Vmarco

"One had better put on gloves before handling the New Testament. The presence of so much filth makes it highly advisable." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Christians call it faith ... I call it the herd." Friedrieh Wilhelm Nietzsche Vmarco calls it Sheeple.

Whatever a theist regards as true must be false: there you have almost a criterion of truth. Friedrich Nietzsche

So long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is Truth? -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Two great European narcotics, alcohol and Christianity. -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Minute 1:22

If you look at Recep Ivedik's post with a clear view, it really is no different than posts from CowTow, gatito, anamatva, shenlung, etc,...who find nothing really usefull or interesting being said here,...because in fact, their posts are devoid of any meaningful contribution to the elevation/liberation of humankind. I like typing my posts from the point of view that I could die tonight,...in other words,...if I was to die tonight,...what kind of post would I be spending my last minutes with? "Soon we all will die; our hopes and fears will be irrelevant....on the luminous continuity of existence which has no origin and which has never died, we project all the images of life and death, terror and joy, demons and gods. These images become our complete reality, and we submit without thinking to their dance. In all the movements of this dance we project our greatest fears on death, and we make every effort to ignore it." The Great Liberation

"I regard monotheism as the greatest disaster ever to befall the human race. I see no good in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam." - Gore Vidal "I am as firmly convinced that religions do harm as I am that they are untrue." Bertrand Russell "The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear." J Krishnamurti

"When people say 'I have faith', what they really mean is 'I don't want to know the truth'." Nietzsche The Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; is quite simple, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Even simplier is what it points to,...although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is encouraged by their Faithful, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs. "What would be the need for faith if it stood to reason?" Joseph Campbell

Interesting! An oldie but goodie: A Buddhist story tells of a student who wished to make an offering to Siddhartha Gautama and so brought a flowering branch to a gathering. As the pupil approached, Siddhartha said to him, "Throw it away." Quickly, thinking he was supposed to discard the branch, the pupil threw it away. Yet Siddhartha again said, "Throw it away." The student could not comprehend what he was supposed to do. Siddhartha then said, "Throw yourself away." And the novice stood there confounded, pondering how he could throw himself away. If the student had his "I am" before his "i think," there would not have been a reason to "throw it away." But,...people fear their light. As the Buddha Siddhartha reportedly said, "Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts." "Earnestness is the key. Unconditional willingness. All you have to do is pay attention, be honest, and follow through. Truth is discovered when you simply refuse to lie to yourself anymore". Scott Morrison However, instead of anamatva and his kindred believers throwing truth off TTB in order to sustain their beliefs,...what if the realization of falsity prevailed, and the Believers were asked to leave? "Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha

The discussion of the mass murderer Paul if another subject,...one of which I've won international recognition among Religious Studies scholars. As for Meister Eckhart,...if you take the Sermons of Master Eckhart and compare them to the Heart sutra in a non-predisposed way, it will be clear that Eckhart was, in your jargon, mentally obsessed. Nothing in Master Eckhart's sermons points to enlightenment, except for pointing to what is not enlightenment. If you are desireous to support the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of Christians brewed beliefs,...which is the bottom line of "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things",...then that of course is your prerogative. It simply says hat you have no interest in waking up,...of uncovering prajnaparamita,...or as Lao-zu would say in this instance, to cease your coming and going. "the Tao doesn't come and go." Lao-zu. The Heart suta points to how to realize coming and going. Master Eckhart pointed to the delusion of making coming and going a life-long mystical diversion from truth. As Jed McKenna correctly said, "99.9% of the World's so-called wisdom, East and West, for the purposes of awakening, is about as useful as a glass of warm spit with a hair in it."

What is "service" to others? Is service to others appeasing, moderation, and the cuddling of suffering? Is it conditional, hope based compassion? What is compassion? Is it to anesthesize, distract, pander, deny, disconnect, disempower, divert? Where's the compassion in that? Does compassion add more things to step between sentient beings and their experience, or less? Over and over and over I've said that I do not use quotes in the context the author used,...yet you continue to take offense with it. I do not support nor unsupport the authors of the quotes I use,...I use them to separate me from the content of the context of what I'm pointing to in my posts. They are used as a collage, to present a point of view. When you see a collage, do you get all bent out of shape into near hysterics because some collection of cuttings are presenting a different idea than originally intended. Is your life that anal.

The Heart is an upsetting subject for most,...as most believe they are acting from a Heart space, when in reality they are pivoting from mental, form, feeling, etc. Although Avalokitesvara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion said that form, feeling, discrimination, are empty (Heart Sutra, which many agree was composed in Taoist China), we should not believe it, but attempt to disprove it. (The Heart sutra is about how a Compassionate person sees). Real compassion is intolerant of all religion,...because religion is a set of beliefs that step between people and their direct experience. A bodhisattva, through uncovered compassion, forgoes enlightenment, and focuses on the liberation of all sentient beings. That is to say, the liberation of all beings from the delusion of sentience, or 6 senses. Of course, those who cling to their 6 senses for their identity are likely condemn such an uncovering. As Lemuel K. Washburn correctly said, "Most men would kill the truth if truth would kill their religion." No belief is true! In the belief state, it is understandable that people cherish the conditions of their beliefs,...however, conditions cannot enter the Unconditional,...it is impossible. No belief can enter the Heart. No theist can enter the Heart. No Christian, Muslim or Jew can enter the Heart. Beliefs are not who you are,...they are who you think you are. Although Meister Eckhart is considered enlightened by the caterpillars, Meister Eckhart was still a caterpillar,...not a butterfly. Although it has been suggested that Teresa of Avila may have made the breakthrough to full realization,...as she ceased reading and writing religious material,...but Christians don't want to discuss that. Be cautious of anyone promoting inter-faith movements, such as Thich Nhat Hanh's Buddhism. Yes, the Bible teaches, "faith is a substance hoped for"....and their Sheeple believe it. But simply ponder on it, and see how UNSPIRITUAL and dishonest such a statement is. Is there a more dishonest, perniciousness word than hope? hope n. from ME. hopa, an expectation. 1. expectation of something desired; anticipation of some future event. 2. a guess or belief. 3. that which gives hope; a substance or object hoped for; an expected payoff. No matter what level we wish to view it from, hope is false. Hope is an anticipation of the future; thus it must arise from a predisposition, a belief, and attachment to the past. Hope implies lack,...how else could we possibly define it? Hope is for something we think we don't possess. How could hope ever be expressed through an Open-Mind or Open-Heart ? The belief of hope is a barrier that obscures the present. Look at Christian love. Christian love is often considered the highest love, but that too is merely a conditional love. To better understand this type of love, simply consider the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; for example, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is more commitment orientated then fleeting, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

That is somewhat accurate, but not quite. People feel, sense (the 6 senses) etc., that they are not enlightened,...and actually that is true,...the conditions of feeling, thinking, seeing smelling, tasting, hearing, touching can never realize enlightenment, because feeling, thinking, seeing smelling, tasting, hearing, touching have no validity in reality,...only in perceived reality. That is a fundamental of Buddhism and Taoism,...yet many get upset if mentioned. Lao-zu said, "Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Religion is a distortion. Materialism is cruel. Blind spirituality is unreal."

Nice defense. The fragrance of inter-faith advocacy was surely apparent. As for my "mental state",...you nailed the confusion you have with my posts,...I'm not very cerebral-centric. Actually, I quite heart-centered,...not in the New Agey way, which is a mental obsession,...but the Heart. Although it is obvious you have no interest in the Tao,...for the sake of others: Lao Tzu said, "To attain pure Tao you must understand and integrate within yourself the three main energies of the universe: The first is the earth energy. Centered in the belly, itexpresses itself as sexuality. Those who cultivate and master the physical energy attain partial purity; Second is the heaven energy. Centered in the mind, it expresses itself as knowledge and wisdom. Those whose minds merge with the Universal Mind also attain partial purity. Third is the harmonized energy. Centered in the heart, it expresses itself as spiritual insight. Those who develop spiritual insight also attain partial purity. Only when you attain you achieve all three - mastery of physical energy, universal mindedness, and spiritual insight - and express them in a virturous integral life, can you attain pure Tao." There is absolutely no way to the heart through the conditions of beliefs. As in your continual belief that belittling me will drive me off the forum, and set people against me, because Bubbles says facts are stupid things. I'd make for a terrible teacher,...I'm not an appeaser or moderate,...I'm not tolerant of things that steps between people and their liberation,...I loathe dishonesty. I resonate with the fairness, integrity, and caring that goes hand in hand with being impeccable with one's words. Frankly,...there are very few honest discussions on the internet. Most likely, as many have said, there may only be .04% of the population with a propensity towards honesty. To make that more clear,...no theist is an honest person,...which eliminates 87% plus of the worlds population. Frankly, I wonder why there are so many theists on a Taoist forum, that minors in Buddhism. http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm Anyway,...with all the dishonesty discussions on the internet, TTB has the greatest potential to attract honesty,...to the chagrin of folks like yourself. So, for the final time,...I was originally invited to this forum,....and after I left (approx 6 months), several have request I return. They are not anyone's students, and I am not anyone's teacher. I enjoy dialogues with those capable of being honest,...and it is for them, not you, that I respond to the ad hominem by those attached to their beliefs for their identity.

Far too much nonsense to address,...but I'll respond alittle. Dragging up nearly year old posts is quite telling,...OK,...I threaten your belief system,...that is your religion. Your post seems to be rather clear that you believe you are your beliefs,...sorry to hear that. In truth, you are not your beliefs. Nevertheless, my discussions on beliefs obviously upsets you, as if shining light on beliefs is an attack on you. As mentioned to others,...if you can't handle facts, don't read my posts. In America, at least 49% believe facts are stupid things,...an authentic Taoist would not feel that way As for #4,...I've been repeatedly (no less than 50 times) since dropping of TTB, been asked to return to TTB. Don't feel any of those (not 50 individuals, but several individuals repeating the asking) are looking for a guru or teacher, which I've explicitly and implicity said I am not, nor would ever want such a headache. My understanding is that they get nauseous with the same New Agey believers seeking praise from fellow believers, and advocating beliefs as something meaningful. I've been told there is a lack of integrity, honesty, spiritual vigor, etc., that a serious Taoist forum necessates. Certainly that is true with many posters,...frankly don't have a clue why they would be here. Again,...the quotes I use are never out of context with my response,...although usually out of context with the author of the quote. Thus, like 100% of your post above, your opinion, in the context of my posts, is seriously flawed. As for the term religion,...as a Religious Studies academic in the 80's, of whom members of the Westar Institute said that not 20 people on the planet understood Early Christianity as well, and a recognized Religious Studies author,...I'm quite familiar with meaning of religion. I can also assure you with 100% certainty, that no religious person will ever, nor can ever, realize enlightenment or the Tao. As Lao Tzu said, "...religions are desperate, clever, human inventions that rely on hypnotic manipulation of undeveloped minds" My question is,...why are you on a Taoist forum proselytizing sets of religious belief,...and getting upset at someone attempting to have a discussion on the Tao?

For me,...dance, hand drumming, etc., have been valuable to take me out of the trance,...the trance of the 5 skandhas,...enable me to get beyond my human-ness (6 senses) and the delusion they crave.

Some, like yourself, have a higher comprehension than others. I apologize for your inconvenience.

I'm sure you can find much sympathy among the truth suppressors that will join in with your reeling. Nevertheless, the falsity of the person claiming to know the needs of enlightened men and understanding of enlightened compassion was quite justified in the simple statement,...you are not enlightened. Let's suppose that the Heart Sutra, Tilopa's Mahamudra, the Shurangama sutra, Hua Hu Ching, etc., were presented by enlightened people. Based on those texts, your "reeling" is in direct opposition to the message in those texts. Thus,...either you are a promoter of lies, beliefs, spiritual disorder, etc., or Sakymuni, Avalokitesvara, Tilopa, and Lao-zu are. As Cat points out,..."No insults" and 'no belittling' and 'no demeaning' and certainly 'no attacking'. No name calling. No abusive language. However, those like yourself (caterpillars) who promote falsity and disinformation often feel it is insultive to call a spade a spade. I take Cat's statement to mean ad hominem,...that is, attack a person, because they are too afraid or ignorant to address the message. Anyone reading any of my 1300 posts, will not find a single act of ad hominem,...they are all in direct response to a poster. There are no Truth Suppression tactics. No one is belittled for being unawake,...but encouraged to disrobe from their beliefs. Seneca said, "Do not regard as valuable anything that can be taken away." All beliefs are impermanent. ..."when you can disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments (beliefs) and place them under your feet like little child and tread on them, then you will no longer be afraid". 1st Century Gnostic text.

Anyone Who Gives You a Belief System is Your Enemy. Of course, believers will attack that as a belief in itself,...however, any prudent person can see it is not. If ordinary people understood what the bodhisattva vow meant,...they would kill bodhisattvas. Seneca said, "Do not regard as valuable anything that can be taken away." All beliefs are impermanent. "The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear." J Krishnamurti "Most men (even on TTB) would kill the truth if truth would kill their religion (system of belief)." Lemuel K. Washburn

Only to ego, is shining light upon a pile of shit, derogatory. "Compassion is not having any hesitation to reflect your light on things. As light has no hesitation, no inhibition about reflecting on things, it does not discriminate whether to reflect on a pile of shit or on a pile of rock or on a pile of diamonds. It reflects on everything it faces." Chögyam Trungpa "The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is geared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible." The Way of the Bodhisattva If you want to discuss compassion, fine,...although such a discussion is ridiculously stupid without an understanding of Emptiness. "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." Robert Thurman commentary on the Dalai Lama's The Four Noble Truth's DVD,...nice video, check it out

If my words means nothing, why do you seek out my posts and then ridicule me (not the context of the posts)? I understand how your New Agey, non-Buddhist "form" of Buddhism gets upset with Tathagata orientated posts like mine,...and how it threatens your position as the Buddhist Expert on TTB,...but these loveless confrontations precipitated by emotional charges arising from your feelings of being threatened are not the answer. As I've mentioned many times,...I don't engage in every thread,...so why don't you focus your New Agey Buddhism where I'm not,...and I'll discuss the nature of Tathagata where you're not. That way you can avert getting upset, and remain an expert of your own delusion. In other words,...as stated in your post,...that you will never have to pass this way again. Or,...as offered to Aaron,...pick up a copy of 'the Heart Attack Sutra', and we can all have a serious discussion about prajnaparamita.

Most people are inconsiderate,...not purposefully,...they're just self-centered,...you can observe it right here at TTB. Most people are so caught up in a dream, and there is little, if any awareness of others. "All the joy the world contains Has come through wishing happiness for others. All the misery the world contains Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself." Shantideva It is not accurate that your neighbor bangs on the walls all day. Focus on when they do not,...and then, preferrably with a pressure-bass, blast noise towards their lair,..especially when they are watching their favorite mindless TV show, or having sex with themselves,...and train them to be aware of apartment living. Most important,...do it lovingly,...inconsiderate people are as sleep-walkers,...so aborbed in their own dream it's comical. You'll never wake them up,...only they can do that,...but you can play with them in a loving way,...no need to get upset with those who are asleep,...they're asleep.

This post says volumns about you CT,...interesting how easily your particular acquired serenity gets upset. But, real compassion, like authentic bodhisattvas, is an assassin of the illusion of acquired serenity and change. As Buddha told Ananda, "You still listen to the Dharma with the conditioned mind, and so the Dharma becomes conditioned as well, and you do not obtain the Dharma-nature." Most submit to the conditions of perceived life, and attach themselves to subsiding and change for their identity,..subsiding and change is comforting. In contrast, Buddha was intolerant of subsiding and change,...no one can realize liberation through subsiding and change. It is impossible to be simultaneously engage in subsiding and change, and Present. Buddha was present,....he neither came or gone. He stood as if it were, upon the Tao,....as Lao-zu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." As long as CT comes and goes,...he shall remain a caterpillar,...believing he understands what it like to be a butterfly.

There is a huge flaw in such a statement. The love and goodness in the world is dependent on the hate and badness. The hope in the world is dependent on fear. Lao Tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things (dualistic love, goodness, hope, etc) Most people look at love from an Abrahamic religious view,....for example, Christian love is often considered the highest love, but that too is merely a conditional love. To better understand this type of love, simply consider the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; for example, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is more commitment orientated then fleeting, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs. Many of the Abrahamic faiths believe the God they invoke is love. However, in the whole of their Holy Book, the Bible, it only suggests the idea that their God is love at the very end, in the late 2nd Century apology 1John. In fact, when viewing the full length and breadth of the Bible, their Patriarch is clearly a murderous, pro-slavery, vacillant, petty, racist, conditional God. And amazingly, a God who is so insecure, that it demands to be worshiped, obeyed and prayed to. Passionate or emotional love, is another type of conditional love. This is the love of solicitudal desire and enthralled obsession. Such love is usually, but not necessarily, accompanied by biological, chemical or instinctual love, which manifests a yearning for the welfare, possession and companionship of another. Ordinarily, emotional love is based on something received through physiological or psychological arousal, and commonly includes, as in Christian love, an attached expectation. The Bodhisattva wish, in the above context, is not synonymous with hope or desire. Hope and desire belong to an anticipation and expectation of the future. Hope and desire ensues from the thought of lack; that things should be other than they are. A wish on the other hand, is an intention, unencumbered by predisposition; to allow Love to flow, and arrive at its own harmonium. Individuality is incessantly convinced of its separateness; it bears, believes, hopes, and endures within a perceived encapsulated form, manifesting conditions that perpetually repeat themselves. A wish arises from the Heart of ones Essence. There is no absence of Love, anywhere; only an enshrouding by brewed beliefs and predispositions that have been built against love. Thus, to realize the love that we are, complete and without lack, we simply bring love to another through a clear presence. We cannot do that through conditions, because all conditions are in the past. Unconditional love is only in present.