Vmarco

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

I usually get my Tea Party info from the Tea Party itself,...seldom view huffpo. Politically, I was for Gary Johnson. Tea Party Fascists hate him.

Are there any Esoterics? I once read: "So how can you know when a religious/mystical leader has broken through and knows the hoax? Because there are stages of learning a person goes through. You can recognize the stage a person is in. One who has broken through to the final stage of "enlightenment" speaks with authority and self-confidence. When reading a religious book you can tell by the way the author expresses himself/herself if they've broken through, i.e., they realize the hoax but they're still promoting it. Some say that St. Theresa of Avila, who wrote a number of books, broke through to the full realization. It is said that she totally stopped reading religious literature. Her whole adult life was spent constantly reading and writing about the Lord. Suddenly, she completely stopped it. Did she realized her visions, her trances, everything was coming from her inner self. Her priest confessor, who had always heard her confessions, just could not get over why all of a sudden she stopped all religious reading...for that had been her passion in life. Once a person breaks through the hoax of theism to realize there is no higher authority looking out for you, you miss the relationship you thought you had with God. The thought that reality is all there is can seem cold. It takes away the mystery and love that communication with God provided. Reality seems very cold at first. So few finally break through to realize it's all a hoax. Many, many people live their whole life caught up living in a way they shouldn't be living, acting and doing things which go against themselves and their self interests. It is extremely difficult to make the breakthrough. It is said to have taken St. Theresa fourteen years.

I agree that Truth Suppression is rampant throughout America. I have a handout on Truth Suppression from a 2010 Tea Party workshop. Does that mean that all Tea Party folks are Truth Suppressionists,...not really. What I have observed about Tea Party folks is that they typically put their Faith-based agenda before the US Constitution. The example of the Texas GOP 2012 Platform (which represents no less than half the State of Texas) is a good example of fascism. I did take it upon myself to extend the subject The Fuhrer to fascism,...as the term 'der Fuhrer' is specifically used to identify AH. I wouldn't agree that shinning light upon "conservatives hate LGBT's" is dumb. It is the nature of conservatives to hate. "The inability or unwillingness to hate makes a person worthless. If we do not hate detestable things, the quality of our character is suspect. The Bible commands that we hate". H. A. (Buster) Dobbs, Church of Christ. "I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good . . . our goal is a Christian nation. We have the biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism..." Randall Terry, Director of Operation Rescue Dobbs and Terry are stars in the Tea Party Movement of Texan Dick Armey, etc. How much so-called cherry picking does it take to see that nearly all their fruit is rotten. The 2012 Texas GOP Platform (led by the Tea Party) also stated: "We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority". That is getting to the foundation of today's Christian Fascism,...as the Jew hater Martin Luther said, "Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

You grasped a most important observation NAJA,...knowledge and gnowledge are two distinct things. Knowing arises from the 6 senses; the monkey mind. The Tao can never be known. Even in the West, when 5th Century BCE Greeks spoke of Higher Mind, they used the word Thymos, and pointed to what is called the Heart chakra at the chest,....as for Lower Mind, it was called Psyche, which arose from the grey-goo in the head. 'Gnothi Seauton', as inscribed over the portico of the Temple at Delphi, says and means Gnow Thyself, not Know Thyself. In other words, those who say they know, most likely do not Gnow. Some cultures like the Egyptian and Maya of Mesoamerica, thought so lowly of the brain, or sciential mind, that before burials it was sucked out and discarded, whereas the heart? was treasured. Records of dissections of adults in Greek times shows that the (butterfly shaped) thymus gland to be as large as the heart. Today, in the world culture of knowledge, where gnowledge is no longer used, the thymus gland begins to atrophy after birth. Don't use it,...we lose it. In the West, gnowledge (gnosis) began being eradicated as the Christian meme appeared,...led by the "Sprouter of Lies", the mass-murderer Paul of Tarsus, then Theodocius, and the barbaric reign of Justinian, which barred anyone outside specific neo-Christian beliefs from civil service, and whose forced baptisms upon Arabs encouraged the way for the establishment of Islam by the pediphile prophet Mohammed.

Yes, they still lied,...but more important, anyone agreeing to the oath (so help me god) is instantly being dishonest. As a Buddhist once said, "Start knowing what you really know, and stop believing what you really don’t know. Somebody asks you. "Is there a God?" and you say, "Yes, God is." Remember: Do you really know? If you don’t know, please don’t say that you do. Say, "I don’t know.". . . False knowing is the enemy of true knowledge. All beliefs are false knowledge

To me, that is the most important thing,...to simply recognize that our perceived living situation is relative. Such a mindset allows for the uncovering of bodhicitta,...to honestly observe everything perceived as a dream. IMO, only through impeccable honesty can one realize the Tao,...which is synonymous with the Tathagata. Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." Buddha said, "the Tathagata does not come and go."

Authentic Buddhists and Taoists don't believe in gods. http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm Lao Tzu said, "Do not go about worshipping deities and religious institutions as the source of the subtle truth. To do so is to place intermediaries between yourself and source, and to make youself a beggar who looks outside for a treasure that is hidden inside his own breast. If you want to worship the Tao, first discover it in your own heart."

Yep,...guess I was trolling! "Just because a diamond is in the mud doesn’t mean that it has lost its luster." Saraha

The Fuhrer (der Fuhrer) is a term specifically associated with the Christian, White Supremist, Fascist Adolph Hitler,...who, wanting to have the so-called German Race (there is no such thing as "race" in nature) to be the Chosen People of the Christian God, set out to eradicate all Jews, so that Germans could be the New Chosen People. Examples of Hitler style Fascism can be found all over today's America, expecially associated with Tea Party politics and extreme Conservative agendas. For example,...the Tea Party controlled Texas GOP, in their 2012 Platform stated: "We affirm that the practice of [LGBT's] tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. [LGBT] behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. [LGBT's] must not be presented as an acceptable "alternative" lifestyle, in public policy, nor should "family" be redefined to include [LGBT] "couples." We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin. Additionally, we oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose [LGBT's] out of faith, conviction or belief in traditional values. " That is pure Fascism.

Yes,...but who has the balls to establish a Resource Based Economy,...certainly not the Tea Party.

Well said. You may enjoy this youtube,...which references the contrived system of economics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNgSa7GvA Minute 11:00 - 17:43

Gurdjieff said that he once wore the red robes at the Sarmoun lamasery, indicating more than a mere short stay with the "bees" who gathered and preserved the honey of wisdom. Thus the Fourth Way is a Western lineage of Tilopa’s transmission, one overlaid with Middle Eastern Sufi influences of Gurdjieff’s youth. Many who seek wisdom, like Gurdjieff, understand that like bees, nectar is gathered from many flowers.

Sure,...but what is a thought? Can you ever think in the absolute Now? Would it not be prudent to let go of beliefs about the present, past and future,...and examine what is really going on? The prose of romantic ideas are fun,...and spiritually disempowering. Is there ever a Present, Instant, or Now in time? If not, why pretend otherwise. If there is no Present, Instant, or Now in time,...why say the past and future, which are in time, are also in the Present? Why not be honest? Really honest.

I loved that film. Because you mentioned it, the following, which will include a reference to 'What Dreams May Come', shouldn't be seen as truth, but as my own research on the dimensions. Although the nature (and architecture) of reality is not linear, a linear-type model is useful in a word-orientated density as our existence. The nine levels of consciousness can be summarized as the following: The ninth or highest plane is not a density, but a nondensity, a zero-dimension beyond space–time that is synonymous with still, unconditional light. This is as the light bulb within a projector. The eighth and seventh densities are the first pair, or split, out of the ninth, yet are intimately connected with the ninth, just as the three points of an equilateral triangle are intimately connected with each other. The dakini would describe these two densities as the oceans that hold the highest levels of consciousness—the dimensions of Buddha and Vajradhara. The eighth and seventh densities are octaves in which the laws and structure of space–time do not apply as it does it the lower densties. Within these levels dwell our highest selves. There is a direct connection with pure ecstasy, love, and light, yet these densities also comprise the initial levels of energy. Remember, however: undivided light itself is zero energy, and zero space–time. The sixth density is the first level of fully enlightened consciousness. Although the threshold of truth is within the fifth density, the sixth conscious plane is wholly in truth. Falsity cannot penetrate this plane of consciousness. The full, luminous understanding of compassion can be accessed through this vibrational level. No religious person can rise to this level of consciousness. The fifth density occurs between the higher and lower densities of consciousness and appears to be the most populated of all the dimensions. At the upper level of this density, there are no limits to our desires. John Davies said that whatever we wish in the fifth is instantly manifest. The middle of the fifth density is the gateway between arrita (untruth) and satya (truth), at which the beliefs cloaking the heart-mind have dropped away. A conscious connection with the middle fifth plane gives birth to the beginning of true compassion. Everything above this vibrational level of consciousness is true. The 1998 film What Dreams May Come is loosely based on the middle fifth density. On the low end of the fifth plane is the highest level to which beliefs can ascend. This would be the heaven or hell for those who cling to the Abrahamic religions for their identity. The lower fifth density is not only the uppermost level of beliefs, such as the Christianized concept of Christ Consciousness, but also the highest level for the sciential-minded and believers in atheism. Falsity cannot go above this level. In the film What Dreams May Come, Robin Williams ventures to the lower fifth dimension to retrieve his partner, Annabella Sciorra, who is stuck there within a moral delusion. Researcher Robert Monroe has called the lower fifth density religious terminus. In the fourth density, vibration is experienced intuitively, as in the higher frequencies, rather than through mental thought or the sensory languages in the lower frequencies. This intuitive communication can be either positive or negative. Through the higher levels of this density, we can draw on information from our higher selves through intuitive language. The lower ones are denser versions of the lower fifth and thus block higher intuition. Intuitive language is "heard" through the heart or Hridaya experience not fully available to the religious or the sciential-minded. An important thing to note is that occasionally, those who cling to faith-based constructs do have experiences projected from levels above the religious terminus. Afterwards, however, these occurrences get labeled such things as "being born again," for as soon as the experience is over, the people who have had these experiences begin to define their adventure through belief filters, and thus they close off the connection to their higher self and remain in religious terminus. A few so-called channelers appear to have connected with levels above the lower fifth density and retrieved information from higher consciousness, but then typically filter it through faith-based "Jesus" constructs. The product for their listeners is then an unfortunate blend of true and false, which keeps the faith-based continually chained to that which suppresses, denies, disempowers, and disconnects. A rule of thumb is: Anyone who begins to spew theism as something valuable either hasn’t gone beyond the lower level of the fifth density or is distorting reality. The third density is the level of physical consciousness that has become dominated by the sciential-minded. This is a dimension of limitation, suffering, and illusion—what Gurdjieff called a very unfortunate place to be. The third density is more than the tip of the iceberg, yet in this age of ignorance, the construct of object-ive conscious rules. Although the subconscious portion of self overlaps into the four lower densities and easily communicates through images and emotions that can be downloaded into the conscious mind as insights, such as occurs through night dreaming or meditation, this larger part of self is generally viewed as fantasy. The second density includes the consciousness of animals, plants, and even viruses and bacteria, although their consciousness isn’t as sensory or emotional as that of larger animals. The first density includes minerals and basic elements. All have some level of consciousness. Nothing is below these two densities, just as nothing is above the ninth.

Good one,...be picky. I could say that no matter how irrefutably true something is, for example, that there is no present in time,...someone will likely dispute it. Thus, the question could be,...is there a topic that no one on Earth would dispute? Is a banana yellow? Nope! Absorbing all spectral light except yellow doesn’t make it yellow. Indisputable may be slightly different, however it still can imply something not disputable. I recall the film A Knight's Tale, when at the end, the Black Prince says, my words (which he just made up) are beyond contestation (in other words, try and get your head cut off). This all usually leads back to what is truth. So many are predisposed to say that there is no truth, which to me is such an idiotic statement, because if there was no truth, than the truth would be absolutely nothing, thus an absolute truth. I recall you once bringing up the subject of Korzybski and the limitations of language. What we don't have in English, is a vocabulary consistent with relating with what will never leave you, and from which you can never leave. A language of the Heart, instead of the Head. Maslow attempted it through his Transcendence, but ordinary people could hardly grasp Self-Actualization, let alone realize it. If one wants to discuss law, they learn the language of law,...if astrology, then the language of astrology,...if medicine or botony, then the language of medine or botony. But for some reason, people think they can engage in an intelligible conversation about Heart-Mind without even the basics of the language of Heart-Mind. The language of Heart-Mind is even more specific than law, astrology, medicine and botony combined, mostly because such a language is not only foreign to the accumulate knowledge of mundane experience, but threatens the continued existence of knowledge itself.

You may get more out something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Zero-The-Biography-Dangerous-Idea/dp/0140296476 I read it 12 years ago.

There is supportive evidence for that,...for example, Buddha purportedly said that he discovered something profound and luminous beyond all concepts. He tried to communicate that something with words, but few understood. Yet, when Buddha Maitreya arrives, it is said that tens of thousand will understand. In my opinion, anyone who understands the nature of light, will by consequence, understand the Tao. http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/

That is a most interesting subject. Yes, life is a dream,...but, does one dream it? Or are they being drempt? Suppose you dream of someone,...who are they? Are they dreaming a dream? Inside your dream? Is it really true that you're off to dream a dream within a dream. If the 5 skandhas are not real,...and the perception of dreaming arises from the 5 skandhas, ....what is true?

Yes,...if one hasn't observed the Present, it is just a belief. "Phenomenally, we can know no present, as it must be in the ‘past’ before our senses can complete the process of recording it, leaving only a suppositional past and future; noumenally, there is no question of ‘past’ or ‘future,’ but only a presence that knows neither ‘time’ nor ‘space.’ " Wei Wu Wei

Yes,...zero is indisputable,...although it certainly upsets aristotelian logic. Zero is an excellent path to absolute truth,...not zero as a relative place number,...but the spiritual value of zero,...that which is the sum of all opposites, and unobscures the threshold of Wholeness. In Mesoamerica, zero is symbolized by a white conch shell. The White Conch is one of the eight auspicious symbols of Tibetan Buddhism, and represents the enlightened speech of the Buddhas. The ultimate reality is the tathagata heart, which is like the [natural] white of the conch. In Vajrayana Buddhism the conch is a symbol which fearlessly proclaimed the truth of the dharma Zero contains all there is. What is not contained within Zero? Duality. Many become so frightened about considering Zero, that they attempt to kill anyone who discusses it. "The burden of the Heart Sutra Is not the nature of objects But the seeing of them Which is what they are. Understanding Zero then, is not about a concern regarding what objects are, or are not, but in the "seeing" of objects from Zero's point of view, which is by the way, the point of view of an opened-Heart. In other words, we cannot understand Zero without seeing objects the way Zero would. Just as we cannot understand light outside of lights point of view. "He who thinks of mind in terms of one or many casts away the light and enters delusion." the Royal Song of Saraha

From my point of view, I'm seldom, if ever, off-topic. Thus, what is off-topic? For most is rather subjective (from a 2 year old skill set). To me, all juvie comments, potty humor, and responses devoid of any meaningful contribution to the topic, are off-topic. From my estimate, those account for some 40% of the General Discussion forum.

Yes,...the relative is impermanent, and contains no absolute truth,...however, what of the absolute? For Buddhists interested in such a dialogue, try the Mountain Doctrine. http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Doctrine-Fundamental-Treatise-Other-Emptiness/dp/155939238X

Well then,...I suppose neither Lao Tzu nor Buddha ever uttered a truth.

Yes,...absolute knowledge is an impossibility,....because knowledge arises from the 6 senses, and the senses are always liars. Those who seek wisdom will never uncover the realization of awareness,...because wisdom literary means: knowledge accumulated through philosophic, scientific learning. Thus, there is NO PLACE in prajnaparamita practice for wisdom.