WhiteTiger

This is totally off the topic of this forum... so i'll make this short but sweet. When I did the little studying of history I learned. That the definition of Shamanism (or at least the word) was very widely used to mean slightly different things through different cultures. A more modern definition that encompasses many different cultures definition was basically Shamanism means a practice of practices (some call them religion's) that was different or not accepted throughout the specific culture calling the other practice shamanism. For example, Roman's called the Hun's belief practices shamanism. (At least the parts that couldn't be understood) This word is often similar or the same as when talking about religions in the eastern world as esoteric. (but when you study the practices, or religion, even through there are considered esoteric you realize that they seem perfectly normal. Just the outside views them as esoteric)

Well, recently I've been going up hill lately but i just now realize that i spend much to much time on The Tao Bums. I personally like to practice hardcore... engrossing my whole life around my own practice and make my living life my practice... integrate my life with my own wisdom or things I've learned, and practices I've been taught. I honestly don't think i can get back on my path without taking at the least a small brake from here. Smile, Taomeow, i will miss your posts. StarJumper, will be slightly free from trying to figure you out, for your pretty damn complicated , but still enjoy many many things you say. Lin, farewell, hope to hear more of the great talks you've been describing lately in the future. Its great to have someone on the forum that can put things into words so well... specially about things way above my reading level. Mal, (i'll still be checking in i think little here and there just for book club stuff in hopes something about the books are actually written) I will also spend time reading Taoist Yoga... so i will have much to share on that subject mal and for others. HEHE your a cool person... i'm sure you've read many many things... i would just say try and practice more... learn from experience (not that you don't already just i think its more important to do that then intellectually understand things through reading... at least if its not based on understanding past experiences of yourself) xuesheng will never miss the things you say. I can wait to learn more about internal martial arts. So i can have more indepth detailed descussions with you. Oolong Rabbit, i very much like your responses. They are always taken from a good mindset of well thoughtout understandings. Wun Yuen Gong, always like what you got to say also. will miss ya. VCraigP always enjoy what you have to say. Ok well i understand I don't necessarily make lots of friends but that doesn't mean I'm not observing and knowing this... its rather I'm an inward person. Always working on the inward... if I'm very negative I seek help but often come out as an angry person so sorry to all if i did this... even if i had a reason I'm sure i could have handled it a better way. So in a way I'm definately saying sorry to anyone i outlasted in the past to. Well i think i've outlasted my stay and even though i want to say more... i shouldn't So good bye... hope i didn't miss anyone.

Thanks very much I am also looking for a taoist teacher... I don't want to stop practice and studying from outside sources in the mean time... but to search for a taoist teacher... well I'm at a loss of how to do this... i mean its normally they find you... i need to arrive how to properly go about fastening the pace of myself development and maturity in the low ability I'm currently at to properly display my previously achieved abilities or knowledge. Well a state i can properly present myself. Which is harder then it seems

Mind explaining to me Lin a little more about this for me... I looked it up tied to a Buddhist practice but could you please expand on it for me whom (me, I) do not understand

Very smart... but you said "Then at that point, what's the point of talking about it?" MANY REASONS to help out others to teach others to grow and so forth. Make the world a better place... i understand you comment was referring to yourself strictly... Lin are you saying you just want to be a Cival person, and not a good person. What i mean cival conduct yourself well and by a good person you help out others?

I just gave some really good important wisdom right here... how the hell are people missing this? I mean its not like most of you guys don't understand what I'm saying. Some of you guys can actually put it in to better words then I (at least thats what i believe) But HONESTLY!, you continue to contradict yourself. Talking about these things but going back and forth saying words can not properly describe these things... sure this is true... the art with words lie the ability to use vocabulary is such a art (the study of language and a creative way of using the words well together is how that is defined)... many people can pride themselves on this ability (yes i don't believe i'm that good at it) but if that pride is any sort of ego you got a problem. (doesn't directly attack anyone by directly pointing out but common guys figure it out). Here i'll go first I HAVE EGO! I WORK WITH IT EVERY DAY TRYING TO FIX IT, TO NOT GET STUCK ON ILLUSION. MOST LIKELY CAUSED BY MY OWN EGO! But if through words we can understand personal experiences that do properly convey (to some level, which is blinded by words, so understanding one another is very important... which means we personally have to define what we mean when we say certain words I.E. different peoples definition of enlightenment. this is because there might only be one true definition but if another person doesn't have the same definition (meaning there talking about something different) I, and i hope others would like to know. To understand what one talks about rather how well they put something into words is a TAOIST TRAIT, (not saying others don't practice it also... i think all people whom meditate would for the most part practice this) also found in many people who have much wisdom or have experienced much, I'm sure many Buddhists practice this too. Its one thing to say someone is incorrect (personally i normally look at that online as bashing other people) while on the other hand its another situation if you point out a flaw... if the person is sensitive, please say so... SO i can go about it in a much more nicer way with words... (or gosh even give me some flack about it) Ok yes, i dislike Starjumper bashing everyone... i honestly think its propaganda to try and get others clouded mentally in anger, and/or trying to get lots attracted to what he says. While if the readers can take a step back and listen its a smart strategy, otherwise its stupid. It depends on the reader. This is where the problem falls. Sorry, StarJumper, no harmful feeling meant by this. But thats honestly how i view the way you act... or at least the reason you act.

I don't mean to be mean Lin, But StarJumper, from his description of him unable to define (what he means by) Bliss, and Enlightenment, already shows he has problems with the idea at hand. This is because he chooses to talk about it (which of course words can not make up for experiences, but if the person we are talking to has experienced it in our life and can understand it from our own experience we can learn the real knowledge involved) only point to talking about such things... other then that to get an idea about something, which could at any moment be false. SO that can not be solely relied on) The fact that Lin stated that one can not define it means he has not experienced it... there for he can not talk about the sensations of it. He might have glimpses into it, from concepts he has read, tried to understand and heard from others, but like I said this doesn't count 100% because there is a chance of it being false. Lin, you have spent lots of time with these sorts of things. I applaud you for how well you describe experiences but this is one you, for whatever reason either don't know or purposely not telling us. Which makes you look bad in a if you compare it to the brightest purist light. StarJumper, thanks again for defining what you mean, I understand what your talking about but have not experienced it... so this is were my experience falls.

For the sake of this agruement StarJumper and Lin Can you please define your meaning of enlightenment and bliss... i'm pretty damn sure Lin's definition is much different then StarJumper's. Taoist practitioner speaking (and many Buddhist practices I'm sure...) According to your understanding definition this might be correct... but you might have missing pieces. Then again you might not, just didn't define exactly your understanding of it is Yes once again please define what a thought is, what is waking dreams. what thoughtless bliss is, and finally what sleeping dream. Although i get what a thought is (most likely just as your about to define it) but definately not a waking dream. I know what thoughtless is, but thoughtless bliss... i got not idea... and sleeping dream i most likely understand through experience but i like to have my bases covered if you care to explain... actually might be teaching me.

For me personally, I can learn to accept these negative and/or bad habbits, then let go of the fight against them the mind trying to analyze, deny or try change them. (Xuesheng, depends what you mean by feelings and emotions are natural and normal) But they should naturally flow (I believe). I totally and utterly disagree with choosing desired action (you shouldn't desire the action, or do the action... you should try and be free of desire. although our definitions might be colliding here) My definition of desire, is the flame in side that is talked about in Buddhism. My actions should not be based on desire, but rather pure clerity of ones self choice. AFTER the flame of desire is put out. (So in other words once you have nothing to push you towards desire of a pitfall of your own path, you can choose freely to deter off your path... but how many people do that... i personally can't imagine many but i guess some would) Anyone have any suggestions of my problem at hand... letting go isn't my whole issue i believe... but the fear i shall never get past them... sure i work towards changing them, but i often find myself lossing in the end.

Errr.... depends how they function... i don't know enough about the Chakras to say much about them. (make a quick note, I'm not 100% sure why i was taught this but i was taught to talk about the Dantian and meridians (or talking about both) Energy Fields, and the pathways being energy paths to the energy fields. What I can say is the Chakras is quite different then the the these energy fields. They are for different purposes but yet can have very similar or same side-effects (if that is the write word to describe it) Yet they're still slightly different. This is where the art of English comes in to play a major role in talking about these things AND one can only truly understand these things properly after mastering each thing. They are a bunch of Taoist schools that integrate somehow safely (at least i've heard of it) the supposedly named "Buddhist" Chakras with the supposedly named "Taoist" Energy Fields. Although it would be quite a journey to try and do both. But more importantly... (read qoute) Yes, why if taught a practice one way add something foreign. He didn't teach it to you that way. I'm sure there are some people that call Qigong that happens to work with Chakras (for me to say if thats Qigong or not isn't my place) I believe there are places (I don't know currently but they used to) Hua shan teaches both. If you want to search for some well known traditions that teach both. I know some Tibetan Buddhism do stuff with energy fields and Chakras. Supposedly claims from the book Opening the Dragon Gate practices both also. So yeah master one of them and continue to master your whole system... if you can actually get that far (and you teacher actually wants to get you that far) then go master a system that deals with the Chakra system. Then you can clearly define the difference for yourself. Thats how you learn for yourself, if you really want to know. I actually wanted to start a topic about this... talking about the differences.

Taomeow, What i meant was basically, depending upon what Taoist sections he has and is practicing under gives me a guide of which are the nuances of your Taoist teachers practices. Which is one thing I would be interested In. There of course is a whole philosophy of the reason a certain practice is done this way. I was wondering later what i could ask and learn from you. (with a set up of question answer kind of thing... of course in each question and answer personal views will be added in. not purely the philosophical reasons why something is done... as if its complete and total fact. Maybe you would be willing to share some of the meditations you do , or maybe not. I was in the presence of a Southern Kung Fu teacher that if i had learned half of what he knew i would become a renowned fighter. Well maybe thats horribly said... if i knew half of what he knew, and i trained as hard as he trainned then I would be a very well known fighter. If you claim its morsel of your teachers teachings and the stuff you've been going over for a while on both forums then she must be really great.

Before i actually read what anyone has responed to my question or the other things on this topic, i realized why in fighting, why one would go back and forth. Cheers for me *happy*

So I'm a complete beginner to Meditation. I was wondering and hoping one whom has studied in depth (with practiced, or practiced and read in depth) Might be able to explain the many different types of meditation and which seperates each from another. Another question is alchemical proccesses actually considered meditation, or more of a nei gong or chain of Nei Gong? My understanding from by very limited studies and extremely limited experience. I know of a few different types of Meditation. (Please if i get this incorrect i would like and appreciate any corrections and will edit according) 1. Light meditation. (I'm a complete beginner in) Has to to all about picturing light. There are many different practices of them. But they all center on seeing different color(s) of light, specifically to strengthen the practitioner. 2. Emptiness. This implies to empty your cup no matter how little, or how much the cup is filled with substance is. The cup specifically talking about yourself as the vessel or cup and you empty it. I don't know how much more in depth i can get about emptiness meditation. lol. 3. Stillness meditation, To learn to quite your mind, and listen to all subtle things happen to you or even affecting you.

Of course I have. Thank you very much for your explanation xuesheng.

Have you actually mastered the mind being fully still and totally blank. If so maybe you could share a little about it? From my understanding Breath regulation is one of the most important parts of meditation. So i understand from experience how important it is. At the same time I learned to become in the "be the the presences" and also starting absorbing into the Tao without any awareness of breath regulation. (of course i was still breathing just not any taoist breathing method... well any ones that use the proper circulation of chi) edit: When i said From my understanding breath regulation is one of the most important parts of meditation (is dependant on what meditation your doing... i'm pretty sure lots of taoist meditation require the breath regulation is what i meant) When i said that it has nothing to do with So i understand from experience how important it is... i was talking personally about the breath regulation... i have experience in that. (so in other words because i have experience in breath regulation i understand how important it is... not saying the onion is fully peeled (knowing all of it, but yeah i've peeled a few layers deep )

That is well put, i also agree with this. It is believed that people have the choice to choose what they want. Because of ignorance and not knowing knowledge and/or wisdom they make bad discussions . When you really know some knowledge and/or wisdom share in hopes they will learn from there mistakes. You can't give up. I can't give up on loving my father even though he has emotionally, mentally, and through actions back stabbed me, wear i feel i can not deal with such pain or get over it. But i still try and love him and not give up on him. When it comes down to it, though its damn tough to deal with things like this. Maybe you think I'm off base here, because I am not talking about death. but i really am. My father Gave up loving my father in respect and made his own choice to go against his own fathers choice. Oh I still am relating to death. My grandfather that died recently. He died in a manner against his will. His leg was supposidly needed to be amputated. He wanted to keep it. The fact he didn't take care of in when he started having his problem was his first problem and signs of ignorance. His three children turned on him and finally made the decisioning for the doctor to take his leg away. It is believed by the Taoists this isn't the proper way. If the Taoist knows how to cure all from just sitting in meditation it is one thing. They also have some legends and/or stories in modern time about great healing abilities with really good rehab and/or herbs to treating cuts so deep like clean sword cuts back in the hand to hand combat and weapon killing times. Almost all his digity was taken away without his leg, the chances of him surviving after they took his leg was 50/50% they said... but we all knew his heart was only at 15-20% of its normal ability. (50/50% wasn't a realistic estimate) despite what the doctor said about 50/50 i knew if you took his leg you took his freedom of choice, to chose his own path. No matter how ignorant it may be. If he didn't have the state of mind to make the choice I understand there would be a totally different story. I hope best of luck and good wishes for great and unbelievable recoveries to take place.

I thought i put into words many times throughout my long long a$$ post that i agree with this... and i believe everyone else does.

Why does your Taoist Master go to extremes of Yin and Yang, while your Tai Chi teacher is the middle way? I'm not a seasoned Tai Chi'er yet. but before i ever started on my journey i was attracted to the Middle way. Mind explaining a little on the difference of Extreme Yin and Extreme Yang? What wisdom of use or why the use of this? Does she have a husband, are they sharing the balancing of Yin and Yang to balance each other out. Or rather she is in constant fighting. Always in flux, going back and forth as she chooses with all her wisdom and/or knowledge how to best teach or do good as it is considered. I understand Yin and Yang only recently how negative can actually help me (which i always found myself fighting against). (what can i say i'm a man, i know the uses of positive hehehe, i guess that isn't actually funny at all ) Might you also be willing to say on this forum what sect she had learned from in the past and currently.

So some more questions about meditation. I always thought of emptiness meditation as, well just emptying your vessel (what you have cultivated or even cultivating while you empty but thats kinda different and complicated and gets into a whole other discussion that i don't want to actually get into) You being your vessel or inside what you have cultivated... Is there more to it then just that...? A personal question what if you are practicing emptiness (just emptying your vessel nothing else) and thoughts arise and you focus and focus but for whatever reason you cant continue to empty... like a whole junk of your mind is taken over? What can one do... this is last i left off... any insight or suggestions? (this would be very highly appreciated)

Cool effects on the masters side, but i can't believe how fake all the martial art movements are. (after watching the first 30 seconds) So unrealistic and unfun to watch. If it has a story line it would be a different story... i'll finish watching the rest i might try and get a hold of it to see if it has a good story line thanks for sharing... but damn the kicks are WEAK!!! SLOW AS HELL and martially crap, (I studied a Northern Kung Fu where your kicks gotta be the best... even though mine weren't i definately know what the best was... but honestly i think i could have done almost as good kicks as he was doing when i was practicing my Kung Fu ROFL)

In response to the many people (i.e. Pietro) whom want to know if others are interested to be 100% honest i am interested. (for the full sponsorship) I haven't worked out details and i believe I'm not exactly what Dao Zhen is looking for. Although I am i currently trying to sort things in my mind that proves to show me, and most likely also him through our e-mails and my follow through that I am un-eligible. (Dao Zhen, I'm not at all offended if you want to openly say you don't think I'm ready, i don't think i am, any other words you have or wisdom you can share on the matter would help) I also believe that i strive very hard for my goals when given the opportunity. I do think i'm to low in ability, for most to think I'm unworthy. (i understand where your point of view lies) (at least i do understand how some would start to think that, and i would also like to claim i don't think that I'm a better candidate then others) People keep on saying please say so if your interested... I am interested. Those are my opened, and honest view points on the matter. I am in no way voting for myself. Trying to be nice and opened to all about my personal intentions Thanks and good blessing to all