Vmarco

Yes,...I appear, through my senses, to exist,...until I view myself through a microscope,...at first, my solid form is reduced to electrons,...but as I microfy the view,...even the electrons don't exist. Yes,...while dreaming at night, I appear to exist,...until I wake up. Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." “All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once.” René Descartes

Nice quote,...thanks. Watts is attempting to articulate a most important insight,...the relevance of which will determine who wakes up, and who remains asleep. No one, will ever understand Who they are, until they realize When they are, No one, will ever access Heart-Mind without understanding that there is no Present, Now, or Instant in time.

Will certainly take a read,...but first a few comments on the above. Why would a Westerner want to "really understand Taoism" from an Eastern perspective? Are there any Eastern Daoist masters who understand the Tao? To me, the Tao can NEVER be understood through belief,...belief is a barrier that obscures the Tao. IMO, those who have had a glimpse of the Tao, would agree with Buddhists who say, that the creator of the universe is not a god, but Avidya or ignorance,...and yet those caterpillars who expound on butterflies, as if they understood the nature of a butterfly, prefer tradition and belief over truth. Whether Western ignorance, or Eastern ignorance,...ignorance s ignorance. And as I've seen no indication of the ignorant accessing an awareness of the Tao,...why would I join in their diversion and distractive beliefs?

I wonder how Cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle would respond to that? In their No-Boundary theory, they said that since time loses characteristics that separate it from space, the concept of a beginning in time becomes meaningless. There is no BigBang, no singularity, creation or creator, because there is no time. Lao Tzu would have like Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle.

Couldn't pass up the opportunity. "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such." Max Planck, Nobel laureate As for Planets.... For anyone to say that the planets around us do not exert forces, albeit subtle, is like saying that the seasons do not affect the clothes that we wear or the foods that we crave. It would be like claiming that our moon has nothing to do with ocean’s tides or that the orbital distribution of electrons within an atom does not influence its nucleus. Viewing astrology only through the blinders of a sciential point of view, instead of through the point of view of what is being observed, is paralogical. To differentiate my assessment of astrology from a relative perspective, consider Bode’s law. If the earth were one measure from the Sun, then Mars would be 1.5, the asteroid belt 2.5, Jupiter 5, and Saturn 9.5, relationships less in relative distance than the particles within the volumes of many atoms. Of course,...as Planck suggested,...atoms don't exist.

Of course not,...thinking such stuff is a delusion. However, once you cease thinking,...because thinking can NEVER be in present,...you become aware that the life of thinking is actually a dream, and yes, a lie,...as in false,...the way things are not. When you cease thinking, and become aware of the Tao, you simultaneously are aware that this is a dream. You CANNOT become aware of the Tao while in the dream,...the dream has nothing to do with Tao,....except in that the dream effects its motions upon the Tao,...like a lever effects its motion upon a seesaw fulcrum. The fulcrum does not make the lever move,...nor is the lever part of the fulcrum. Of course, one must wake up as to the illusion of the lever first.

Actually,...matter is "divided light" not Undivided Light,...Yoda stated properly. We are not this crude matter. http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/?hl=%22what+is+light%22

Reminded of a presentation I gave to the NCGR on Oct 1, 2008,...it began like this: We all know that splitting an atom releases light,...matter into light. In 1995, at Stanford University, physicists reversed that process and made two particles of matter by supercharging a trillion-watt laser through a linear accelerator,...light into matter. Form, which is empty space that appears filled, is compressed, multiplied, centripetal particles of light. Empty space which appears unfilled, is expanded, divided, centrafugal waves of light. In a talk given to the Astrologer's Guild of America, called The Electric Nature of the Universe (June 1936), Walter Russell said, "Astrologers are asked: What relationship can people and planets have with each other? What possible relation can a planet so far away as Neptune have to do with an emotion occurring within us, or a decision which we make for ourselves? How can this far planet affect our lives? Neptune (he said) is not so very far away from us. It is part of our own solar system. The universe is made up of interlocking electric systems within each other. Every part of every system is directly connected with every other system. Relatively, the planets are as close together in the solar system as are the parts of any atomic system. Every microscopic electron in every star and galaxy is connected electrically by an intercommunicating flux. There are no two separate things in the universe. Everything in the universe is indissolubly tied to every other thing. The whole universe is just a series of quantitative material records of universe thought, placed there in potential relations one with another, in systems within systems. They have been gathered together in what we call "inanimate nature" or "inanimate life". There is no inanimate life in the universe. Everything in the universe lives. Everything in the universe breathes the breath of life and pulses with the universe, each in its own potential and its own rhythm. Every person born into a a material form has a rhythm of their own which is normal to them and them only. Each person's rhythm is determined at their birth moment. At that moment the countless billions of electric vibrations of the sun and all its planets are setting a rhythmic gauge upon the life of everyone who comes into material existence. Each person's rhythmic measure has as automatic an effect upon him as the pressing of any electric button has upon a bell. It is automatic. We cannot help it. Let us get to the root of the effect upon our emotions and lives which the masses of material matter which we call "planets" can cause. How can Jupiter or Neptune have any effect upon one's life or emotions? Many people think it is ridiculous but, on the contrary, it is the truest of truths. The reason is that planets are huge masses of light in motion, for all masses are light, even though they are not exhibiting a perceived incandescence. Any change of rhythm anywhere affects the whole electrodynamic universe."

I recall (dozens of years ago) having a conversation with a few folks on a nude beach,...after several minutes, one of them mentioned something about nudity, and I realized we were all naked. The point being (although a stretch), when I visit with people, for a few seconds or a few hours, I don't engage the garments, ie., beliefs, they chose to wear, but the conscious they had before they were born. I don't care if they're fat in the eyes of society,...nor do I really want to discuss their fattness. I know an 85 pound gal that thinks she's fat, and is constantly dieting. I like talking about the instant. Ever hear Dolano say, "where is it in the instant?" One of my favorite Youtubes.

While this thread is still hanging around,...which it should be,...I'll repeat: There is no Present in time. If you are observing anything as separate fom you (which can only occur in time), you are not in the Present. I fully agree with Merceless One above,...New Age purveyors are for the most part, deceivers. Most promote new ways of viewing their god,...as if they met him. Their version of Now is within the human sensory experience,...Buddhism and Daoism is about going beyond that,...uncovering the absolute Present, the absolute Now, the absolute Instant,...where time does not exist. The Truth can only be realized through the Present,...and there is no Present in time. If what you think is true is in time, from time, in any way part of time, it is not true. Truth does not change,...time does not cease changing.

Important for anyone wishing to uncover bodhicitta. The Lojong: look at everything you perceive as a dream....is called an Absolute Bodhicitta proverb, because through it, bodhicitta can be directly realized.

A Buddhist monk asked me yesterday, "you look so happy,...is it because you are here?" No, I responded, I'm happy everywhere. He was a young monk, although the head of a program at the university,...and he looked puzzled by my response. There are two happy's I said. One happy is the opposite of sad,...it comes from distractions and diversions of seeing things as they are not,...the other happy, does not have an opposite,...it sees things as they are. Theravadan Buddhists are not into waking up, nor seeing things as they are,...their's is more of a preparatory discipline for a future life. Their happy appears to come by way of distractions and diversions,...in their case, intellectual study,...thus the monk barely had a clue as to what I was talking about,...nevertheless, we continued for another hour. As Jed McKenna said,...there are no Butterfly experts among Caterpillars, although many Caterpillars profess to be. If you want to understand Butterflies, you must be a Butterfly. To be a Butterfly, you must not cling to any Caterpillarness,...including the idea that your enlightenment is for some future time. There is no time. And what is perceived as time, is merely one thing. Just as you will NEVER understand Who you are, until you realize When you are,...likewise, you will NEVER understand Why you are here, until you realize When you are here. The questions of Who, Why, What For, are futile without the When. Only through When, is there an awareness of the Suchness of everything.

Where did you get those ideas from? Sheeple don't want truth,...they want stories to make their belief systems more palatable. No one finds truth by looking for it,...you uncover truth by recognizing all that is false. Forget about truth,...instead seek honesty. Be impeccably honest. And truth will be uncovered. However, honesty is your death,...the death of who you think you are. If you don't have to go there,...why pretend as if you're trying,...that's not honest.

And fuxk Lao Tzu,...right? So why are you here? Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think (6 senses) is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth...the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go." If you want real, genuine happiness, let your human-ness go.

Why the fuxk would you want to give human emotions to robots? You want to create a SciFi race of Cylons? Human-ness is the problem,...not the solution. As for your imagined experiences...experience born of belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. Your posts indicate to me, that you have not once in this lifetime, had a direct experience. An important Lojong says, look at everything you perceive as a dream. The problem is that you believe the dream is genuine,..as in real. LOL

He's a happy guy because (as he says) he recognizes the need to let go of one's human-ness. And you are misinformed about Buddha,....Buddha purportedly said that he discovered something profound and luminous beyond all concepts. He tried to communicate that something with words, but few understood. So he said (Kalachakra) there shall be a Holy War in the future, when people will realize the dishonesty of their belief systems,...and in that time, the future buddha, Maitreya will arise, and bring thousands to enlightenment. In the meantime,...nirvana, or flip side of samsara, is fully available,...but it cannot be uncovered while clinging to your human-ness for your identity.

Most try to accumulate knowledge as if it had some real purpose,...other than sustaining the ego. I like this following quote" Every thought that provides you with an identity, be it positive or negative, is a fragment of the ego or mind-made sense of self. Most are under the impression that if enough thoughts are accumulated, these can be pieced together resulting is selfknowledge. This approach is purely psychological. Just as gathering enough leaves can never produce a tree, gathering thoughts will never produce anything more than a self-aware ego. http://enterthenew.com/Thoughts_to_Stop_Thinking.pdf

I wholly disgree. Judging, as in neti-neti, is how the false is recognized. As a famous New age Purveyor correctly said, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

Yes,...you think quite alot,...but what is this thinking you cling to as genuine? Before you spew any more thoughts,...try this,...what is thinking? Can you think in the Now, the Present, the Instant? No, you can not,...thinking is always in the past. What is genuine? To me, genuine is relating with what will never leave me, and from which I can never leave. I guarentee you,...Human Emotions will leave,...they my be admired,...put high on a pedistal,...but that does not make them any less delusional. Although most, like youself (as presented in your posts) feel that one's Human-ness is highly desireable,...in actuality, one's Human-ness is barrier to love,...that's basic Buddhism and Taoism. Check out this Youtube,...how many times does Don mention "human-ness"

As soon as you accept that you will NEVER uncover Who you are, until you realize When you are,....will you see diamond you actually are, instead of the mud you made to conceal it.

My mom is an average post-depression, capricorn female who follows the groupthink of the day. Although my childhood found me in out-of-the-box situations daily, there was no guidance from my family,...in the valley of the blind, the one-eyed person is treated for their illness. Many years ago I briefly wondered what if was around even one superior person during my first 19 years,...one encouraging person that said being out-of-the-box was ok. Instead I was raised in an environment where anything that was not normal, was abnormal,...even the supernormal. Things haven't changed much today. A Buddhist once said, “We condemn the real and we enforce the unreal, because the unreal is going to be helpful in an unreal society and the unreal is going to be convenient…A child is born in a society, and a society is already there with its fixed rules, regulations, behaviors and moralities which the child has to learn. When he will grow he will become false. Then children will be born to him, and he will help make them false, and this goes on and on. What to do?” That doesn't mean I don't care about my mother. My childhood, in hindsight, was helpful. It never put me in their box,...instead, I learned how to appear to be in the box, without ever being in box. For many years, and still, I have only a superficial relationship with sheeple,...but then, all sheeple relationships are superficial, even though they won't admit it.

To shift from one cancer to another, is not getting rid of the cancer. I have pondered upon the atheist movement,...the attachment to no god for one's identity. If it ever came to pass of them (the religion of atheism) having the control that the Abrahamic religions, we would surely be in a sad state.

I love people,...and because I love people, I do all I can to help ease their suffering,...even the cancers, like Christianity, which they cling to for their identity. A Christian is not the disease of Christianity, just as a woman with breast cancer is not Breast Cancer. I love the woman with beast cancer, but am intolerant of the breast cancer.

A real Buddhist is one who recognizes the problem of the 6 senses,...only egoists separate the brain from the other senses. The reality of this duality is that there is going to be no shift towards the Birthing of Human Beingness as long as the cancer of religion persists.

Ah!...you never read the Kalachakra....or maybe Buddha wasn't a real Buddhist,...probably not. Buddha was irreligious. “Do not accept anything by mere tradition. . . Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures. . . Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions.” Buddhists talk of the legend of Shambhala and a holy war to move humanity beyond faith-based ideas of good and evil. Shakyamuni Buddha predicted that a holy war would take place among humanity. Many say this war is near. A worldwide inner battle, and subsequent outer one, advancing an age of authentic spiritual consciousness. They say that the days of the Abrahamic meme-plex are numbered. Could the virus of Christianity be consigned to the back walls of museums in our generation? Tens of thousands of Buddhists have actually been instructed about the holy war through presentations of the Kalachakra initiation, a path to the birthing of spiritual beingness, which at its heart is an empowerment to elevate the precepts of love and compassion as per the teachings of the Vajradhara. The Kalachakra initiation is meant to plant a seed of a love that is not based on the insanity of fear and hope. It inspirits a fierce compassion that shines its light on every pile of shit, even the largest, that of Christianity. The Kalachakra initiation is a confirmation, an affirmation and a pledge to support the Shambhala war and to participate in the co-creation of peace on earth—a genuine peace that will reveal Shambhala. This is not a symbolic war, but an inner spiritual battle that will project to the outer. The inner always projects to the outer, and the outer is always a mirror image of the inner. The initiation is a commitment of true compassion that arises from the vow to liberate all sentient beings from their attachment to sentience,....not tolerating beliefs and continuing suffering. In a not too often discussed aspect of Buddhism, lamas spend years developing spiritual awareness in preparation for a journey to Shambhala, an invisible, hidden kingdom—a place of shamatha, where all have a full-spectrum consciousness of self. Shambhala is hidden because the world-at-large is attached to the insanity of religions and beliefs. If religionists knew of the existence of Shambhala, they would seek to destroy it in the name of their god. There a way to be FOR Non-theism without being AGAINST theism? Ghandhi was never against Britain, he was just for Indian Home Rule. Britain's once dominance over India and the Christian meme are not two different things though.. The Christian meme is a disease, the most series vile virus ever to afflict humanity, even worse than the other Abrahamic illnesses, and all known cancers combined. For the afflicted, they cling to this disease for their identity, obliviously ignorant of their insanity and the malignancy they sustain and propogate. Buddhism says that True Compassion does "not discriminate whether to reflect on a pile of shit or on a pile of rock or on a pile of diamonds. It reflects on everything it faces.” The existence of the Abrahamic religions is proof that there has been little true compassion in the world. The Buddhists talk of the legend of Shambhala and a holy war to move humanity beyond faith-based ideas of good and evil. Many say this war is near. A worldwide inner battle, subsequent outer one, advancing an age of authentic spiritual consciousness. They say that the days of the Abrahamic meme-plex are numbered. Could the virus of Christianity be consigned to the back walls of museums in our generation? A true Bodhisattva is intolerant of anything that steps between people and their direct experience,...people are not the cancer of their beliefs.