Vmarco

On the contrary,...you really must not comprehend my posts.

Yes,...that is correct. All beliefs are false, and all beliefs that beliefs are false is false. Yes,...the ultimate truth cannot be realized by the Head-Mind,...nor the other senses. However,...you last argument above is not correct. Do you think that Buddha, Lao Tzu, and many other Truth Realized persons only talked before they uncovered Truth Realization? LOL Your 6 senses (consciousness') do not vanquish when one realizes the consciousness they had before they were born,...what occurs is that one realizes the ridiculousness of the 6 senses. They continue to be used,...but not for the 6 senses sake. I understand you think that "ultimate truth can not be realized by the mind"...however, you should consider that your thinking is always false. Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth."

Of course,...finding a truth realized person could be advantegous, if one could recognize something, even one thing, that is true. Jed McKenna guarentees, that if one followed his one instruction, that anyone could be truth realized in under 2 years. What I can guarentee you, is that no Esoteric Christian, as long as they were an Esoteric Christian, can never uncover Truth Realization,...because all beliefs associated with the Abrahamic memes are barriers to Truth Realization. Even though you believe these friends of yours have experienced the Unconditional through Esoteric Christianity, what has it done for you,...except argue with me that your friends experienced the Unconditional. You are not Truth Realized,...what good is it to hang out with friends who say they are,...and have yet not shared with you a single absolute truth? Are you really so naive to believe that you have your truth, and I (not the egoic I) have another truth. All truth compliments all truth. "Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha I also guarentee you this,...if you cannot have a harmoneous interchange with me, then you have no wish to experience something true. As for time and energy,...I'm aware of exactly what they are. Truth realization has been my fulltime occupation since 1975,...and was even quite good at it before that. If there was a PhD on the subject, I'd be 6 times above that,...the only oxymoron here is your belief that Esoteric Christianity leads to Truth Realization. http://thetaobums.com/topic/19563-oxymorons-that-hinder-awakening/?hl=oxymoron

Neo-Advaitin? Esoteric Christianity doesn't even come close:

Dominicus,...your posts reveal that you have not had a direct experience with anything. Like the whole of Esoteric Christianity, you are claiming something that is impossible. Experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief.. I understand that you place monks/hermits on pedestals of admiration for their inter-faith advocacy,...and as such, it is quite difficult for you to see that everything you thought is meaning is rather meaningless. You spent much time and energy attempting to hold together a reality that is merely a dream. Just reduce all you can gather about Buddhism and Taoism into a single idea: Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." Buddha said, "the Tathagata does not come and go." That is the only Unconditionality. Esoteric Christianity is not even close. I can also understand dreamers like Paulno, who feel the need to strike out against, saying how hateful is VMarco. The truth is quite upsetting for believers,...and they typically set out to kill those who challenge their beliefs. What doesn't come and go? The Present. The Present, that is the absolute Present, cannot be revealed through any form of Christianity or Abrahamic religion. The Present is only revealed when delusions such as any form of Christianity or Abramhamic religion is let go. Buddhism says,...and is implied in Taoism,...without the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, the true practice of compassion is impossible. So I'm not in the least bit worried that you guys could laugh with compassion, because a safe bet would be that they haven't a clue what real compassion is. "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." Robert Thurman commentary on the Dalai Lama's The Four Noble Truth's There are not many paths to enlightenment,...there is but one,...and that begins with the recognition that all beliefs are false.

After many years of study, of reducing most of the world's problems with beliefs into solutionable quanities, the obliteration of Christianity is humanities best possibility of survival and evolution. With Christianity exposed as the lie it is, the remainder of religious beliefs would fold quickly, like a house of cards. Keep in mind, as John C. Green, director of the Ray C. Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at the University of Akron in Ohio said, that despite many variations, Christians generally adhere to four core beliefs: the Bible is without error, salvation comes through faith in Jesus and not good deeds, individuals must accept Jesus as adults and all Christians must evangelizes . Consider those core beliefs removed from the Belief Pollution Index. There will not be anarchy,...but a quantum leap to a level where honesty, rather than hope, faith, and fear of an invisible man, becomes important. Some may say that Islam is a bigger threat,...but the fact is, that Christianity enables the delusion of Islam. Consider the facts of Christianity, Why do people engage in such an absurdity as present-day Christianity? It does not take a degree in religious studies to see how Christianity got its deep grip on society. History is quite clear regarding the roots of this deception, which was firmly grounded by the end of the sixth century. Theodosian laws, for example, condemned all non-Christians, thus promoting ardent persecutions of freethinkers, deists, pantheists, polytheists, pagans, and others whose confiscated property enriched the new church. Then came the barbaric reign of Justinian, which barred anyone outside specific neo-Christian beliefs from civil service, and whose forced baptisms upon Arabs encouraged the way for the establishment of Islam. Christianity was spread through violence and now propagates its faith through the fortune raised from that violence. In the United States that is a serious felony, and their propagators are nothing less than accessory felons. Once people accept the truth of the Christian meme, the ridiculousness of Islam. Muslims, for example, unquestioningly accept the Shahada, that is, that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger. To understand the dynamics of that, simply ask a Muslim why he believes in the Qur’an, and he will say, "Because the Qur’an is the infallible words of Allah written by his prophet Muhammad." If you continue the inquiry and request that he divulge how he knows that Muhammad is Allah’s prophet, the Muslim will, without the slightest pondering, respond that he knows that Muhammad is Allah’s prophet because it says so right in the Qur’an. This is a faith-driven circular reasoning common to all three Abrahamic religions and their hundreds of denominations. They believe that their Holy Book is the correct Holy Book, and only their Holy Book correctly describes god. Today’s Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all sprang from the same germ: the story of Abraham, an Aryan migrant, who was probably from south central Asia in what is now Pakistan (see Jos. 24:2–3). Abraham (meaning multitude) appears to have fancied himself as Brahma (the root meaning of which is to expand). The similarities between Abraham and Brahma, the Hindu god born from Vishnu’s navel, are striking. For example, Brahma’s consort was his sister Sara, and Abraham’s wife was his sister Sarah (Gen. 20:12). It was through Sarah’s mendacity that Abraham’s first son, Ishmael, father of the Arabs, was swindled out of his inheritance, a fraud being perpetuated today by Sarah’s descendants upon the Palestinian people. Muhammad (570–632 CE), the Abrahamic teacher who, prompted by persecutions upon Arabs, such as those continued by Pope Gregory (540–604 CE), the Father of the Dark Ages, invented the Arab version of monotheism. Interestingly, this new religion supplied the pedophile prophet with many attractive wives, the youngest of whom is said to be nine-year-old. Unraveling the Qur’an’s self-authenticating meaning will occur organically, as Christianity is unwound. For when Christianity falls, and it will, the other Abrahamic religions will soon follow.

I have much compassion for the Pope and Christians, which is why I express so much intolerance of Christianity and all that steps between Popes, Christians, and Humanity, and their direct experience. From a spiritual point of view, not much is spiritual about Christianity and the other Abrahamic book religions or sets of beliefs. Spirituality could be said to be that which flows with spirit, the in-breath.out-breath, or Yang/Yin of perceived life. Spirit is that which is beyond hope, fear, faith, belief. Hope, fear, faith, belief are the bread-n-butter tenents of the Abrahamic religions. People are not their beliefs,...let me repeat,...people are not their beliefs. Anyone who believes that they are their beliefs is delusional,...as in asleep to the way things actually are. As all bodhisattvas, I have the utmost compassion for those who believe that they are their beliefs, and have a heart-felt wish for their liberation from their perceived sentience, from which Christians cling to their faith in Christianity. Real compassion, which only arises from seeing things as they are, observes the self-imposed suffering brought about by the perceptions of sentience, and smiles at their ignorance.

Vajrayana is a verifiable direct path to Undivided Light. Divided light is the illusion.

I studied Esoteric Christianity extensively,...and have seen no indication of enlightenment through that practice. Are you enlightened? I assure you, it will never occur through Esoteric Christianity. Your guy you know that says there is no Lao Tzu or Buddha,...does he also say there is no god? There is no Esoteric Christianity? I agree that there are many ways. "Not all spiritual paths lead to the Harmonious Oneness. Indeed, most are detours and distractions, nothing more." - Lao Tzu All paths can be reduced to two,...the Long Path, and the Short Path. All Christian paths, including all Esoteric Christian paths are Long paths. There are only two paths, and only one uncovers enlightenment,...the Short Path. Neither Buddhism nor Taoism in their essential forms, are about any union with the Absolute,...only the Abrahamic religions, including Esoteric Christianity are so arrogantly delusional to suggest such insanity. The Absolute is beyond the sum of opposites,...there is no union,...I guarantee it. Whenever someone goes spouting off about union, unity, etc., such is an instant tell that they haven't a clue about reality, or Suchness. No one who has uncovered Unconditionality, advocates conditions like "my path is better than yours." Please don't misinterpret the fact that Esoteric Christian does not lead to enlightenment, with anything else. Esoteric Christianity is a condition that steps between the seeker and any chance of a direct experience.

In the Hua Hu Ching 47 Lao Tzu said, "Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Religion is a distortion. Materialism is cruel. Blind spirituality is unreal." Don't want to debate the veracity of the Hua Hu Ching,...but it sounds right on to me. In the very next verse, Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." And, four verses further, Lao Tzu said, "Do you think you can clear your mind by sitting constantly in silent meditation? This makes your mind narrow, not clear." I love the Hua Hu Ching,...I recommend it to all who would like to uncover their light. Lao Tzu said, "there is nothing more futile and frustrating than relying on the mind. To arrive at the unshakable, you must befriend the Tao. To do this, quiet your thinking."

http://www.smokemachines.net/papal-smoke.shtml

I disagree. The origin of myths is from heads.

From how I understood it, they want a new one by Feb 28. Look for the smoke!

How can joy come from withining? From ego? It somehow arises from the core of the 5 skandhas? What is feeling? The Heart Sutra says that feeling is empty of nature,...so how is the feeling of joy real? Can peace and contentment ever be found in an object-ive world? Did not Lao Tzu say, "Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Religion is a distortion. Materialism is cruel. Blind spirituality is unreal." How can joy arise from Dualistic thinking, Religion, Materialism, or Blind spirituality? Well,...only if the joy is equally unreal.

Exactly! Through the observation of the perceived something from beyond the 6 senses. That's what nirvana is,...still on the lever, but over the fulcrum. Paranirvana is when the lever, which never existed, dissolves. Joy is the essence of how things are. From a sentient point of view, everything arises from the way things are not,...of course the sentient point of view wouldn't put it that way. The sentient point of view sees object-ive reality as real reality. Suppose all your interactions with perceived life pivoted from yesterday,...that is to say, you were consistantly 24 hours behind. People would think you're nuts,...a living-in-the-past psychosis. However,....what's the difference between living 24 hours behind, or 24 microseconds behind? Both are in the past. Real joy is in the present,...however, the 5 skandhas are never in the present,...thus, my joy has a relationship with that which is beyond the skandhas,...and is accessible to everyone. There is no present in time.

I started with the Yoga of Clear Light when 19,...which was rather easy for my temperment. For some reason, my first motto was that if it doesn't come easy, it's not worth having. The idea of having to learn and earn my way out of here, seemed like a total diversion,...as if I born for the Short Path. http://wisdomsgoldenrod.org/notebooks/ Thus,...always keep an eye out for kindred spirits who have the urge to wake up in this lifetime.

This will surely invite mischief,...but, I'm always in joy,...at least I don't recall not being so for several years. I haven't a soul-mate,...never had a partner that could engage in conscious love,...don't own a home,...my only vehicle has been in a transmission shop since Nov 27,...haven't lived to work live since 1974,...haven't been bored since 1972,...I find that the absolute bodhicitta lojong are absolutely true. Imagine stepping into someone's dream,...fully understanding that you stepped into someone's dream. No matter what was being drempt, you see it for what itis,...a dream,...and it's very amusing. The key, or what both Taoism and Buddhism are ultimately pointing to, is seeing things as they are. That is the punchline of prajnaparamita. The heart of the prajnaparamita is the Heart Sutra,...the best available commentary on the prajnaparamita is The Heart Attack Sutra. Most people can uncover reality through the Heart Sutra,...although the shortest prajnaparamita Sutra is just a one syllable word. Hui Neng (later to be the 6th Zen Patriarch) supposedly heard one sentence written by Hung Jen, and instantly was said to have realized Enlightenment,...which could translate to a somewhat state of enjoyment. What is enjoyment? Is it nirvana? What's nirvana,...except for the opposite of samsara,...both are impermanent. My impression is that neither Lao Tzu or Sakyamuni wanted people to stop at nirvana,...but go further. As for my response,...my enjoyment comes from observing the false.

Well,...there is no surrender,...although, one may not realize that until after one surrenders.

Yep,...that's prudent advice. Nor are there bodhisattva's, or any sentient beings. LOL

I love this prose, written by a Canadian: "Waking up is not necessarily pleasant; you get to see why all this time, you chose to sleep. When you wake up the first thing you will see is Reality does not exist for you, you exist for it. Shocking as it is when you let it in, there is rest. You do not have to labor anymore to hold together a reality that does not exist; forcing something to be real that is not real. You and this life you have been living are not real ... In letting it in, even through the shock... pain... shattering, there is rest. Reality is when all you want to know is what is true ...just so that you can let it in and be true. Reality is not a safe place for you - the you that you have created. It is the only place where you would die; where there is no room for your hopes, your dreams. Once you have let it in, once you begin to re-awaken; to let Reality wake you up, nothing can get it out. That is the beginning of your end. Waking up can be much more painful than the agony of your dream, but waking up is real."

Vajrayana = "The clear light of [Vajrayana] cannot be revealed, By the canonical scriptures or metaphysical treatises, Of the Mantravada, the Paramitas or the Tripitaka; The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals." Christianity,...whether Esoteric or Fundamental, does not have the same goal as Vajrayana,...nor could ever realize the goal of Vajrayana, even by sheer luck. The beginning of Vajrayana is letting go of any faith in a god,...so at best, esoteric Christianity is that which is before the beginning of Vajrayana.

Your fixed beliefs about Jesus and Christianity are impermanent, because they are untrue, and will eventually dissipate, so as to lose their grip on you. Regardless of your current beliefs,...religion, that is, a set of beliefs, is always false. Looking for something good in the false just makes no sense to me. Yes,...many of the historical Christian posts here, were also posted last year in another thread. Because many here don't read last years posts, it seemed appropriate to post them here, where they argue the posts in this thread. Most of the historical Christian content here in this thread, contains over 20 years research, and were part of an International Writing Competition, of which I won first place, by way of several Religious Scholar judges. Nothing in the essay Christianity Uncovered has been, or is likely to be found false. Your Wiki quote on Flavius Josephus is quite surprising, and quite unaccurate, as if planted by an Christian Apologist. I'll repeat: "Sciolistic Christians vaunt that the historian Josephus, in two remarks that have been taken out of context, verifies that Jesus/Yeshua existed. Today, however, even conservative scholars agree that those quotations from chapters 18 and 20 of the Jewish Antiquities, a history of the Jews, were later Christian interpolations. Such conclusions are consistent with Origen, an ante-Nicene father, who in the third century CE indicated that such a declaration from Josephus of a Jesus Christ did not exist in his copy of the Jewish Antiquities. Furthermore, no one else before the fourth century CE ever mentioned such an important reference from this often-cited source." V I'm very disappointed, and very saddened by the Wiki clip. Seems the truth has been relegated to second hand sites: http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm As for only the word Father could attributed to a Jesus, by Religious Scholars, as quoted,...this occurred around 1988, and I first read of it in a Sunday newspaper. These scholars, members of the Westar Institute, have resoundly bullied by the Christian faithful, and thus no need for me to search out their findings, for you would not believe them anyway,...although Jesuit Rev. Edward Beutner certainly does. It makes sense that the Rev was removed,...kind of like Christians discredited Scott Ritter for speaking against the illegal invasion of Iraq. Christian BS,..attempting to cling to their faith, is likely the most bizarre maddness, bar none. Their god is not the Tao,...the Tao can NEVER be realized through their god. This has nothing to do with some imagined chip you'd like to see on my shoulder so you faith appears more palatable. If you want to realize the Tao,...you're not beinging your faith with you. If truth upsets belief, then believers will kill the truth.

According to your post, you own quite alot. Perhaps unweaving all that attachment would be a good direction to pursue. But before that, that which you don't seem to recognize, attempt to write down no more than 6 things you really want. Then refine that list,...see if any could be reduced,...then refine it again. When you feel confident that those (no more than 6) things is what you really want,...walk away from EVERYTHING that doesn't support your getting what you want. That's it,...you can only have those 6 things or less. Burn with a fire of passion,...only focus on those things. If it presents itself that those things must be refined again,...do so quickly,...so you can focus on only what's on the list. Do nothing else. Every distraction,..every diversion,...will lead you away from what you want.

Intellectually open and beautifully written,...a richly engaging prose to read,...like looking upon a flower bud ready to release its full fragrance.

In this perceived reality, there is every right to sow, but none to reap what one has sown,...thus no hope and expectation necessary. My enjoyment of interacting on TTB is one of playing with words,...a fully verbal communication, with non-verbal gestures and clues to alter the communication. Regardless of "my view" there simply is no god,...no belief is necessary,...belief is for those who are ignorant of a single truth. Once a single (absolute) truth is realized, beliefs release and fall aside like the layers of a dried onion. Undivided Light is proof that no god exists. http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/