oat1239

Maybe he is a student of Shi Delon? Shi Delon does that sort of thing in the UK. http://www.shaolin.org.uk/en/chikung/

Hi Old Green. Thanks for your feedback. It would seem that at least some people are inclined to lump all 'spontaneous movement qigong' into the same pile, but I am still inclined to wonder if there are not at least some notable differences between the different forms/styles. I am hoping that someone who has studied directly with Shi DeLon, or with a very similar form/approach/style (see the videos), will show up and comment on their experiences with this type of spontaneous movement qigong and related practices. Shi DeLon's form/style seems to evoke a very strong catharsis type reaction in at least some people, so it would be interesting to get the perspective from people who have experienced this directly as well. I wonder if students of Shi DeLon who have experienced this directly find the results to be beneficial in both the short term and the long term. It is one thing to produce some interesting effects in the short term, but whether it produces benefits that last or increase over the long term would be interesting to know. Maybe one day I will have the opportunity to visit the teacher/school and speak to people there directly, if the group is still active.

Those are definitely very interesting results. Something like this still has to undergo a lot of scrutiny from the scientific community to see if the results will stand up to inspection, and ideally these results would need to be shown to be independently replicable. It will likely take some time: Antonio Ereditato, a spokesman for Opera, made it clear that while the team had looked hard for any measurement errors or other mistakes that could explain it, and found none, the results still needed careful checking: After many months of studies and cross checks we have not found any instrumental effect that could explain the result of the measurement. While OPERA researchers will continue their studies, we are also looking forward to independent measurements to fully assess the nature of this observation. The Cern research director, Sergio Bertolucci, followed up with a similar comment: When an experiment finds an apparently unbelievable result and can find no artefact of the measurement to account for it, its normal procedure to invite broader scrutiny, and this is exactly what the Opera collaboration is doing, its good scientific practice." "If this measurement is confirmed, it might change our view of physics, but we need to be sure that there are no other, more mundane, explanations. That will require independent measurements. At least one physicist, John P. Costella, Ph.D. from Melbourne, Australia, is already stating that the result is based on a statistical calculation error (PDF file): "I explain why today's claim of the OPERA group at CERN for having measured faster-than-light neutrinos is based on an incorrect statistical calculation." Why CERNs claims for faster-than-light neutrinos is wrong This will likely remain a hot debate item for quite some time to come. It will be interesting to see if the results can hold up to intense scrutiny from the scientific community.

You seem very sure that you know all the different possibilities and permutations. I remain not so sure.

Very interesting folks, the Kelloggs. Coincidentally, an acquaintence of mine mentioned to me last week that he had grown up as a Seventh-day Adventist and that he did not drink, smoke, or eat any red meat until he was an adult. Prior to that I had heard of the name Seventh-day Adventist but had never met anyone who was a member, nor did I know anything about what Seventh-day Adventist actually was other than being some sort of religion or church.

I see. Thanks for the comments. It's good to hear different perspectives and experiences.

Hi Friend. I already have described it somewhat. My experience is mainly with taoist stillness meditation and some forms of tai chi and qigong. These days I am mainly practicing a system of taoist cultivation practice that mainly involves various standing postures, bagua circle walking, and sitting meditation. I have never practiced any forms of spontaneous movement qigong, but I am interested in learning more about them. I too have been told by some of my teachers that one should not intentionally pursue spontaneous movement in qigong, but these teachers were not teaching a system of qigong that specifically promotes spontaneous movement, although some mentioned that some spontaneous movement might sometimes arise. The stillness meditation starts with very little and leads to less and less.

I was just thinking that labels are only labels for convenience but the label doesn't change what is being labelled. Maybe I am wrong however. It has been noted that how we look at or approach things can somtimes at least change the very nature of how the thing appears, or at least it changes our interaction with that thing. For example, light can be demonstrated to be both a particle (photon) or a wave depending on how the experiment is constructed. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle states something like that the more certain we know the position of a subatomic particle the less certain we can know its momentum and vice versa. So, the more we focus on one aspect, the more uncertain we will be able to determine the other aspect. If labels tend to encourage a particular focus then maybe they do affect the outcome. So maybe I am wrong. On the other hand, maybe I didn't follow what you were saying at all. They tend to put a lot of salt in cereal, and they sometimes also put a lot of sugar as well. The preservatives they put are probably not so good as well. Tony the Tiger was greaaaaaat. I always liked shredded wheat and corn flakes but the additives mentioned are probably not good for you. These days I prefer real oatmeal without sugar or salt. A good wholesome food.

My experience is not all approaches are the same. Each has its own natural way or natural cycle, but not all are the same. In some cases movement might arise and fall and continue to cycle and in some cases one only knows less and less.

Hi special -K-. Sure, labelling something one way or another doesn't change how it interacts or how it affects us and vice versa, but it can help to make a distinction between different things that work in different ways. Running and jumping for example may have a lot of common principles behind them such as leg movement and flexing of muscles and that sort of thing, but they can help us achieve different things. If someone needs to get over an obstacle on the ground they might try jumping over it if it is not too large, but if a wild tiger is attacking them they might want to try running instead of jumping. Sometimes you probably would want to use a combination of the two for best results. Although things can appear similar, they may produce quite different results. This is why I am hesitant to lump all spontaneous movement qigong into one, and am also hesitant to jump to conclusions about any form of it despite what it might look like on the surface.

Hey, no worries. I appreciate the feedback. I am wondering what lead you to the conclusion that is is definitely harmful to the qi and that any healing is not due to improved qi flow or the release of blockages? I am not saying I think you are necessarily not right, but just want to know what lead you to your conclusion?

I have experienced strong shaking of muscles or in the dantian area and that sort of thing when internal energy is moving within, and I have seen one of my teachers practicing an advanced form of internal qigong that moved him through various postures and movements while he was in a deep meditative state, but his movements were serene and controlled and methodical and cyclical. Not at all like the frantic type of movements and reactions shown by many in the videos I posted here. This is really something quite different than I personally have ever witnessed before. It really seems to me that not all spontaneous movement qigong or spontaneous movements in qigong is the same. What the exact differences are I wouldn't know however. Thanks for the reply.

Hi Friend. I can't tell from your reply if you watched any of the videos I posted or not, or if you have direct experience with the type of sponataneous movement qigong that is shown in those videos? The videos show something quite beyond a person just having some occasional or minor spontaneous movement. Many of these people seem to move around very frantically or strenuosly and some make all kinds of screaming and groaning noises or start crying or laughing, and that sort of thing. Some go into spontaneous five animal form movements which are supposed to be connected with cleansing and balancing of the five elements/organs, as shown in the first video. I personally am not so sure that we can lump all spontaneous movement qigong practices into one. The claim is made in the videos that it is helping for clearing energy and emotional blockages and that sort of thing, so it may have its place and purpose in the overall grand scheme of things, if true. I still can't be sure what to make of this sort of practice.

I wonder if we should be putting all spontaneous movement qigong in the same boat? I think it was the first video where some of the students gave first hand accounts of getting healed or getting improvement with various health problems or drug addiction problems. Whatever is going on, some students of the form taught in the videos claim to derive benefit from it.

Don't know. It appears that sometimes they use someone to catch people and sometimes they don't. Maybe it depends on how experienced the student is or what exactly is being done at the time?