Vmarco

Your confusion errors from the side of Samsara. Yes, Samsara and Nirvana are two sides of the same coin of Oneness,...yet all three, Samsara, Nirvana, and Oneness are impermanent. 　 Because most of our society is asleep, it is common that everything is viewed upside down and inside out. For example, we display the T’ai chi T’u symbol arbitrarily. The T’ai chi T’u, or yin-yang, is a well-known symbol that shows dualities’ two primal forces that is simultaneously opposing and complimentary. Although this symbol represents the rhythm of duality within the universe and thus can be viewed in motion, there is a correct, meaningful way to display it statically. The yin, or dark, feminine energy should be located on the left, with its bright eye upward at the top, whereas yang, the bright, masculine energy, should be on the right, downward with its dark eye at the bottom of the pattern. Viewing or displaying the T’ai chi T’u any other way obscures the correct nature of duality. Duality’s reality is not a personal reality. 　 Simply described, the T’ai chi T’u represents the centripetal/centrafugal motion of duality seeking Source,...which it can never, and will never find, because Yin/Yang is a condition not of Source. 　 Seneca said, "Do not regard as valuable anything that can be taken away." The feminine is not something that can be separated from duality, nor is it something from which duality can ever be separated. If yin and yang were divided from their cyclical pulse, before the feminine yin could expand beyond duality’s harmonium, and the masculine yang contracted towards a point denser than a so-called black hole, duality would dissolve. Separating yin and yang, if that were possible, would end duality. Such would effect a theoretical straight line in nature and subsequently terminate duality in a way that would cancel Source-out. On the contrary,...Source is only uncovered by canceling duality-out. We can transcend duality and ego, but not undo its circular motion and call it duality. Altering the laws of duality and Nature is the science fiction of ego. Wholeness is beyond the sum of opposites. To uncover the Tao, it is necessary to relate with what will never leave you, and from which you can never leave. Any so-called application of Nirvana as something other than impermantent is delusion. Remember this,...You do not experience a universe that surrounds you, but a universe that surrounded you. All duality is in the past. V

Do they? How would you know? It is understood that you're not much into Prajnaparamita,... which, until it is proven wrong, a good line of inquiry could be "form, feeling, discrimination, and consciousness are empty of any reality." Interesting, that implication from the Heart Sutra is said to have come from China, and is fully compatable with Lao-zu's Hua Hu Ching.

Last night in my dream, I smacked 6 different people, and they all felt being smacked. Dreams must be real. The truth is,....the 5 skandhas are not real,...although they believe they are. Feeling a smack is a consequence of the desire for things to be other than they are,...everything that involves the 6 senses is other than things are. Even science has a partial understanding of that,....René Descartes stated, "All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once." In other words,...the smack is a lie.

Exactly,...no one, no phenomena, can travel the so-called "speed of light"....yet, at the core of who we think we are, is Undivided Light, the Tao. How to realize that, is by letting go of all that isn't Undivided Light. Nothing of duality (Yin.Yang), nothing of Oneness, is left when Undivided Light is uncovered.

Yes,...Russell's New Concept of the Universe, although filtered through a theistic belief system, can be quite helpful in breaking down the delusions of duality. The terms Undivided Light, the Tao, and Tathagata, are all synonyms pointing to the samething, which is beyond all things.

Regardless of how fast you believe the speed of thought to be,...it is always in the past.

One cannot realize the so-called speed of light and hold a mirror. Duality is a reality in the past. There is no "now" within the illusory electrodynamic dance of creation. There is no now, nor any instant, in space or time. There are no mirrors in the present, because neither emptiness nor form can exist in the present. All energy is in the past, as expressed by E=mc². At the so-called speed of light, the conditions of energy, mass, time, and space cease to exist. Einstein theorized that as we approach the so-called speed of light, time slows to zero, and space shrinks to nothing. As we cross the threshold, our physical mass no longer exists. When the conceptual speed of light is reached, space, time, matter, and energy cease. The nature of duality’s reality is divided, projected light that moves 186,281 miles per second slower than the stillness of undivided light (Tao). No matter what speed we perceive ourselves to be moving, the stillness of light appears to move by us 186,282 miles per second faster. From light’s point of view, space, time, and energy are in the past, and the condition of that past can never enter the unconditionality of undivided light’s present. As you approach the so-called speed of light, time slows to zero, space no longer exists, and mass cancels itself out. You do not enter a new dimension, but a dimensionlessness within the still bliss of undivided light (Tao). Undivided light (Tao) travels no distance in no time, and thus it has no need for speed. Lao Tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things." Neither the One, nor the Many (Yin/Yang), are the Tao.

The "infinite" is a mathematical concept. Most people fail to recognize that the foundation of a mathematical statement is only true in relation to the assumptions of "set theory," the assumption that any collection of objects actually exists. All objects, without exception, are indeed mathematical. The reason for that lies in the multiplying/dividing nature of the optically organized universe. However, the modern cosmological understanding of the universe suggests that no objects exist, indicating that mathematics pivots on a misguided belief in materialism. The sciences usually expound on relative reality through the assumption that object-ive reality actually exists. However, objectivism is based on objects, and those objects are no more real than last night’s dream. 　 Infinity is another voguish belief topic among the object-ive minded. Theories of infinite space, time, and quantity are just more object-ive math. Definitions of infinity are related or relative to the concept of immeasurability in space, time, or quantity. However, if there is no space, time, or quantity, as implied by quantum cosmology, then there is no infinity. The Tao is not within creation, any more that One and Many are within zero. For example, No-Boundary Theory postulated by Quantum Cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle, which says that since time loses characteristics that separate it from space, the concept of a beginning in time becomes meaningless. There is no BigBang, no singularity, no creation, no Creator, because there is no time. The terms creation/creator implies a before and after, or time. The Tao does not "come and go" within your delusion of time. Lao-zu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." Lao-zu said, "there is nothing more futile and frustrating than relying on the mind. To arrive at the unshakable, you must befriend the Tao. To do this, quiet your thinking." Lao-zu said "the Tao doesn't come and go." Please cease describing enlightenment as if you understand what it is,...nothing in your posts suggests even a close resembleness to enlightenment. "As long as your shallow worldly ambitions exist (ie, hopes, beliefs, attachments to traditions) the door will not open." Lao-zu The Short Path and Long Path are no where near the same paths: http://wisdomsgoldenrod.org/notebooks/23/5

The Mayan symbol for zero is a white conch.

Spirit,...the in-breath/out-breath of duality, does not become poison, but manifests circumstances for poison to be seen. Spirit's sole purpose is to show the way back to Source. Spirit is not part of Source, Spirit arose as a consequence of the illusion of separation from Source. No product of the illusion of the separation from Source (such as the 5 Aggregates) can enter Source.

The real Tao neither Comes or Goes,...it is beyond the Yin/Yang which effects their motion from the Tao, yet isn't the Tao. The Tao is not One,...the One is not without a Many, like there is no Center without a boundary, no Here without a There. The One and the Many cannot realize the Tao,...because they are not the Tao. One cannot become enlightened,...nor can the Many become enlightened. Enlightenment is, when the delusion of One and Many are dissolved,...it does not become. The Long Path can never gnow the Short Path. The Short Path is fully gnown only when the Long Path is dissolved,...just like Heart-Mind is only gnown when cerebral-centricness is understood as false. The Short Path is really not a Path,...it is simply being honest regarding the way things are. Perceptions from the 6 senses are not the way things are. An enlightened person once implied, that suffering is a consequence of the desire for things to be other than they are,...and the way things are is not the way they appear to the 6 senses.

LOL A Buddhist correctly said: "Start knowing what you really know, and stop believing what you really don’t know. Somebody asks you. "Is there a God?" and you say, "Yes, God is." Remember: Do you really know? If you don’t know, please don’t say that you do. Say, "I don’t know.". . . False knowing is the enemy of true knowledge. All beliefs are false knowledge."

No. Look at it from a relative perspective. No matter how fast you are traveling, light continues by you at 186K mps. The only way to "catch" light, is to go 186K mps,...in which case, you become perfectly Still. From Light's point of view, it travels no distance, in no time, and thus has no need for speed. In the absolute Now, there is no change, no time, no energy, no ignorance, no infinity, etc. Of course, New Agers imagine all sorts of fascinating things,...yet not single thing they imagine can exist in the Present,...in the Tao.

Your confusion, accumulated by way of ignorant Lineage Holders, regarding the term Tathagata, is understandable. A key, perhaps the key, to realizing the term Tathagata lies through sources unused by Theravadians, such as the Prajnaparamita's. Yes,...the term Tathagata can be conceptually construed to imply "The Thus Gone One", like George Bush was the Decider,...however, the term Tathagata literally means "One who neither Comes nor Goes." It is suffice to say, that you continue to cling to a Long Path,...and thus are incapable of Short Path (Prajnaparamita) dialogue. As was previously mentioned,...prajna implies to see things as they are,...prajnaparamita is the Perfection of Prajna,...that is to say, the highest level of prajna when all wisdom is transcended. Wisdom is not Prajna. Prajna is the Consciousness beyond the Five Aggregates,...whereas wisdom is what the Five Aggregates feel is best about themselves. Wisdom is accumulated by ego. It literally means knowledge accumulated through philosophic or scientific learning. In other words, wisdom points to the highest and most lofty ideas of ego consciousness, whose sole purpose is to sustain itself. Wisdom is to make the best use of knowledge,...yet to realize enlightenment means to let go of all knowledge. Knowledge is acquired through thinking/the Head-mind,...the truth arises from gnowledge/the Heart-Mind. Unlike yourself, prajna is not occupied with cerebral games of interpretations,...prajna is not a doctrine, dogma, wisdom, or belief. I'll make you a bet,...if you can prove you can have a thought in the present, I'll come to your hot tube in Mizen Head, and offer myself to you as your slave. Of course, such a bet is ridiculous, for it is as impossible to think in the present, as it is to realize compassion without understanding Emptiness. Nevertheless, Long Pathers love to imagine.

Religion = a set of beliefs. "Anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy."

Treating everything you perceive as a dream is an absolute bodhicitta lojong that helps uncover the barriers built against revealing ignorance. Keep in mind,...the 6 senses (seeing, hearing, taste, smell, touch or thought) cannot observe the real Present,...but can only witness the past. Everything seen, heard, tasted, touched, smelled, or thought, is in the past,...thus of the dream which those senses perceive. Unfortunately, most Buddhist religious folks reject the above,...not because it isn't found in the sutras, especially the Prajnaparimita one's,...but apparently because the Lineage Holders since the 13th Century have adopted Long Path values,..that is, belief and faith. Sakyamuni claimed to be in the Present through the term "Tathagata"...that which neither comes or goes. The term Tathagata is synonymous with Tao. As Lao-zu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." What doesn't Come or Go is synonymous with Light,...not the light of the electrodynamic spectrum,....but from the fulcrum upon which the electrodynamic spectrum effects its motion,...that is, the Still Light realized at 186k mps. Remember,...from the point of view Light at 186K mps,...it travels no distance, in no time, and has no need of speed. From a physics point of view, although E= mc² is readily agreed upon; nearly no one recognizes light's point of view that mc² < c. All energy is less than the Stillness of Undivided Light. 　 The Buddhists have a story about Shakyamuni Buddha and Angulimala, the wearer of a garland of fingers. Angulimala was a notorious bandit who cut off a finger from each of his victims and wore them all around his neck. Although there are several variations of the story, the punch line is nearly the same. One day, Buddha, the Light of Asia, was walking calmly along a road in the Kingdom of Kosala, where Angulimala was seeking his next victim. Seeing Buddha, Angulimala ran up to bash him from behind, yet he could not get close enough, and the faster he went, the Awakened One seemed to go that much faster. Infuriated and bewildered at not being able to catch him, Angulimala shouted for Buddha to stop. The Light of Asia replied,"But I’m standing still. If you desire to catch me, you too must be still." This is where oral traditions, especially Theravada ones, go off into different invented morals. The true pearl in the tale is that no matter how fast you move to catch light, light will always be 299,792 kilometers per second faster. Undivided light can only be caught through stillness. Did the Light of Asia understand Light? Certainly! And if physics was more commonplace in those days, he most likely would have use such a topic.

Can Considering be a path to FSC (Full Spectrum Consciousness)? Gurdjieff said, "...consider externally always, internally never." This is obviously concerning Relative Considering; although when fully understood, is likely to uncover Absolute Considering. “Truth lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it.” Goethe To consider externally means to consider from the point of view of that which is perceived to be external. Whereas internal considering is mostly about ego. Gurdjieff had a term he called the Chief Feature; a persons largest barrier obscuring their spiritualized/actualized self. He said the Chief Feature is usually what one likes best about oneself. He also purportedly said that the Chief Feature for most people is Internal Considering. External Considering would seek to understand things before judging it. Gurdjieff said, "External considering requires a knowledge of men, an understanding of their tastes, habits, and prejudices. At the same time external considering requires a great power over oneself, a great control over oneself. " Few people fully Consider Externally or empathize with others in a unconditional, non-humanist way,...that is, not filtered through the 6 senses. Absolute Considering necessitates an understanding of what Buddhism calls Dependent Origination,...that everything is dependent on everything else. Consider what Peace on Earth would look like. Would it be a society of bearing, believing, hoping and enduring,...as in the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; for example, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7? Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is quite acceptable to the faith-based groupthink, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs. Would a World at Peace have signs that read "Beware of Dogs," the ownership of vicious breeds for protection, or people obsessed with assault guns? In the US alone, nearly 5 million people report being attacked by dogs every year, and 1,000 people go to emergency rooms every day as a result of a dog attack. In North America, thousands are shot every year with assault weapons, precipitaing more police, fear, subconscious aggression towards others, and a non-peaceful culture. Would an Externally Considerate person own a vicious breed? The State of Maryland recently declared pit bulls and pit bull cross-breeds as "inherently dangerous." Interestingly, some data suggests that the State of Hawaii has the largest pit bull and vicious breed population per capita. Paradise takes "Kill Haole Day" quite seriously, as those familiar with Hawaiian News know that there is actually very little true aloha in the islands. In the 8th Century, Shantideva said, "All the joy the world contains, Has come through wishing happiness for others. All the misery the world contains, Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself." Obviously, Shantideva was aware of External Considering. What would Lao-tzu say about "External Considering always, Internal Considering never?" Lao-tzu said, "A superior person cares for the well-being of all things...looking at herself or another, she sees the samething....Caring for them, she knows that she cares for herself. Giving to them, she knows she gives to herself. At peace with them, she is always at peace with herself." Did Lao-tzu teach external Considering? Lao-tzu purportedly said, "To embrace all things means also to that one rids oneself of any concept of separation....division is contrary to the nature of the Tao....keep your mind free of divisions and distinctions." Is that the same as "rid oneself of Internal Considering"? Lao-tzu said, "Who can enjoy enlightenment and remain indifferent to suffering in the world? This is not keeping with the Way?" Would an authentic Taoist own a vicious breed canine,...a room of assault weapons,...adding to the suffering, fear, aggression, terrorism in the World?

Amazing,...someone who read Jed McKenna. Look forward to your opinions in the threads. As for compassion. Nearly everyone has a notion of what the term compassion implies from a relative view. However, for a Short Path practioner it points to something very different. Kenchen Thrangu Rinpoche: said, "...everbody thinks that compassion is important, and everyone has compassion. True enough, but the Buddha gave uncommon quintessential instructions when he taught the methods for cultivating compassion, and the differences are extraordinarily important." HH Dalai Lama said, "If I have any understanding of compassion..., it all comes from studying the Bodhicharyavatara" The Bodhicharyavatara says, "The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is geared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible." Was the Dalai Lama really expressing such a thing,...that without the realization of emptiness, the true practice of compassion is impossible? In his commentary on the Dalai Lama's The Four Noble Truth's, Robert Thurman said, "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible." Well, such a definition of compassion surely does not match the Western view, nor that of the Abrahamic religions. Chögyam Trungpa said, "Compassion is not so much feeling sorry for somebody, feeling that you are in a better place and somebody is in a worse place. Compassion is not having any hesitation to reflect your light on things. As light has no hesitation, no inhibition about reflecting on things, it does not discriminate whether to reflect on a pile of shit or on a pile of rock or on a pile of diamonds. It reflects on everything it faces." Whoa! That seems to suggest compassion can be seen as intolerant for those who cling to sentient beingness for their identity. Shouldn't compassion be a warrior for all faith-based agendas, both hesitating and inhibiting light from shining on everything? The Heart Sutra implies only through the understanding that Form is Empty, and Empty is Form; can one act as a Bodhisattva. For her, compassion is a natural consequence of direct realization, not something formulated through human conditions. Bodhisattva's, and those who aspire to be a Bodhisattva, take a vow to dedicate themselves to the liberation of all sentient beings. Thus, would a Bodhisattva be tolerant of what steps between sentient beings and their direct experience? Sharon Salzberg said, "Sometimes we think that to develop an open heart, to be truly loving and compassionate, means that we need to be passive, to allow others to abuse us, to smile and let anyone do what they want with us. Yet this is not what is meant by compassion. Quite the contrary. Compassion is not at all weak. It is the strength that arises out of seeing the true nature of suffering in the world. Compassion allows us to bear witness to that suffering, whether it is in ourselves or others, without fear; it allows us to name injustice without hesitation, and to act strongly, with all the skill at our disposal. To develop this mind state of compassion...is to learn to live, as the Buddha put it, with sympathy for all living beings, without exception." Sympathy arising from what? Is the Buddha's compassion desirous for sentient beings to make their suffering more palatable by not allowing light to shine upon the causes of suffering? Sogyal Rinpoche tells us that the practice of Tonglen depends upon our ability to awaken within ourselves the reality of compassion. Just as we cannot perform the Unity Breath until we can feel Love, we cannot practice Tonglen until we truly can feel compassion. (Tonglen can be described as breathing-in someones suffering, and breathing-out a non-suffering vibration. However, only real compassion can gnow what out-breath is a non-suffering vibration). Only from a relative point of view would compassion be synonymous with pity. Compassion, Sogyal Rinpoche warns, is much more difficult to achieve than we might think. However, to realize Full Spectrum Consciousness in a single lifetime, we must do all we can to uncover absolute compassion. Fortunately, various instructions have been left to uncover the nature of compassion beyond the 6 senses. The Heart Sutra for example, concludes with the unsurpassed mantra, which all Buddhas of the three times have realized: Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! This definition of Tathagata is best translated as "to go, to come, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming, where enlightenment is welcomed" Or as Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." Many mistranslate the Unsurpassed Mantra. "Gate Gate" are not two words saying or meaning the same thing. When used together, "gate gate" does not convey the same meaning as "gate" alone,...except to the sciential minded. Look at the familiar sanskrit neti,...it means 'not this',....so what does neti neti mean? Does it mean "not this, not this?' No,...neti neti means 'Not This, Not That.' Gate means to Go,...but "gate gate" means "to go, to come."

Those who know, do not Gnow. Truth is not known,...because knowledge arises from illusion. Illusion cannot recognize truth. To recognize truth, all that is false must be realized to be false. All belief, all faith, all hope, etc are false. Belief, faith, hope, etc are the children of liars.

Imagine,...World Peace. Can you imagine such a world full of vicious dog breeds owned by fearful people needing protection? Your ad hominem stressing an presumed "phobia" simply shows an inability to address the argument,...that vicious breeds in a peaceful world is an oxymoron. Much of peoples problem with discussion vicious breeds lies in the ignorance of vicious breed owners that there lovable pit bull, etc., would ever harm anyone,...or could ever terrorize the person walking down the street. Until you realize the relevance between vicious dog breeds and an impeccable practioner of Taoism, the likelihood of waking up is IMPOSSIBLE. Consider this,..."The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is geared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible." Shantideva In other words, Lao Tzu said, "Who can enjoy enlightenment and remain indifferent to suffering in the world? This is not keeping with the Way?"

The way to uncovering truth is by way of realizing the false. Those on the Short Path do not seek truth,...but the false. A New Age purveyor correctly said, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself" As for physics,...it can be helpful,...but not for the ignorant, like scientists, who believe objects are real. All Long Pathers get very upset with anyone suggesting that the dream of life is not real,...how could everything they believe to be meaningful, actually be meaningless? However, those seriously interested in the Tao, quickly realize that yin/yang does not exist in the Tao. Lao Tzu said, "The Tao gives rise to all form, yet is has no form of its own."

Hi Aaron,...seems you still have difficulty reading. #235 does gives the source of the quote. Of course you disagree that Lao-zu said it,...as if you personally met Lao-zu. Personally, as a Short Pather, I found the Hua Hu Ching quite useful,...for Long Pather's as yourself, I can see why you must find a way to reject the content. For those on the Short Path, beliefs are rejected for there uselessness.

Only a person unfamiliar with a single truth would reply like that. ALL beliefs are Untrue. If I was to spew a belief, without explicitly saying it was a belief, and thus only an opinion, it would be better that an anvil be tied around my neck and thown into an abyss, than to interact on these threads. All object-ive truths are relative, and thus untrue. If I was to spew a relative or object-ive truth, then I would clarify it was merely an object-ive truth,...which is not a truth at all, but an opinion based on object-ivity. All empirical evidence is untrue. When I use the term truth,...it should be taken as absolute truth,...not an object-ive, personal, empirical opinion. "What is truth?" Pontius Pilate purportedly asked circa 28 CE in Palestine, according to John 18:38. For most, truth and reality have little value in everyday life. The majority merely desire dependable descriptions of an objective world that they consider intelligible. The wisdom and reality that arise from certainty would undermine the survival of their object-based beliefs and conceptual imagery. Few seem to realize that those considered priests of the scientific method have neither uncovered nor explained truth. That is not their job. Scientists have little interest in truth or reality, for their paychecks are derived from the pursuit of facts about objects. Science builds its theorems or working hypotheses upon previous beliefs, and therefore it often labels any discussion of absolute certainty as absurd. For example, to say that there is no "present in time" is antithetical to science’s established beliefs. Truth and reality confuse the priests of the scientific method. Their paradigm, or fixed set of beliefs, is founded on concepts of a materially existing world; that is, sciential theorems, not the sapiential truth or the reality beyond objects. Scientists, like most others who are uninterested in truth, are as characters within a dream who think that the dream is real. As truth and reality are taboo in the scientific groupthink, they cling to a faith in objects, to make the dream—and their attachment to separateness—more palatable. As the Nobel Prize-winning physicist Charles Townes said, "Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith."

A true Master is easily recognizable,...they are the non-appeasing, intolerant one's who challenge everything that steps between sentient beings and their liberation. As Chögyam Trungpa said, "Compassion is not so much feeling sorry for somebody, feeling that you are in a better place and somebody is in a worse place. Compassion is not having any hesitation to reflect your light on things. That reflection is an automatic and natural process, an organic process. As light has no hesitation, no inhibition about reflecting on things, it does not discriminate whether to reflect on a pile of shit or on a pile of rock or on a pile of diamonds. It reflects on everything it faces."

What you call OP, I call Top Post,...thus my confusion. Doesn't matter if McKenna believes he is enlightened or not,...personally, my view is that he's simply Truth Realized,...a necessary stepping stone to enlightenment. Unfortunately for him,...he appears to have stop going Further,...thus rejecting his own advice. However,...his first two books (esp the audio versions) are well worth the listen. Not much adequate stuff available to the serious seeker. In 2012 only one book thus far stands out as worthwhile for those on the Short Path,...Brunnholzl "Heart Attack Sutra."