Vmarco

Yes, those who do not understand a single truth (truth being an unchanging, absolute truth) argue that there is no truth,...that it's all relative. Buddhists in particular, discuss the difference between the relative and absolute. For example, Shantideva said: "Relative and absolute, These the two truths are declared to be. The absolute is not within the reach of intellect, For the intellect is grounded in the relative." That leads to this,...that the relative arises from the 6 senses, whereas the absolute is uncovered from beyond the 6 senses. Thus, the honest student inquires into the validity of experience beyond the 6 senses. For those genuinely devoted to the inquiry, there is a natural resonance towards what is false, rather than what is true. A Sentient (6 sense dominant)Being believes themself to be encapsulated in a sensory, changing environment,...the 6 senses can only know motion. There is no absolute truth in motion. To a Sentient Being, motion is life. To a Tathagata, the belief in motion is a barrier that Sentient Beings have built against experiencing truth,...thus Buddhism teaches meditation to help cultivate a better attitude about reality. But keep in mind,...Sakyamuni DID NOT uncover enlightenment through meditation,...his meditation was merely a preparation that enabled him to experience a truth,...after Sujata gave the almost dead ascetic some rice-milk. The truth he realized was this,...that suffering is a consequence of the desire for things to be other than they are. From that absolute truth, the whole of Independant Origination was understood,...and the first Turning of the Wheel of Dharma occurred. The 3rd and 4th Turnings embody the Vajrayana that "Vajrahidaya used to piss off some of the Taoists." The bottom line,...absolute truth is only understood through the letting go of the notion that the 6 senses can access truth. V

That response could be see from several different ways,....I'll respond as if you suggested that without beliefs one could not see themselves. Without beliefs, there is no longer a belief-driven subject that attempts to sustain its imagined self. A self-actualized person (think Maslows Heirarchy) suggests one does not pivot upon beliefs for their identity. Perhaps your have a limited view of what a belief actually is,...and thus you feel threatened by the notion of not having any. http://www.trufax.org/general/beliefsystems.html

Golden Rule = One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself,...Love your neighbor as yourself. Would certainly not want to be treated as most treat themselves,...think De Sade, Tomas de Torquemada, Bernard Gui, Tom DeLay, Elizabeth Bathory, etc. Thelema = "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" Tricky! The Wiccan Rede = An it harm none do what ye will. Now this one has some potential,...especially if one honestly considers what would harm none. Beliefs ALWAYS bring harm,...even when it is believed that beliefs will bring better laws to live together, like religious memes, they actually bring insideous harm. Although those who consider it "a measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" can not see the insideous harm religion does. What is false is false, no matter how palatable it feels to the senses. In an honest society, religion could not exist. V

To understand "neither whence nor whither" one must "Cultivate a form of thinking independent of sensory experience?

"we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself" Eckhart Tolle However, what this thread shows is a disturbing lack of empathy for those who are, and have been terrorized by vicious breeds,...which are HUGELY popular in Hawaii. No considerate, caring, respectful person could possibly own a Vicious Breed animal. The fact that so many do is quite telling of the state of humanity. Be very careful visiting the Big Island. Pit Bulls, the number one dog on the Big Island are ,..."dangerous animals with powerful instincts for dominance and unyielding aggressiveness."

That is a fallacy! There is no evidence to susport such Vicious Breed/Pit Bull apologists contention that if one is not afraid the dog won't attack (inflicting permanent and disfiguring injury),...nor is there evidence that the disproportionate Pit Bull attacks among all breeds is do to bad owners The Lynn, Massachusetts pit bull ordinance got it right,..."pit bulls as "dangerous animals" with "powerful instincts for dominance" and "unyielding aggressiveness." But in Hawaii, Pit Bull ownership, already the highest per capita in the US, is on the rise. I watched a fearless teen (about 17) walking down a street when a little, 15 lb yappy dog ran out and started going for his ankles,...as he motioned to kicked it away, two rottweilers came to yappy dogs rescue, viciously attacking the teen, knocking him down, while he fought all the way. I ran up and kicked one of the rottweiler (I have numerous years practicing Hapkido). The owner, a white trash woman, called her dogs and yelled at the teen and myself, a good twenty feet beyond her property. The teen had two deep gashes. I gave him my phone number and told him to go to a doctor immediately to counter any infection. As far as I know, like millions of others, he did not report it. No Bodhisattva,...no genuine spiritual person,...would own a vicious dog breed,....or be so arrogant as to argue that only fearful people get attacked. My own son, when he was three, was in our yard (a 1 acre Vancouver Wa lot), when from the kitchen door I saw a predatory wolf-hybrid approaching him in a hunting way,...without hesitation, I lifted a rifle that was next to the door and shot the dog in the hind no less than five feet from my son who was unaware of the dogs approach. I was arrested, and latter the dogs owner attempted to sue me. In Vancouver, Wa one was not allowed to harm a vicious dog until after you have been mamed, or your child is dead. The only "clouded heart" is Dreamingawake's imagination and inconsiderateness for others who are daily terrorized by vicious breeds. V

So,...for zerostao let boys be boys,...let bullies be bullies,...let Vicious Breeds do what they're bred to do. "it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti But for Vicious Breed supporters,...it is a measure of their (I fear, need protection, regardless of the consequences to others) health.

No one said they get randomly attacked by 20 vicious breed dogs a day,...I, like many others who don't spend their days on the internet ridiculing from partially comprehending posts,..consistantly have vicious breeds lunging violently at fences, barking, growling at passersby, have walked dogs bark and growl at them, etc.,...usually with the AH owner saying something like, "oh, he doesn't bite." The average postman confronts a hundred or more dangerous dogs per day. The pit bull terrier is the breed of choice for criminals. Yes,...it is a fact that dangerous dog breeds, that is, pit bull terriers, and the fighting breed derivatives and ancestors of pit bull terriers, rottweilers and wolf hybrids, account for the majority of yearly deaths, horrific maulings, and other physical attacks by dogs,...but I'm talking about (WHICH PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF CONTINUALLY AVOID ADDRESSING) is the millions per day who are emotionally terrorized by these vicious breeds by inconsiderate owners. Base Housing of the US Armed Forces bans pit bulls and rottweilers. All communities that ban pit bulls and rottweilers have seen significant drop in attacks. But more significant is the drop in emotional terrorism these vicious breeds cause children and others. Nevertheless,...the HUGE and growing population of Vicious Breeds should very well be everyones personal concern,...only the ignorant and inconsiderate believe it's SOMEONE ELSES PERSONAL PROBLEM.

It is sad to read of your arrogance,...that you will show the millions of daily victims of Vicious Breed terrorism how to overpower attacks, and their fright when Vicious Breeds lunge at fences with barks and growls when children walk by,...Krishnamurti said, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. Vicious Nreed owners feed this profoundly sick society. Your posts have shown an incomprehensiveness and lack of empathy for others of the subject being disgust. I have no difficulty with the interruptions and daily disturbances caused by Vicious Breeds on my walks past the numerous homes of inconsiderate, fearful people who feel the need for protection, and snicker at the people their "pets" terrorize. However, I do daily see, and feel empathy for those emotionally startled by aggressive Vicious Breeds lunging at people,...and occasionally, by those I've witnessed being physically attacked. The population of Vicious Breeds in any Country or State is testamony to the level of fear, inconsiderateness, and hatefulness that the people of that Country or State feels towards their fellow humans. The Vicious Breed populations, and those of their inconsiderate owners, have a vibrational impact on all that enter those Dis-communities. I praise Countries like Germany that have begun banning Vicious Breeds,...putting their communities before the fear-based desires of neurotic, inconsiderate individuals. Vicious Breeds is a very important subject for any spiritual person to engage in,...and has implied much about level of spirituality on this forum. V

It is a New Age fallacy that dogs only attack those who are afraid. It is a fact that millions of people are terrorized by dogs everyday. My own path is interrupted by Vicious dog breeds at least 20 times per week,...but then most people over 18 and under 55 don't walk, but drive everywhere. I know many, many people who were attacked by Vicious Breeds, not just one,...it was just one example. Just because you appear blessed for not having been terrorized by Vicious Breeds, does not mean that it does not occur to millions everyday,...like people walking down a street and a Vicious Breed scares the pee out of them. And no,...my posts are not hateful at all, but totally in empathy with the millions that are terrorized by Vicious Breeds everyday in the world. It is very dad that you do not empathize with those victims, but insist on supporting the inconsiderate owners, who are in essence, propagators of violence and terrorism. Every spiritual person on the planet should be concerned about this subject. You are correct,...when there is no fear, there will be peace,...but also, when there is no fear, no one will need a Vicious Breed,...and when there is peace, no one would consider disturbing that peace by owning a Vicious Breed. As for "supporting evidence" regarding the terrorism, attacks, and deaths by Vicious Breeds,...there is numerous date available,...that's way Germnany and other peace orientated societies have banned them. V

Good for you,...go visit a panther/wolf inhabited forest, and enjoy your brief harmony,...or go out on the tundra and take a harmoneous nap. Perhaps you could practice your harmony with creatures with a web of poisonous spiders or room of Inland Taipans. Hey, if no one is forcing those situations upon you, go for it. But what if the Inland Taipan, owned by your neighbor comes in your yard and kills your 3 year old son,...can you be harmoneous with that? What about the millions of people everyday who are terrorized by Vicious Breeds while minding their own business,...is that their fault? Are those victims not being harmoneous enough for you? "Despite domestication, dogs, like their ancestors wolves, remain cunning, swift, agile, strong, territorial and voracious,...sharp teeth and claws and powerful muscles in their jaws and legs and can inflict serious injuries. The lacerations even from inadvertent dog scratches, let alone deliberate or reckless bites, are easily infected" I personally know someone attacked by a rottweiler while walking down a street holding her 9 month old child. She was bit twice, which became infected, and was hospitalized. Three operations, and 10 weeks of radiation therapy regained her physical wellbeing, but is emotionally scarred even 30 years later. Perhaps she should have been more harmoneous. Between 2000 and 2011, Pit Bulls were reported in 32% to 53% of all attacks. Fatal dog attacks in the United States rise every year. They account for a fraction of all attacks,...and attacks account for a fraction of the terror these breeds cause. My suggestion,...stop appeasing those who feel they need to own a Vicious Breed, by saying that the victims were not harmoneous enough. V

LOL It's a no brainer! Unless you're own a zoo or work for an animal shelter, there are few reasons why a loving person would own a Vicious Breed. Owning a Vicious Breed for protection is not the same as having a gun,...a Vicious Breed CANNOT be controlled unless in an enclosed solitary confinement,...and where's the compassion in that. However, not to mention the millions of Vicious Breed attacks per year, most Vicious Breed owners love when their Vicious Breed terrorizes people walking near their homes or vehicles. Anyway,...anyone who supports Vicious Breed ownership are part of the problem that sustains fear, hate, and terrorism in the world,...not the cure. It's a no-brainer! If there was no fear in the world, the only Vicious Breeds would be found in zoos. The more fear in the world, the larger the Vicious Breed population. The only belief we're talking about is that of Vicious Breed owners. It is not a belief that a dog bred to be vicious does not terrorize millions of people daily. If you don't GET IT,...you probably won't in this currently fear-based world,...that seeks to make their fears more palatable by nurturing more fear. "The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that". - Martin Luther King, Jr. Loving people do not own Vicious Breeds. V

Light is neither soft or harsh,...except as perception views it as such. A Bodhisattva is much like a mother who identifies with her sick child,...7 billion fold. Many misunderstand Buddhisms instructions on non-attachment. Non-attachment to the Six Senses is not to be un-identified with all others,...for their suffering is your suffering. Vicious Breed owners live with terrible suffering. They do not identify with Others, and have no consideration for trauma their vicious breeds bring to others. They identify with their imagined fear, without consideration how their remedy of owning vicious breeds multiples that vibration of fear into the environment. As for your question,...for example, if I'm repulsed by a pediphile or rapist, does that mean I'm a pediphile or rapist, because I see it? Actually, I watched an interview of a pediphile commenting on another pediphile, who described the other pediphile as someone "showing their unconditional love to their victim." Just like Vicious Breed own terrorists support other vicious breed owners, and how their dog can protect and rip others to shreads. Go figure!

"blanket statement from Osho"....you mean, That Anyone Who Gives You a Belief System is Your Enemy? Sure,...that certainly is "an Early Stage Teaching." And thus suggests that the majority of people, which definitely include "Vicious Breed owners", are still covered in the mud of the groupthink. As the 1st Century Gnostic text says,..."when you can disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments (beliefs) and place them under your feet like little child and tread on them, then you will no longer be afraid". V

Kindred Spirits!,...thanks for the link. Beliefs deny, suppress, disempower, disconnect. Religion = a set of beliefs. Spirit is the in-breath/out-breath (yang/yin) of duality that shows the way home. Spirituality = a practice leading to the threshold where the Six Senses are transcended. Belief limits our understanding. Jim Walker, in The Problems with Beliefs, mentions: Aristotle believed in a prime mover, a god that moves the sun, the moon, and other objects through space. However, with such a belief, one cannot possibly understand the laws of gravitation or inertia. Isaac Newton saw through faulty mental model of reality and developed a workable gravitational theory; however, his belief in absolute time prevented him from formulating a theory of relativity. Einstein saw through that impediment and conceived of relative time. Therefore, he formulated his famous general theory of relativity, yet his own beliefs could not accept pure randomness in subatomic physics and thus barred him from understanding the consequences of quantum mechanics. V

Yes,...ego thinks that so,...but as Osho said, "it's the wrong thing,...it's opium,...it keeps you unaware of reality"

St Augustine had horrifically sensual dreams,...however, enlightened ones do not dream,...they woke from the dream, even while sleeping. For those who suggest they are lucid in dreams while sleeping, why aren't they lucid while so-called awake in the illusion? If someone is really lucid, are they lucid in the dreams they are having while they are so-called awake? Or do they "think" their subconscious is only active while the sleep,...as if there are no stars overhead in the daytime. V