Vmarco

Except for a few (like Teresa of Avila, who is said to have realized that there is no Abrahamic God before her death), I noticed very few "deep thinkers" within Christianity,...instead there are many people who have deliberated on their theo-beliefs solely for display and devotion,...not to discern their holy books critically and honestly. Anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy. Great Christian thinkers: "Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." -- Martin Luther "If the church should have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appear white, we ought in like manner pronounce it black." St Ignatius Loyola "every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman". Clement of Alexandria "girls begin to talk and to stand on their feet sooner than boys because weeds always grow up more quickly than good crops". Martin Luther etc, etc, etc. Christianity is a proven, dishonest theo-belief system,...thus, how can anyone "deeply think" within those beliefs and be honest? V

Although many would discard it out-of-hand because of cultural predispositons, every sentence above, in my opinion, is worthy of serious consideration.

"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." Lucy Parsons

I recall reading about when the Steam Engine trains were about to reach 50 mph in the 1800's, and not only did the majority of people think that anyone traveling that fast would go insane, but some even thought it would bring about the destruction of the physical world by unbalancing nature. Well, change is coming Stig. Your traditional Daoist principled views do not match the nature of Tao. But I do understand your Charles H. Duell nature,...you know, the guy who said "Everything that can be invented has been invented." Charles H. Duell, U.S. Commissioner of Patents, in 1899. Unlike yourself, I have spent many years in wildernesses, forests, mountains, and deserts,...and know the difference between Form and Empty, and Empty and Form. Your posts indicate a person fully absorbed by materialism and phenomena, and thus too blocked to understand the Tao. But, hey, hope you enjoyed your morning union,...although I think even ACIM had a better grasp of Tao than you. ACIM commented: What about the beauty and goodness in the world? The so-called positive aspects of our world are equally as illusory as the negative ones. They are both aspects of a dualistic perceptual universe, which but reflect the dualistic split in the mind of Man. The famous statement "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is also applicable here, since what one deems as beauty, another may find to be aesthetically displeasing, and vice versa. Similarly, what one society judges as good, another may judge as bad and against the common good. This can be evidenced by a careful study of history, sociology, and cultural anthropology. Therefore, using the criterion for reality of eternal changelessness that is employed in the Course, we can conclude that nothing that the world deems beautiful or good is real, and so it cannot have been created by Reality. Therefore, given that both beauty and goodness are relative concepts and thus are illusory, we should follow the injunction to always ask ourselves: "What is the meaning of what I behold?" (text, p. 619; T-3I.VII.13:5). In other words, even though something beautiful is illusory, it remains neutral, like everything else in the world. Given to the ego, it serves its unholy purpose of reinforcing separation, specialness, and guilt. Given to the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, it serves the holy purpose of leading us to an experience of truth that lies beyond perception. For example, a sunset can reinforce the belief that I can find peace and well-being only while in its presence, or it can help remind me that the true beauty of Man is my Identity, and that this beauty is internal, within my mind and independent of anything outside it." One of your problems Stig is your unwillingness to go beyond your human perceptions,...just like 99.6% of your fellow humans. You appear to cherish your perceptions, as if they can show you the Tao. However,...."it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti V

That's way narrow! Sounds like Stig's thinking process. Look at it quantumly,...Yang is a particle, Yin is a wave. You cannot ever see them both at the sametime. Things that are moving, charging, towards the sphere of solidity is moving in a centripetal Yang direction,...things that are expanding, discharging, back to a torus is moving in a centrafugal Yin direction. This stuff is more basic than kindergarten arithmatic,...thus I have no idea why you're not seeing it. That is meant to be disrespectful,...I'm just asking why. Warm water is not more yang than cold water. LOL Water comes from the disintegration of rocks, which expel CO2,...water is Yin because its moving away from solidity. V

Yes, Yang and Yin can have formal definitions, and thus synomynous attributes. It is you making shit up, and attempting reverse fundamental laws of nature from the perspective of your human-centric, sensory based, thinking, that intertwines Yang with Yin, and Yin with Yang, in way that could only be described as schizophrenic. How anyone can spew that dark, cold is contracted, generative, centripetal is beyond any logic,....contracted, generative, centripetal are attributes that make incandescence and heat,...in any World. My dialogue on Tao has nothing to do with traditional interpretations, but things more obvious than night and day. Thus I have no idea what you're spouting, but it isn't Tao. Or perhaps you simply have read my posts, but are just blindly agreeing with Stig. Only you know. V

Those are excellent points. Everything is both Yang and Yin,...what we are perceiving is the stage of "rhythmic balanced interchange." No,...water is not yang to ices's yin,...but the other way around. Ice, albeit water, is solid, thus Yang-ish, while water is moving away from solidity, thus Yin-ish. As you said "in some ways, yin to ice's yang (hardness for example)." There is always a preponderance of either Yang or Yin,...they are NEVER in balance,...their "rhythmic balanced interchange" is in balance. Any balance between two opposites is their dissolution. It is of the most importance to recognize the difference between Yang and Yin, because it through Yin that the Gateless Gate to understanding Who we are is uncovered. Yang is Yin, and Yin is Yang, just as Form is Empty, and Empty is Form. If we are only seeing Form and the Yin-ness of Form (Eve), we are recognizing Yin as herself (Lilith). Adam and Eve are not equals within a "rhythmic balanced interchange." Adam and Lilith are the Yang and Yin. But as Lilith was demonized, so to was the Yin of Tao demonized, and apparently unrecognized by contemporary Daoist principles. V

For the most part, this has been a most interesting thread, considering the content of post #1 (and #3). Stig is arguing for Yin as Eve,...while I'm arguing Yin as Lilith. If you cannot see the difference, than you cannot see the difference. V

Water is not Yin because it's dark and cool,...Water is Yin because it's moving away from form, integration, pressure increase, converging, towards DARK/COOL of unforming, disintegration, pressure decrease, diverge. Your Daoist principles are discussing human perceptions of objects, and denying the Tao of that object. Fire does not seek a higher place,...there is no fire in the higher place,...fire is a process of the rhythmic balanced interchange of yang (heat) becoming Yin (cold). Yang is always known by is centripetal motion, while Yin is always known by its centrafugal motion. Yang and Yin are two aspects of the same moving thing. Yin descends for an apple blossom to form, that form is Yang, Yang winds crystallized light into an apple, the apple falls, hits you on the head, and Stig says, "Ah, gravity", and walks away telling everyone of his discovery. But, if Stig would have stayed under the tree, he would see Yin become predomenant, by decaying the apple, who expanded, unforming, disintegrating, pressure decrease rises up, to complete the cycle,...thus seeing Tao as Tao. Fire does not naturally rise, the heat of the fire rises, expanding into cold. Water does not compress, it is in the process of diverging from compressed Yang form into Yin's vapor. Again, you're not seeing the rhythmic cyclical nature of the moving Tao. Your Daoist principle order of things may have been great for the times it was interpeted for,...but its missing a recognition of the Tao, from the Tao's point of view. The Tao's point of view must be the same as the Quantum view, or Light's point of view, or the Tao would be untrue,...and the Tao is not untrue. So, if the Tao is not untrue, then there is something untrue or misguided about your interpretation of the Tao, because your interpretation is not harmoneous with the nature of nature. Although I understand that Daoist principles have evolved into a philosophy and religion, the Tao is neither a philososphy nor religion. You have been arguing for a philosophy,...while I'm arguing Tao. Moving, incandescent objects are borne from moving, dark, objectless space. All incandescent Yang is surrounded by Yin's dark. Where is it ever true that light conquers dark? There is no amount of light that can illuminate all dark, for in Duality, darkness always surrounds it. Rudolph Steiner once said that light was the antipathic aspect of polarity, whereas darkness is its sympathic expression. The Patriarchy wants to deny the rhythmic balanced interchange of nature, by indoctrinating ideas like light conquering dark. They don't want to know that all phenomena, through the nurturance of darkness, dies into light. Polarity's Yang light does not hold within itself the potential to birth, for it is a result already spawned through Yin's darkness. A prevalant human construct suggests that light is good and dark is evil,...not because it is, but because to understand the truth would wreck the fragile fabric of society's patriarchial brewed philosophical and religious beliefs they cling to for their identity. From what I'm reading, your ideas are not supporting a Matriarchy point of view, but a patrifocal view of a matriarchy point of view. V

Actually,...energy is just one aspect of Light. Light is Tao. WuJi = Undivided Light, TaiJi = Divided Light (electrodynamic Field). V

Another thread in the toilet. Forget the Buddha forum,....perhaps TTB needs a potty forum. Walter Russell: Attributes of Yang - Yin Dimensions Yang......................................Yin Space dimensions contract.......Space dimensions expand Male Preponderance...............Female Preponderance Temperature increase..............Temperature decrease Pressure increase.....................Pressure Decrease Ironization decreases...............ironization increases Condensation/increasing mass.....Evaporation/decreasing mass Centripetal.................................Centrafugal Imploding.................................Exploding inward.....................................outward compressive..............................expansive gravitative..................................radiative IMO His list compliments my own. Another example of the Tao, in opposition to tradtional Daoist principles. "The whole Universe is manifested through One Force divided into pulsations so that it appears to be two opposing forces that continually cycle in rhythmic balanced interchange to seek out balance and unity, but this is never the end result for if it were there would be no motion, and no life, and no Universe." Walter Russell V

I would suggest (considering post #1 and #3) that there two aspects of the females,...an original female, created equal with the male, the Sky Female,....Mother Sky,...the familiarity of which has been planetarily suppressed,....and a patriarchial female,...Mother Earth,...designed, by hook and crook, to hide the essence of the Great Feminine,...Yin,...from being known. I suggest that Father Sky and Mother Earth exemplify a Patriarchial, Yang mentality that is so thoroughly effacing of authentic Yin, that the World suffers greatly from the withholding. In other words, people have become so thoroughly convinced that Form is Form, and Formlessness (an equal anti-matter)is not part of its cycle, to keep any naked, unstructured, unborn awareness from rising in the Collective Consciouness. Thus the sciential, Object-ive Materialist fears Aphrodite. Tim Ward said, "they want the foam, the aphros of Aphrodite, but not her depth,...people do not want the wisdom of Aphrodite to get inside them." People don't an Aphrodite with wings. The feminine Vajravarahi is associated with the naked, unstructured periphery of the universe, not the dense, structured, masculine form. To understand her, one must venture into the heart. Today, the heart is another aspect of the Sentient Being,...its a safe, patrifocal version of the heart. There are IMO two aspects of female,...the man-made aspect, which is somewhat acceptable in a Patrifocal world,...and the Dakini,...the Sky Dancer. IMO everyone can access the Sky Dancer within them. A Tantra Master said: "The very qualities of being a disciple are the qualities which are feminine -- receptivity, openness, trust, love, a deep surrender. And if a man becomes a disciple, he will automatically grow qualities which are female. There is nothing wrong in it. Qualities are qualities, and all beautiful qualities are feminine -- love and trust and compassion and gratitude and surrender. All beautiful qualities are feminine. It is not a question concerned with your sexuality; your being a male or female has many dimensions. One of the dimensions is that there are qualities intrinsic to females which make them easily disciples. There are men who have those qualities -- those qualities are not the monopoly of anybody. There are men who are more soft than any woman, more loving than any woman, more grateful than any woman -- but the qualities are feminine." V

Yes, those are important points. However,...the ability to recognize the masculine as the masculine, accelerates the process of uncovering. The more, and quicker, you understand Who you are not, the less and less one tries to hold onto a reality that doesn't exist. Although many believe that the process to uncover who they are takes thousands of lifetimes, I'm suggesting, what if, it be realized in less than one lifetime. I agree that there is no Pure Yin or Pure Yang,...if I insinuated that anywhere, it was an unfortunate mistake. If Yang could separated from Yin, it would contract, integrate, coverge, spiral-in, heat, into something that could not exist,...likewise, Yin would expand, disinterate, diverge, spiral-out, cold, into something that could not exist. In fact, according to nature of Light,...if either Yang or Yin did not maintain a perfect "harmoneous balanced interchange" the universe would dissappear in a millisecond. In many, many ways, Yin is hidden to the cerebral-centric human. We may say water is Yin,...but really, water is just an early stage of Yang Form returning to Yin formlessness. Actually, from my point of view, Light is the best teacher of Tao,...and as nothing about us is not Light, it's quite useful. V

The Letting Go of Who you "think" you are, to be Who you are, is the noblest discernment. To uncover Who you are without realization of the feminine is utter folly. I certainly agree that the dropping of knowledge is a key,...however, the dropping of knowledge that leads to gnowledge is a problem that sustains the unreal, by obscuring the real. In other words, your inability to discern the false as the false, in this case, that understanding the feminine aspect of the Tao in motion is to you, a worthless goal, is an attachment to accumulated beliefs, which keeps the real you from being gnown. Stepping into the fray, can be a valuable vehicle to see if the giving up of being other than you are, is really the giving up of being other than you are, or simply who you think you are tricking the real you that you're really who you are. I love critique,...especially when my posts are critiqued,...although it is also helpful critiquing the messages of others. But then, I assume that everyone on this forum is here, albeit subconscious for most, because they want to understand a faint, primordial sound that won't go away. They hear stories of some who realized the music in the sound, and that music brought joy to the Hearts of those who could hear. And I'm saying, that music is the feminine,...the unfolded, spiral-out, diverging, expansive, centrafugal, exhaling nature of Yin. If the you that you believe you are is only interested in Yang,...the folded, spiral-in, converging, contractive, centripetal, inhaling nature of Form,...so be it. V

I haven't observed anything beyond WuJi (Undivided Light) or TaiJi (Divided Light). Everything, and every non-thing is Tao and Light. The question is, does focus on one, without the other, increase or decrease one's capability to understand both,...which are, if I can be so bold, the Same. V

Yes,...it is quite difficult to recognize something one has spent a great deal studying as meaningless. I have no desire to change the wrongs of the partiarchy,...but merely call a spade a spade. My interest in this topic was in seeing if you could recognize the false as the false. As for running away from discussions? You brought the discussion here. I like the discussion. In fact, I'm very curious why you see things the way you do,...and why you have a problem putting yourself into the shoes of what you're discussing,...for example, to see yang or yin from yang or yin's point of view? What I'm even more curious about, is if you ever open to see the points of my above posts on the nature of Yang-Yin, I so much want to hear why you were seeing it upsidedown to begin with. For me, that would be such an awesome gift,...to read of someone finally realizing, such as, that Yin is radiative, moving away, radial motion,...and inquire as to why they couldn't see something so obvious before. V

What is not Light? V