. Instead of listening to possibly helpful advice. He claims he doesn't want to do this or that, then in the end he doesn't get what he wants. He will learn through live about this or slowly very very slowly get better and not understand it. Unfortunately thats his choice. Ok... Mantis, so you have a hard time eating so much calories. Right? So lets first look at your body type first. How tall are you? How much do you weigh? Lets start with that. Than lets figure out what your current daily eating habits are. How much you eat and how often?

Very interesting. What Taoist methods are you referring to, when you say there more powerful? I guess if you say you don't speak much about Egyptian stuff I shouldn't even ask anything about it. I would be interested to hear what is the end goal of one complete Egyptian practice? That is if you are willing to answer the question.

You Raise some decent questions at hand. I don't attempt to answer these questions but I definately notice how strongly you feel about Max. I'm not denying this feeling, belief, knowledge you have about Max. My question is have you studied extensively with Wang Li Ping, to properly compare? I would definately give Max the benefit of the doubt that he knows lots. He might even be high Qi gong level, and maybe even high Nei Gong level. I can tell you this though he sounds pretty extremely exclusive on lots of the other things he does knows. He raises many peoples desires by teaching Kunlun and maybe if your lucky or get good enough talks about teaching other considered high level practices, but if he knows so much more why does he stop there to entice others. Why is there any need for what appears to me to be deception? From studying the book Art of War by Sun Tzu it talks about deception playing a big role in winning battles and wars. Edited misspellings.

I did not mean to come across disrespectful and I'm sorry if i did. I did not mean to come off saying its not gratifying to learn something so basic. Basic things can be a good strong foundation fixing weaker foundations. This is as i understand an important rule to follow. I'm sorry if i came across like I was saying basic things aren't gratifying. I think with me a lot of the things get lost in the translation unless you openly come up and start talking about the more specifics to conform weather I'm doing something proper or not. Otherwise I often see it as unworthy. Maybe this in my own illusion but simply put, I normally don't feel comfortable unless I'm practicing with the teacher or they are willing to openly explain the all the finer details.

Nice post once again!