WhiteTiger

I've been attacked before where it through me, i don't know if you must know how to utilize your chi, but it was a spiraling motion taught (what i was told) Ba Gua. Where the practioner through me and i went back about 4 or 5 feet. I wasn't trying to resist it at all... infact it felt uncomfortable as if he was attacking my energy... my cultivated ability. So i was also trying to stay as far away from the whatever the hell i felt he projecting in a destructive way. Even talking about it makes me kinda relive what heppened. I naturally just laughed while my throat opened up completely in and vibrating from the laughter. I did feel a slight but did not stay consistent after i was attacked that as inside my belly area things were not working. I think from the little i've studied this is was in a destructive manner of lowering my functions (elements in my body, Taoist organs have elements in each one) After he demonstrated on me the uncomfortable feeling slowly dissipated. He of course asked me in a nice concerned voice if i was ok. another thing he had said was he was a internal martial artist he didn't believe in grabbing my arm using his thumb. He grabbed me and through me with only 4 fingers on my wrist granted a i was allowing myself to move back i didn't feel comfortable or safe. So i tried as best as i could to stay away from that we can call destructive force. From then on I learned from him (He was one of my teachers) that i didn't want to ever question things i didn't see or understand anymore. But hopfully learn these things without getting hurt once again. Another time with a different teacher my arm was grabbed pulling on it i was decently (for my level at the time) hit right slightly higher then the bicep's tendon that connects into where the elbow area is. I felt weakness throughout my hold body time slowed honestly, and my concentration had gone and i felt weakness in my whole body but my muscles of my legs were in a stance and i couldn't sustain myself i dropped straight down. Without ability to control myself. After I immediately got up and really thought I could handle another one that hard and I told him I was not ready for that. Not in full concentration, to resist things happening to me like that so I strained my brain and concentration with my awareness opened as best as i could for the next one. He said sorry he thought i could handle it he didn't really hit me that hard. I already understood his intention wasn't to hurt me. I knew this I felt it. He did also react slightly in some surprise to me falling down. Although i can't be 100% sure of how well my awareness was at the state of it happening to me. Did it again not as hard and I felt the weakness all over me. Starting to realize if he hit me just as hard as the first time maybe i wouldn't be able to continue standing no matter how i strained my concentration my brain to focus and to open my awareness as much as i have cultivated it to. I knew I would still feel the weakness all over and wouldn't really be able to do something or counter it if i was already hit. I'm still extremely skeptic about this stuff... but I've felt some things in the past. I am a testimonial of things like this happening... then again I'm not in any way trying to profit from it, nor am i trying to give money to my teachers by telling whom did this and so forth. Also want to say I know there are ways to strengthen this functions or elements within the body that are connected to an organ (two actually, you could call one solid organs and the other hallow organs.) As to what activities or ways to strengthen them no teacher has clearily stated.

I was taught that you shouldn't have the bottom of your tailbone go lower then your knees. I would personally, not being a teacher but yet also reencouraging what my teacher taught me your mabu shouldn't go so low that the bottom of your tail bone (the tip) doesn't go lower then your knees. It loses the purpose of how we generate force, the way a mabu does is one reason not to do it. (if we do this practice) Second reason is if your feet are parallel with two shoulder widths apart or wider i believe you can easily damage yourself. but the one rule about conditioning is you can always condition your body to do all sorts of things... so i'm sure this can be proven wrong.

I watched that video, I can criticize him on a few of things... of course when we look at some of the most top athletes in Wushu and there physical ability. But thats much different in consideration. Honestly for his age thats amazing. Honestly when i was at my best physical shape of my life (which is short and i still just popped out of the whom) I could not do better then he did. Although one of my biggest i things i work on is flowing (As long as the form calls for it continuously and we all know very few forms actually do that unless you turn it into an exercise). Thanks for sharing I liked it very much!

Instead of Editing what i said to add, or clarify what i really meant. I decided that i would repost with qouting myself to where i feel i didn't make something clear. It might be a small something but in the end it changes the meaning. I said "which is why most people only know of it through practice." Taking from context of my qoute you see above, i would like to add the following: Which is why most people only have understanding of this Vitality through sheer practice of the Nei Gong arts. The more you learn and the deeper you go into this vitality the more deeper you understanding becomes. The more richer you knowledge is I shall say.

Honestly I think some good wisdom would be to try something once. The more you expand while making it your own will teach you to understand the purpose of the technique or thing your expanding. You can then choose to do whatever you like with it. Feel free to think whatever you want with it. But more importantly the knocking of Kunlun or anything else is really pointless in my opinion. You can only really know untill you tried it. But honestly how much money does it require you to give out to try it? I truly believe 100% all martial art schools should give you your first class free. My old school gave you first class free... later changed it to first two classes free. and later changed it, to first week free. Attending one subject (the one they urged you to go to met four times a week) if you were to make time to go there for 4 times a week you could easily got to understand something without any money you had to pay! So number one problem i see is how much money to i have to fork over.

I only read the first post. I personally got into a big discussion of how important Nei Gong is to Tai Chi. I am linking the topic. http://www.thetaobums.com/different-teachi...aiji-t4404.html My only point i was trying to make is for all the Tai Chi practitioners that thought they were learning tai chi couldn't be learning Tai Chi unless they learned Nei Gong, maybe not full blown Nei Gong but began the beginning of it. I also am not affiliated with the tai chi association i mention in the forum but that is a good example of a place that openly teaches a whole bunch of things from the start, this includes Nei Gong! I shall clearly state that I do not have enough experience to clearly define what the difference between QiGong and Nei Gong is i will also clearly state i know enough to honestly through some experience, to tell weather people know what there talking about or not. If i practice something, and only feel a few sensations here and there I'm waiting to learn more until i have truly learned all of the Nei Gong! Although i continuously say that I'm a beginner student, its always good to have knowledge about things before you are giving your money away and learning relatively nothing. I spent three years practicing Kung Fu. I felt I learned less then the amount I payed for. By a whole lot! (Yes i felt cheated, and it was supposidly one of the best schools around, better then any other schools in the area at the time, through the three years I of course got to know other schools in the area, (not as if i looked at all of them, but i still thought little of them) Here is a bit of special knowledge for everyone that doesn't know. Nei Gong directly works with longevity, starting with inner first and turning into outer. A good example of how It turns into outer is by giving you vitality. The meaning of Vitality as being an outer or external happening gets into Chinese Philosophy, Thought and structure of Chinese thought comes from their culture. (What some would claim Taoist and or Buddhists practices and philosophy) If you don't agree that Vitality is an external or outer example of Nei Gong practice then you hold issue not with Nei Gong itself but with the Chinese thought and philosophy. Which is why most people only know of it through practice.

Thats what i've been trying to say the whole time!!! Thank god you met a teacher under a watchful eye!!! And trust me when i say you also might not have the ability to go into what is considered a static stances, that has been evolved. That takes much time and practice and understanding the exercise properly. I do believe it gets more complicated talking about internal stance static trainning. If i were doing Santi For 3 minutes and it was only slightly evolved and it was a short santi, not even a medium or long one. but proper position if i could do that for three minutes i would be very proud of myself. Sucks i learned so little of Xingyi. Thats what I'm talking about evolved Mabu is not easy, on the muscles and i'm not sure i ever got it into the feel of internal prosperities or at least understanding it from the feel. But the external part yes to some degree. This is what i'm talking about when i talk about a stance form, or something being evolved. You start from where your at, once your body opens up more, becomes is proper alignment and just feels better (positive and good sensations) then your evolving your body! this can take years... depending on peoples body and what we are talking about evolving but yes it can take years! Agrees and understands! From small experiences might be more beginner like but still i'm with you and fully agree with you once again!

Level 1 is or should be nothing in all reality. Its the first stage! How many stages are there? Much more then one, at least 3. How many people have gotten to all of them? The more free information you get the more you will get people attracted. If it really is a good experience. On top of that if level one seems to be hard for so many people... which from discriptions from other people it does, then you would think even more people would come to max even pay max just to learn this stuff. Right? Please say so if you don't agree. I would be interested in why you disagree. Maybe something i missed and didn't realize. (now don't get me wrong i'm not trying to act as a authority on the matter, but just try and understand what i mean from my point of view, i even look at the opposite of what i'm thinking and compare it) I know i would be bought by level 1 if i found it really that hard. If i found it to easy getting from stage one to three wouldn't that difficult therefore i wouldn't search to pay more money right? Honestly is my thinking correct or incorrect? I'm just thinking in mathematically what do you guys think?

*Raises hand* I have not

Wang Liping was taught by three Taoist teachers, each specializing in separate things. Jiang i believe was also taught by three different teachers, Wang Liping wasn't the only one. In fact (don't qoute me on this) if my understanding is correct i think maybe other teachers from another system ended up teaching Jiang also. I find it very smart at the same time weird with the fact that people from one system don't like another but yet they are willing to end up teaching an inheritor.

Edite: I posted the same post two times by accident.

So I was listening to the Youtube video you gave a link to and i really enjoyed it so I was looking at other ancient songs that are very well known and/or even famous and i came across this one (linked below) and it was utterly great. I can't even find words to explain how great it was! it was super-dooper-fan-tidly-atistic:

Whatever you mean by that totally went over my head. You asked me "who Disses who?" if you would like to know I might be willing to tell you privately. Some where internal martial artists, some were external martial artists and some were both. What do you mean what about my compulsive ranking list btw? and Kosher? I'll remember to laugh later But as for publically saying certain teachers names (teachers that aren't mentioned on this forum thank god, from what I've read in all the posts so far) But there are many. Almost every martial artist teacher I have met. I often ask when asking to find a new teacher, is the person extremely high spiritually. Most people say yes, meaning his skills are very high, his Qigong practice is very good, maybe even Nei Gong, or Internal Alchemy. Which of course by the time I totally flee from them they didn't teach me any of that that stuff on a deeper level, (where they impart some good teachings to me) I was just scratching the outer surface. But yeah, as if there all fighters and braking me down. In my personal opinion, what i have practiced in the past has been so in my own privacy. Almost 100% around me were not peaceful people. That were trying to do harm in some sort of way. Lead me off my path. How do you trust these people like this. You want to learn the good stuff people have to teach you but can I bare the bad stuff they bring to the table, or try and get me involved with. Its like a consistent battle with almost every single person i meet. Even if I'm doing something wrong... there not in the bad at all, they can't let me learn from my own mistakes? Of course if I'm completely in the wrong they shouldn't support my burden, do they want to eventually fall like me? In my personal prospective I truly believe 100% people should not brake you down, but give you building block to strengthen yourself so then you can let go of whatever bad tools you are wielding. Maybe this isn't the right way and I'm completely wrong, and thats the answer why I am currently suffering. But let it be known at least i don't try and balance it out. So i can live with myself as a person that does continuously bad things to whatever small degree or big degree it could possibly be.

All I got to say about this... I sometimes go back and forth not realizing fully that I'm saying something is really wrong. While I might specially entering into a martial arts place (DO NOT JUDGE) But I do realize often times lots of things that are different and from what i learned incorrect. Personally i think my teaching of Chinese Martial Arts isn't very good one, ridged and different, while my understanding of the way it isn't ridged at all, but yet flowing. The softer it is, the more gentle it is, the more it is like water making valleys (a path) through mountains. But I must say almost every martial artist I've met and learned a few things here and there, they all do make fun of others or disrespect other martial artists. To me this is one key thing when I see makes them a bad martial artist... no matter how good the teaching is if the teacher does this disrespectful thing i immediately flee from learning from them again. I have some serious issues... (as of late... or for a few months before I came on this forum) I can tell you I never always had these issues. The way I must come across when one talks about something they don't understand as if they understand I feel the need to come in a clear things up. This way might be slightly vicious and i would also like to apologize for it. I am currently trying not to do it again. Even though it might not come across very strong it is still very wrong. I know this post was not blaming me. But i felt a need just to say this. Get it out of my system, and explain it to everyone else that I do keep good practices in mind, and try and become a better person even though I'm not necessarily in a better place.

I'm Jewish, born and raised in my young childhood (dissipated when in my earily teens) Although in Hebrew school I would sing songs and read parts of the Torah in singing voice. I remember of it (Even with people in the school i disliked) it was very wonderful and joyace experience every time i got we sang together. Always felt nice. After a while of doing that continuously as a child, and then end up singing those songs when i was older would being back that great feeling, or what I'm pretty sure are reminding of the vibrations I or body used to have at the time maybe even reproducing them once again. Either way good feelings all around. ahhh... those were the days. But i'm not claiming that it would encourage my spirituality. Then again my mind isn't close to the fact that it could have also.

Great quote!

Very well said... And i agree with it all. I didn't even think of talking about lactic acid. Yes, practice of Mabu stance static. is for strengthening. When you go deeper and into one more properly, for martial use you become more flexible in the areas you need to achieve a better mabu. But mabu in its use is used in movement you don't stay there... in external to achieve your path or to evolve, you must eventually turn into intneral, or let go. You can not fill an empty vessel fully with the use of cultivation of external. never will it get 100%. You can never go against the Tao. Even when you go a different path, then some preach you still are most likely not going against the Tao, if you do you will not be going against the tao for long. You gain these abilities going along with the Tao. (Btw, lactic acid is calmed to be a way to do external turning it into internal from the way of trying to bring about as much lactic acid, i tried to understand this a little more but realized its kinda pointless in theory. The ability to learn how to raise up the ability to deal with as much lactic acid... its the reasons why External has its uses) According to internalists (i said that for a few different reasons i'm not just talking about internal martial artists, also talking about anyone whom does Internal Alchemy, or just plan works on the inner) at higher levels if you continue things start to unfold. Whereas you stay healthy and the things you just happen to be surviving you eventually overcome this. The fact that the mind wants to choose to stick to a external to be in control is straying from internal.

This is correct. I'm here talking about an action. Not standing like a post. When you were in horse stance while whipping your waist (your waist and your shoulders should be square, or parallel) extend your fist. The heel of the right foot should move back putting your right foot in a 45 degree angle. Depending exactly what southern style they might make slight adjustments on your left foot to move in a 45 degree just like your right but there are some that have it stay planted. Body weight must be low, the lower you are the more you can play with the weight you have to whip with. You should be in a Kung Bu (bow and arrow stance) now with your first extended. This is describing something I do know and thaddeus said, "For example, many people believe the bones are used primarily to transfer forces, that may not be true, they may be more like spacers in the body." Many martial artists do believe that bones are used to transfer force. (primarily i don't know where you got that idea from... that makes me think that you are describing as the main use of the bones, while they already serve many other uses. Taoist Texts talk about unity, the Ultimate One, where things or everything is connected are we missing this understanding? The bone is one with the body, it serves its function that maybe many different things some might be small parts of what the bones are used for and other might be big parts of what the bones are used for in the body) I didn't study a southern martial art for years. This is an example of a move an action. Generating force, or creating power. This was just another good example. I thought because i know less in depth about it it would serve as a better example because it wouldn't get so complicated in explanation verbally, without showing you through a video. I would say I don't really know, because honestly I'm practicing humbling myself. I'm not a teacher, I'm not a an expert on the subject, i don't know a whole system of a southern kung fu, I don't know a big part of a a southern system because i studied it for years. Do you know anything about southern martial arts? This explanation of using power is a good one. Makes me wonder if you know what your talking about. please enlighten me if you know about any southern style, maybe i could learn a thing or two otherwise, i don't know why you would say such a thing honestly. To tell you the truth to say something to be is like discriminating me, telling me that what i know is no good. Making me look as if I don't know much (at least to others, when you put it in words like this) Unless you know better and think my example poor. Please explain so i can learn, just like the reason i wrote anything in this post. Question: Do you study Southern Kung Fu? If so, willing to give a better example? If not, can you give a better examples then I gave for how the bones are used to transfer force? Side Note: This whipping motion is found in many Southern Styles, like so well known Hung Gar. Buddy I think you missed the whole point... did you read what we were talking about. The Subject has slightly changed. Was trying to give an idea of how Bones are used to transfer force.

Then it isn't a muscle, there is a contradiction already. Just restating: there are three different types of muscles in the body. They all are built differently to contract for different reasons, so they contract slightly differently as a whole. Must like this is a Misinterpretation psoas muscle is a skeletal muscle. It is flexed voluntarily. According to Wikipedia it flexes and rotates laterally thigh. I don't know exercises that target this muscle, but honestly wouldn't be to hard to learn, for me at least. Find a good teacher... always good to have good connections. specially if your into this sort of thing. Also when working out... try or attempt to learn your progress through non action. While practicing non action try to look inward. Then it isn't a muscle. There is a contradiction already. Just restating: there are three different types of muscles in the body. They all are built differently to be used for different reasons. So they have slightly different functions but yet similar. Unless there is a forth type of muscle and that is it. If you think about it, this muscle would have to serve a slightly different function then all the other three types of muscles. I reread parts of my post and i didn't clearly explain some things about how bones transfer force without even getting into the physics of it. Northern systems like Mi Sung Chuan (and others) standing straight up you lower your weight and push of with one leg. Keeping in mind important principles of he Three Outer Harmonies Shoulder turns with the hip. Elbow and knee act in unison. Hand moves with the foot. and keep in mind these External Connections Feet - Knees Knees - Hips Hips - Shoulders as turning into a straight bow and arrow stance, KungBu then fully extend you fist. Right there. you have learned how to use your whole weight of the body. To add the extra force of you pushing off with the leg once you learn how to do that with continuously having your body weight at a low but continuously same plane. (as long as your waist is on the same plane never picking up or droping more) On top of that if your conditioned well you get a powerful blow. Super basic, some of the first things you learn nothing special. You learn that the extension of your body, the body alignment and your bones play a big role in making this happen. This example is supposed to slightly give you an idea or illustration of how your bones are used to primarily transfer force. Maybe the question is what should we define as force. In Southern systems they often use Whiping power. Most general or common example of this is the whipping power of the waste. Fi Ching (don't know how to properly spell it) the wiping power from a mabu stance and extending your your fist as your turn into a bow and arrow stance is whipping power of the waist. (i didn't study or practice southern Kung Fu so please bare with me) the fact that you used the force of your waist whipping is where the energy is happening. But more importantly the fact that your bones hold your structure of your body. Nor your fist is extended more so then if you were just in a straight mabu and extending your fist. this is basically because your waist and shoulder is moved your shoulder is facing one of your sides. This means the extra you gained some reach. with this reach it is because of your bones themselves that hold your structure together like i said and the extra reach with the power of the whipping the waist packs a bunch. Specially if your have practiced this and learned how to give power. Also known as Strong Fi Ching. Yep thats correct! Skeletal muscles serve as both... Mover and stabilizer is more of a term, for a type of action that your muscles can do. Some muscles serve more as a mover while others serve more as a stabilizer. But they act in unity. If you study how muscles contract and work the muscle itself has to have some range of motion to work. Some might be smaller then others though. Meaning that they serve more as stabilizer muscles, while bigger ones serve as mover muscles. Then it gets into physics of how they are placed and strands are. How they contract... angles vectors So forth and so forth. (in the end depends what motion your doing to serve what purpose. Hope this stuff helps

Looking forward to it!!! I love this website i'm learning more and more about things i wanna learn about... the specific names... and so forth! I LOVE IT I TELL YEAH!

Genius! When it becomes more and more evolved for static work... the targeting of more tendons and smaller muscles inside the knee is a Mabu that has been developed a little. This is only the foundation though. This is only to exercise the body. Its different when Moving. You must realize that in Taoist teachings/texts there is something called the Ultimate One or the theory of Unity. who is talking about pure stabilizer muscles. Personally i don't agree it works the pure stabilizer muscles. But if were talking about targeting certain muscles and tendons for foundation thats a different story. From foundation you can work through moving the better your foundation the better your moving should be. You must also realize that in Taoist teachings/texts there is something called change. The only thing that in constant is change. Change will happen. You can be sure of it. From my understanding your claiming that martial artists believe bones are used to primarily to transfer forces... i don't know how told or taught you that... but the body works in unison. Yes the theory of body alignment the use of your lots or all body weight transfers force your force. Muscles and Tendons and how to unitize them is a different story... and involve many different techniques. Honestly it is improper to say there are two types of muscles in the body. What you really mean depending what motion your doing. there are three basic muscles parts working. Depending on what action or exercise your doing determines exactly what the function of these certain muscles are. One act as the stablizers, two act as the ones that are directly being used in big ranges of motion for the specific action your doing. The others (i forget the name proper name off hand) they work synergistically together, taking the opposite force that you happen to be applying to them from the motion your doing, and get worked less) Those muscles are really what they call the ones not targeted withing the work out but still have to be exercised thus why i am claiming to call them the ones that synergistically work together with the muscles that are the moving in big ranges of motion. This gets into weight training and theories on the matter. According to anatomy, there are three types of muscles in the body. Skeletal muscles more well known as (which is techniqually nickname) voluntary muscles is more common understood name, those are the ones we normally think of lifting weights. Its the muscles ones we use to change the motion of our limbs. Smooth muscles, internal organs that are also more well known as involuntary muscles. It is believe by westerns from my readings that Involuntary muscles can not be changed voluntarily. I don't think all western doctors believe this but this is what is mainly taught in school. I think thats been a long misperception either in our teachings or really we westerns are not taught correctly. The third type of Muscle in the body is Cardiac Muscles. There are three types of muscles for different functions in the body and are built different in according Picture of the muscles under microscope (not a very good one better to show you one with each fibers of the muscle difference would give you better idea): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...cle_tissues.jpg Smooth Muscles link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth_muscle Cardiac Muscles link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_muscle Skeletal Muscle link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_muscle Also realize that lots of chinese might know some of what there talking about but don't have the proper words to articulate them well enough for us to really get what there saying. Just clearing up a bunch of things.

Dream practice, i would like to read more about this. Wondering if this Lama's Tibetan Yoga, comes from Tibetan Buddhists practice and/or Khajagan Sufis practices?

Wow good stuff to hear... like this so far. Lots of things I haven't learned about. Makes me want to find a teacher to teach this stuff immidately! Actually having problems fighting a good teacher in any internal martial arts

First i want to point out my personal opinion about Bruce Lee, Not that i've studyed all his life and history. But to me he seemed weather he had ability or not an arogant person. And yes i thought he has enourmus ability and knew quite a bit, not like he was a Great Master or a Grand Master but his fighting abilities were great. Yes, as generally something is taught to you simply. You learn it simply. You think it is simple. Then it evolves you learn how complicated it really is. Then after you have mastered if. IF YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MASTERED THE MOVE. I don't mean got it down well, i don't mean be an expert on the move, i don't mean do it better then anyone you've ever seen do it. I MEAN MASTERED IT! Then it will become simple to you again. I personally have never mastered a move. I could say some of the most basic things evolved with it and understood many parts of it and began to get lots or even most of the principles one a few of the most basic things. But as my limited understanding according to what I have ready in Tao Te Ching it should become Simple again. (this is also according to my Kung Fu teacher) Once you have mastered a move one has fully understand the all the principles involved an can manipulate its use and ability.