JessOBrien

I don't know Colorado geography, but I know someone who is one of the best Ba Gua practitioners and best human beings I've ever met. His name is Lee Burkins: coloradointernalarts.com He will not steer you wrong. Jess O

I've trained with Lee Burkins in Montrose. http://www.coloradointernalarts.com/ He's got a lot of gung fu skill, and is an amazing human being. Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

There is a lot of debate about sport v. martial art. It's simple, they are two different universes. Like ping pong versus piano. Sure they both take concentration, talent and hard work to do well. But one is a sport, and one is an art. Sport takes insane amounts of training, daily focused effort of 6 hours a day, coaching, conditioning, ruthless mentality to push through injury. Sweat, blood and tears. To do sport well is an all consuming effort. The desire to WIN is paramount and cannot be made secondary. Sport is way harder than art. Art is something that anyone can do. From finger painting to Picasso, it's all in your perception of it. There is no win or lose. My grandma can do sport, so can my son. There's something for everyone in art. Now, there is fighting in both sport and in martial art. They can cross over, and there are good things to be learned from crossing over. But they CANNOT ever be the same thing, and there's not much use in comparing them. An 80 year old man I once knew spent years in China, fighting a guerilla war against Japanese on one side and Communists on the other. His family was killed, and he lived on very little food per day. He saw people die in front of him, sometimes by his own hand. I think everyone can try to imagine his experience. He told me Tai Chi saved his life. I just don't see how ring fighting could have done the same. Anyways, it's a debate that will go on forever, I've met good fighters in both worlds. Take care, Jess O

Hi all, I just typed up a long response then deleted it. Sorry, I can be long winded. Kumar, and all my other best Chinese kung fu teachers, told me if you want to get good you have to fight. Until you start winning. That's it. To get good at street fighting, you have to fight on the street. Lose teeth, break bones, go to jail, etc. No other choice. I've settled for mediocre. I spar normal blokes at my own level, and sometimes win. It's an amazing way to learn more about your self and your mind and your body. You only rise to the level of your opponents. I only spar chumps like myself, normal dudes who train an hour or two per day. So I'll always be average. Kumar went a different route. He sought out the best fighters, and lost some and won some. He paid the price physically, mentally and emotionally. Even spiritually. People got hurt. He wanted the skill that bad. I don't want it that bad. Sure I've sparred some ok Muay Thai and MMA bros. They are cool, and they taught me some lessons. But I've never sought to take it to the limit. Fuck that. That's a level of commitment that 99.99% of us will never go to. That's what creates great champions in sport and great martial artists in art. The view of Internal Martial Arts is:If you ever dream of getting good you MUST go out and fight opponents of every different kind, at the highest level of skill you can find, under every rule set you can. Otherwise you will NEVER, EVER, EVER reach a high level of skill. The End. Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

Hi Snowmonkey, Just to throw a few thoughts in this: BKF speaks of Water and Fire approaches to Taoist cultivation often. The Fire approach he refers to is in regards to his learning inside a Taoist cult in Taiwan and Hong Kong where he was ordained as a priest. It also refers to people he encountered in mainland China when he was given letters of recommendation and sent to visit various monastic groups. I can't say for sure, but I'm 99% sure that either he or his teacher coined the Fire/Water distinction, it's not drawn from a mainstream source. It's a metaphor he uses to point to different ways of achieving meditative and alchemical results. He says that Fire approaches of visualizing and moving Chi consciously are Extremely effective, in fact too effective to be taught without direct teacher supervision. He teaches his Water approach of letting go, and dissolving because he doesn't have time or desire to mentor students directly and monitor their progress. He says that Water approach is slow, and yields progress only one drop at a time, however it is much safer and can be practiced solo for the most part. Just a few things I've picked up in my study with him. I guess my take-away is that the Fire/Water thing is useful as a safety mechanism metaphor, but shouldn't be taken as a judgment of one or the other. Take care, Jess O

Hi Shenchi, Did you write the above article, or did Frank? Just curious, it's well written. I'd like to post it over on the yahoo group Taoist Water Tradition where we discuss Kumar's system. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/TaoistWaterTradition/ Let me know if that's cool with you. I like to study Kumar's system, it's good stuff. Me and my friends practice it a lot. If you are ever out on the West coast come get with us! We've learned a lot from Frank over the years, he is an awesome teacher and one hell of a good friend. Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

Hi Tyler and Sloppy Zhang, One thing about Kumar's system and probably true of others is that although you need to follow the steps in order to fully develop the material, you still have to take what you can get. So if you learn some aspects out of sequence, that's ok, just work on it for a while, and put it in your storage unit to pull out when you need it later. Jumping ahead can give you a new vision and sense of what you've already done, then when you get back to plowing through the basics you'll have a better sense of things and where you are headed. Plus the inspiration and excitement that comes with seeing how the puzzle fits together. Of course you can't just from step one to step 100 in one day. Realistically, you've got to just take what you can get when you can get it and run with it. Fill in the blanks as best you can, unless you are able to pull of a monastic lifestyle with a dedicated daily teacher who can lead you every step of the way, which of course would be preferred! But I have a feeling few of us are in that position... For that reason I think that any authentic meditation tradition will bring you the same benefits that you'll get from one system or the other. Sitting in Zen will of course benefit and enrich any Taoist meditation you do, and vice versa. People sometimes want to identify with and stay within one system, which makes sense, but if you are too rigid you miss out on great opportunities. I look to Kumar as an example, he trained with whomever he could, whenever he could from Japanese, Indian and Chinese sources. Ultimately they are all tools to transform and recognize our inner self. One is a hammer, one is a screwdriver, etc, but they are working on the same project, us. Martial arts are the same, you don't become Tai Chi, Tai Chi helps to develop you, when you are done with the tool discard it, or save it to use later. Kumar used to do a lot of Zen meditation, and he told me he was doing the Seshin retreats as a teenager. He felt that this really helped him as a meditator in the years to come, not to mention during his fighting years. So to me, no time cultivating is a waste, it's just another building block to something more satisfying later. Well anyways, just a couple of random thoughts from me! Take care, Jess O

Creation spells things out quite well. His breakdown of inner dissolving is on the right course. The metaphor Ice/Water/Space is just a metaphor. You need a lot of inner awareness in order to actually feel this process take place, which is then beyond description. However, getting the sheer awareness you need in order to do this inner work is where the effort lies at first. Standing practices, internal martial arts, chi gung, etc can all help you build up awareness. So they aren't meditation per se, but they give you the raw material that you'll need in order to get anywhere with meditation. For me internal martial arts are a great vehicle for this. Can you stay fully present and aware while performing a Tai chi form? That's a great way to build presence and awareness. Then you apply this awareness to freestyle fighting and sparring to further develop and ingrain your ability to stay present. As Kumar has said many times, the bloodiest and ugliest fights he got into were nothing compared to the horrors he faced when meditating. His Taoist meditation method is about stirring up the garbage within you and cleaning it out. Not covering it up or hiding it. For that reason, it's not an easy path. You have to face what's within you. Using this "water" philosophy of going slow but sure is your only hope, if you run at it full force you'll hit a brick wall. Use slow, methodical steps to dissolve and over time it will happen, and many things will let go without you even noticing. I was there for the recording of Tao of Letting Go. It was a long, intense process of going through each emotion, thought and experience you've ever had and focusing on each one. Not exactly a vacation... Of course, this is what we have to do, ignoring our deepest thoughts and feelings just lets them fester. For me, the internal martial arts method is the best road to get into the meditation work. The aliveness and awareness you develop in the fighting practice are the best friends you'll have on the meditation journey. The fear and ego that come up in sparring are just the beginning of the pollution we all have inside. If you can use IMA to become aware of these things, you'll be getting a head start. Sitting on it's own can sometimes lull you into a sense of passive floating, and although pleasant, it can be a time waster. If the anger and rage is deeply buried you can't work on it. Getting punched in the face really gets the worst emotions riled up and now you can apply your awareness to them. The last few years we've spent working on the Ba Gua as Taoist meditation that Kumar's teacher learned when he was a monk in Sichuan. The method is the same, you use circle walking at high speeds to try and stir up the emotions and thoughts within. You use various awareness practices, focusing on certain energy gates, moving energy through channels, holding arm postures, switching speeds and directions rapidly, even accessing fields and ... "stuff" outside of your own body. A lot of different techniques are used to access whats inside, then Inner Dissolving is used to soften, disperse and generally vacuum up the crap that arises. At the peak of it all you sit and let go for as long as you can handle it. Then back to the walking. It's been a very challenging process. Frustrating at times, and really amazing at others. It's changed my view of martial arts quite a bit. I never wanted to hurt anyone, and I'm never gonna be a UFC champ. But I can use forms, fighting and sitting to investigate myself and have one hell of a good time. That's martial arts to me. Sincerely, Jess O

I've met some who were educated within the I Kwan Tao. In Taiwan many martial arts people were/are involved with the I Kwan Tao. Some Ba Gua and Xing Yi people from Tianjin were high ranking members who brought it to Taiwan, and so it's been linked with "internal" martial arts for quite a while. It was banned by KMT and also by CCP. But many religions have been banned by authorities over the years, to me that doesn't mean much. Taoism is a wide and vast religion. There are many schools and groups within it. Many of them denounce each other. I don't have any reason to believe some over others. Be smart, investigate what interests you, but don't be an idiot and act like your way is the only way. There are many types of people, so there are many paths for us to follow, most of which are quite useful. Good luck, Jess O

Hi all, Yeah the Fire v. Water thing is a bit oversimplified. I see it as Bruce's way of orienting people toward the way of practicing, keeping one focused on the wu wei aspect of "soft" intention rather than "hard" intention. Perfectionism and hard-driving, results-focused lifestyle might lead someone to overdo things in the world of internal practice. So the Water concept might seem a bit overboard, but it's meant to keep people from straining themselves forcing microcosmic orbits or clenching themselves up trying to transform one thing to another. He always emphasizes that you use a soft intention - focus your attention but without attachment to forcing results. As mentioned above Ice-Water-Gas is a metaphor. It's pointing to an experience that cannot be put into words. The way Bruce teaches it, you put your attention on the painful place and leave it there. Don't try to do anything, just keep your mind there, which can be incredibly hard. Pain is something we flee from, not go into. But with time, that attention will of it's own accord allow the tension to dissolve, in it's own good time. Hopefully.. It's the slow but sure way of things, and I think there are ups and downs to either path. Bruce himself was/is an extremely Fire person, so this "water" perspective helped him balance out. Others may need a little more zap in their practice to really get it moving. For me, I came to him to learn martial arts. The "water" orientation of using softness and relaxation to create power, helped me learn how to take hits better, find openings better, and hit much much harder. Lately he's been teaching much more meditation stuff, which folds perfectly into the martial practices. Overall, there are many ways to go about this stuff, and Bruce has some really inspiring ideas. One event of his should give you enough to work on for a year. Each of the parts of his system contain the whole within them, so one course should give you an entry door to find the pieces that you want to work on. Best of luck and good training! Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

Hi Sloppy Zhang, What you've said here is pretty accurate. Liu found the Taoist sect that Dong Hai Quan had learned from. Although he was already an accomplished martial artist and meditator, he spent 10 years in Sichuan learning circle walking Taoism from these monks. That is one of the factors that sets BKF's system apart. Most Ba Gua people aren't too interested in meditation in the first place. It's useful to a point, but going all the way with meditation is more work than most people want to put in, me included! Over the last week we've been training with Bruce in the material the Liu learned in the mountains. Last week we spent a LOT of work on opening up the energy of the eyes and brain and feet all simultaneously, so that the upper body and lower body can be woven together at an extremely deep level. It's very, very tiring and requires a level of concentration and focus that I can barely pull together. But it sure makes my head and feet feel interesting. I've only barely touched on the work that goes with these training methods, but it's already made a difference in my sitting and sparring practice. At this point Bruce is determined to leave all the martial arts aspects of Ba Gua behind and focus entirely on the Taoist material that Liu taught him within the circle walking. This is unfortunate because Bruce's combat skill with Ba Gua is high level, I've been on the receiving end many times and it's brutal. However, the meditation aspects are worth preserving, so I'm happy that he's passing some of that on before it's entirely lost. One thing for sure, Ba Gua Zhang is a very deep study, and has so many twists and turns along the way. I really enjoy it! Sincerely, Jess O

Hi all, My friend and I are starting up a Chi Gung class here in the Bay Area (California), that will focus on the set known as Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body as taught by BK Frantzis. Anybody here worked with it before? Any thoughts on it? I've spent quite some time on it and found it to be quite useful on different levels. But particularly as a shortcut to power training for martial arts. Take care, Jess O

Wow, cool that many people enjoy standing chi gung. I think it's a wonderful training method, with many benefits. In BK Frantzis's system, there is a progression within the training of the Nei Gung sets. There are three main sets, Opening the Energy Gates, Heaven & Earth, and Gods Playing in the Clouds. Each set is used to explore the territory of sixteen different elements of nei gung. Once you've completed training within those sixteen aspects of nei gung, you then move on to internal martial arts, healing and or meditation in order to work with these nei gung elements, to refine them and use them for various purposes. You can use the nei gung to improve your fighting ability, your healing ability or ability to meditate and uncover your inner nature. Opening the Energy Gates is the first main set, and it includes standing, the swings and a spine stretch. This set works with the nei gung elements of energy channels, dissolving, lengthening and twisting among others. Once you have the basics down, you move on to the second half of Opening the Energy Gates, which is known as Spiraling Energy Body. It's not really a set of it's own, it's just the second, more difficult half of the Energy Gates set. Some consider the Spiraling work to be super advanced, but originally it was taught immediately after the student got the basics of dissolving. Dissolving within the Energy Gates set teaches you how to ground and release stuck energy in your body. If you can do this, then you always have a way of ensuring the the work of Spiraling doesn't screw you up. It's a safety mechanism of sorts, a self-defense against the rising of energy that can get stuck in the brain or elsewhere. Whereas Opening the Energy Gates only uses the Wu Ji posture for the dissolving work, Spiraling takes place while holding any of the two hundred standing postures that are a part of the system. The key difference is that at this point, you work with drawing energy up from the earth, rather than just dropping it through your body over and over which is what you do in Energy Gates. By slightly pointing the tailbone and minutely shifting the weight onto the balls of your feet, you begin drawing energy up your legs, and eventually all the way through the top of your head. However, this process is taught slowly, so that you "wire in" the energy at each stage of your body. First with general flows, then with each and every single specific energy gate in the body, you draw energy up, then dissolve it back down. Over and over for each point until the moving of the energy is second nature and doesn't result in emotional or mental jolts. Of course, energy is already moving in your body on its own, the Spiraling process is about using your consciousness to further engender and strengthen these flows, as well as helping to open up areas where flows are blocked. In this particular system you need a solid basis in dissolving and letting go in a downward direction to strengthen your nerves and open up your blockages before you get into the upward flows. Systems that pull the energy up from the start have the potential to be overly effective and cause the student to "pack" their system with too much energy and cause distorted mental and emotional states. That's why this system puts such an emphasis on letting go and dissolving first. Other aspects of the Spiraling work include dissolving the energy around your body progressively further out into space which is "external" dissolving, intentionally spinning the energy of each individual energy gate, and then finally drawing energy flows through those spinning gateways, which causes such flows to spiral in their normal pathways. This can really help build up your energy for daily life, and for specialized use such as martial arts, healing and meditation. My friend Isaac Kamins and I have been teaching the Energy Gates set for the last few months here in the Bay Area, and for the month of February we will go into some of the Spiraling Energy Body work, for those who are interested and ready to dig into it a bit. Then from March - May we will go back to the Energy Gates and continue refining the basics of standing/dissolving, swings and spine stretch. Please join us if you want to check it out! www.watertradition.net Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

I have a one minute minimum per day. Usually after the first minute, you are starting to enjoy it, and it stretches out to many minutes. If not, keep on with life, just keep doing "something" once per day. -Jess O

Very glad to see the responses here! I think this set is a solid one and the book is a good resource, with a mix of inspiring tales and concrete instructions for forming a foundation of chi gung practice. Also good to see people using it in conjunction with martial arts. Kumar did a lot of martial arts and worked hard at it. All of his chi gung material meshes really well with martial arts. Working with him opened my eyes a bit to how martial arts and spirituality can work together. At first I just wanted to be good and be able to fight. Once I could do that a bit, I realized that the fighting was a way to make my mind and body work under pressure, it became a fascinating test to see how awake I could be under difficult conditions. And it continues to be a very challenging process. One thing about these "internal" arts that I always love is how they mesh with each other so well. The skills transfer in useful ways and one can grow within their arts as they grow older and "wiser". Or so I'd hope!! More to post on this set, will do so soon. Take care, Jess O

The martial aspects of Opening the Energy Gates can be quite fruitful. On one level, combining nei gung principles with the various exercises just plain increases your ability to concentrate. So if you can keep your attention on breathing while at the same time standing or moving, that in itself can help strengthen your concentration. The more complex it gets the more you train your mind to stay present. This in itself is a huge part of the Internal approach to fighting. Under the stress of full contact fighting, if you can stay 1% more awake than the other guy, it's a big advantage. So by training that during nei gung on your own, you are creating the ability to increase your mind's strength under pressure. Of course when the punch lands on your face, it gets a LOT harder! And at first you tend to lose while attempting to do this. But again, over time it really builds on itself. Another level is utilizing the Dissolving work while standing, moving and then fighting. It's very very hard to do at first. Keeping the flow of releasing tension going while you move fast means that it must be programmed in on automatic. If you have to concentrate on the dissolving during a match, you will get clobbered. However, the irony is that by trying this stuff in sparring, you'll actually vastly increase your ability to do it solo. Like swimming in the deep end, it's scary and you might drown. But if you don't, the shallow, mellow end of the pool gets way easier to deal with. That's why I like to say that martial arts is a shortcut to Chi Gung. If you can apply this stuff while fighting, doing it solo is much easier. Dissolving during sparring is a whole new level of difficulty. However, if you can get the dissolving going, every little bit helps. It helps loosen up and release the weight of your body, so that each movement becomes more full, heavy and higher impact. Another key aspect is that over time it creates a kind of soft Iron Body. When you get hit, you apply the dissolving to that area. You release, soften, let go of and "melt" the pain of the strikes. It's weird but the kinetic energy of the strike then kind of sticks to your field. It's like being a vampire, when they hit you, you use dissolving to "steal" their energy. It sounds crazy, but if your mind is able to stay present during the impact, you can absorb and keep a small little bit of their energy when they hit. Of course, if it's a strong enough strike to really hurt you, you can't absorb it. But if you are able to stay with it, I think dissolving is a great way to decrease the pain of being struck, and indeed make it your own advantage. This is just the tip of the iceberg really. I've learned a lot from this set, and there is much more to it. Then when you get to the swings, you get into the offensive power, which can be very very useful. Just a few thoughts, take care, Jess O

Glad you guys are liking the book. Agreed that the standing and dissolving is harder than it looks. But over a few months it gets easier, watch out though it can be addictive! Relax each part one at a time. I think of it as a way to get to know yourself a bit better. You'll also start to notice your mind chattering, but that's another story. Let go of tension wherever you find it, that's the main point of dissolving. The next stage is the simple Cloud Hands movement. You can use the one in the book, or from your own Tai Chi form, either way. The point is to combine the Dissolving work with the simple movement. This creates a whole new level of difficulty. It's amazing how fast we get sidetracked from something as simple as feeling inside ourselves! Trippy how our lives are so geared toward mental activity that our basic physical body becomes so distant to our experience. Again, over time it becomes much easier. My feeling is that by consciously dissolving and letting go of hardness, it becomes unconscious. So eventually you let go of stuff before it even gets stuck. I've experienced this a small amount in my life. It becomes your first line of defense against habitual tension and clenching, etc. You tend to notice more how you feel inside, which is a good thing. Kumar teaches in a very detailed manner. You'll see in the DVD that he goes into pretty absurd levels of detail. At first it's too much. But over time you can spend a while with each alignment or requirement and they become more useful. It's easy to get stuck in a sense of it being too hard though. Just take it easy, and spend a few minutes a day on it, is my advice. -Jess O

Hi Orb, thanks for your reply. Of course we all have our experience in life, and you can't be expected to know much about IMA if you haven't trained it a lot. It's a pity that there are people out there who are in a state a fantasy about their fighting skill. If you don't fight, you can't fight, it's that simple. The only way to get good at fighting is to do it against skilled fighters. People who live in a pretend world are sad to me and I don't hang out with them much, so I don't see a lot of that kind of thing. I would however like to point out that IMA people aren't the only ones with delusions of grandeur, and there are plenty of MMA bros who could use a reality check once in a while. As for Tank Abbot I also know a number of people who would defeat Tank quite soundly in a sport match, but not IMA people. They all train a lot harder than I do. My point is that fighting professional athletes is not something that most of us in IMA or EMA are up for. We don't train at the level they do, so it couldn't be expected for us to fight with them, in regular life or in a sporting match. This brings me to something I've thought a lot about that is pertinent to IMA training. Asian martial arts and fighting sports are two different things. Sports require intense athleticism, endless hardwork, heavy competition, constant fitness work, and a unstoppable drive to win. The final goal is to win the match, regardless of what it takes. Asian martial arts are a very different thing. Some are intense. Some are mellow. Some seek art of movement. Some seek energetic flows within the body. Some seek sport skills. Some seek healing. Asian martial arts has all of this within it and more. There is something for old grannies and hotheaded fighters. Asian martial arts are a HUGE topic of study and have almost endless variety. There are not generalizations to make, except that fighting of some kind is involved. Some IMA can be used for specific ring sports if trained properly. Most don't do that. IMA can be used to hurt people in real life. Most don't train it for that. Historically there have always been upper crust people training for fun and poor downtrodden training for gang and ring fighting. The spectrum of options within Asian martial arts is 1000X bigger than the sport fighting world. Because it's an art, not a sport. So the goals are different and the skills are used in different ways. One of my teachers survived a three way war with Japan, Communism and the KMT. By the time it was over most of his family was killed, his country was overthrown and he was exiled, barely escaping with his life. He survived war, famine, disease and genocide levels of slaughter. And that was before he got thrown in prison for being in the wrong political party. He told me straight to my face that without Tai Chi he would have long been dead. His statement led me to reflect on martial arts, sports and what Asian martial arts mean to us here in the west. All I can come up with is that we still have a lot to learn. -Jess O

Thanks Jesse! Looks like some nice discussions around here. -Jess O

Sam F. S. Chin is a highly accomplished practitioner of Buddhism, and his system of I Liq Chuan reflects that. They study awareness on a very deep level, which compliments the structure and nei gung training that they also have. Overall they have a wonderful system which has produced some competent fighters. An interview with Mr. Chin in my book "Nei Jia Quan, Second Edition" talks a lot about their training method and reveals a lot of insights that show some of the unique things about Chinese internal martial arts. Orb, your statement strikes me as a very strange one. You seem to be saying that people who train MMA are invincible somehow? Have you ever trained with the likes of Sam Chin (ILQ), Luo De Xiu (BGA), He Jin Bao (BGZ), John Wang (SC), or others of high caliber in the world of Chinese martial arts? I think that might help you understand how Internal martial arts can be useful for fighting. I've sparred with MMA trained people before. If I was better then I won. If they were better I lost. The beginners sucked like all beginners do. I used a Ba Gua kick to knock a MT guy down, but he'd trained less than a year. Does that mean MT sucks? I got punched and knocked on my ass by a MT guy with equal experience as me. Does that mean the IMA I trained sucked? I've been holding the pads and kicked by a MT fighter gearing up for a pro fight, it hurt like hell. The point I'm making is, fighting a professional ring fighter of any style is an absurd proposition for any hobbyist like myself who trains an hour or two per day. I've accepted that fact that I will never beat Tank Abbot. However, I like to spar with guys who are at my level, and I don't always win. I've learned a lot from such sessions. To say that no one who trains Chinese internal martial arts can withstand an "external" attack is a pretty silly generalization. It makes me think that you may not have been out and about a whole lot. If so, you might want to deepen your investigation a bit before you make such sweeping claims. Sincerely, Jess O'Brien Oakland, CA

Hi Tethys, I've been lucky enough to train with Frank a number of times. He has dedicated his life to Chinese martial arts, and is the top student of BK Frantzis's Ba Gua system. He knows a lot about Ba Gua and he knows how to use it well. The clip of Kumar in action is an old one, probably going on 20 years now. However I've been the dummy for his applications on many occasions. He hits very hard, fast and with much precision. When he engages it's a furious swarm of palm and forearm strikes that transform into locks and breaks if you happen to block any of the shots. If you don't, it almost always ends with a spine or neck shot. His skill at using Ba Gua for fighting is very high. I've been beaten by many martial artists but very few of them deliver like he does at close range. Although past his fighting prime, he has shown me many techniques that are incredibly adaptive and useful for a wide range of situations. Most important are the concentration and intention practices while walking the circle. These help train your awareness to stay very strong during the chaos of a sparring match. This allows you to move much "faster" than you normally would simply because you are more awake than the opponent. You also are able to do more intuitive techniques that seem to come out of nowhere, because your mind isn't slowing you down. All internal martial arts train this kind of awareness, but Ba Gua gives you a particularly twisty, spinning way of moving that is very effective. I have had a lot of full contact and other types of sparring experience, but never with particularly accomplished fighters, so I don't really take it past the "fun" stage. It's a valuable practice but only a small portion of what Chinese martial arts has to offer. Ba Gua training in my opinion is very applicable to sparring. Hope you enjoy training with Frank and get a lot out of it. If you take what you can and train it for a while, I think you'll get something useful from it. One more thing- if you are going to pursue internal martial arts you'll want to check out these events: Luo Dexiu Summer 2008 Seminar Series Gao Style Bagua, Hebei Xingyi, Chen Panling Taiji Boston, MA: July 23-30 Contact: Buddy Tripp ([email protected] or 508-524-3308) Luo De Xiu will be give you some things to train that will quickly transform your abilities, and more importantly you'll instantly see what all these internal martial arts are "supposed" to look and feel like. There's no better person to work with on the planet than Luo De Xiu in my opinion. Sincerely, Jess O

Hi Wen Wu, Cool! You are lucky to be learning from Master Zhu, he is well known for being a great teacher. The videos of him in action are terrific. I hope you train hard and learn a lot! What is the principle or concept you are working on the most at the moment? For myself it's trying to quiet inside while I walk, and let some of the crazy thoughts and images slow down as I circle. It's hard, but sometimes it works pretty well and I get into a very quiet, sensitive state. It's nice. Take care, Jess O'Brien

Hi Tethys, I've practices Kumar's Ba Gua for a while now, it's got some very good aspects. If you have a chance to learn from Frank, go for it. There's no one who's worked harder or longer at it than he has. There are a few aspects about Kumar's system that stand out: 1 emphasis on safety. The stepping drills are done softly and gently for a long time. It's boring, but it helps create a foundation. When people get too many complex forms too quickly, they can blow themselves out quite easily. I know I did. Later I had to spend a lot of time on the walking to fix the damage and strengthen my foundation. 2 simple forms, but depth to them. He doesn't have a huge series of sets like some styles, but each palm change can be trained in depth. We spent a long time on Single palm change before moving on to the rest. It's fine to learn as fast as you can, but when it comes to practice, take it step by step and really build up one at a time. keep the others in reserve for later. 3 rou shou and combat applications are very intuitive and utilitarian. Again, if you get a chance to work with Frank he will be able to instruct you in these aspects. They are top notch, but you'll need friends to spend the hours needed to make it fun and creative. It starts off frustrating and difficult, and only practice can transform that into something much more fulfilling. From the first day you'll be learning applications, and the sooner you start drilling them the sooner they'll be useful. The first movement of the form is the first application, it's only a question of how much you work on it. 4 meditative aspects. Most ba gua teachers reserve the meditative aspects for a while down the road. That's good because you need to unify your body and energy first. But Kumar's system jumps into it from the start. Learn it, work on it, but don't worry about it too much. You'll need to get the body together first. But down the road the meditative training is the key to all the fighting and I Ching stuff. Ba gua's meditation work can drastically accelerate your fighting skill, once you are ready to incorporate it. As you mentioned, clearing out blocked areas of the mind and body allow you to move much faster and in a more relaxed way. Stored unconscious tension prevents your force from landing effectively, and makes your actions stiff and weak. The meditation and chi practices make you much more fluid and alive. To me this is one of the keys to making Ba Gua work in a two person situation. As for fighting 8 people, that's hype, 1 is hard enough. It's nice to have 8 as a concept to keep in mind, but it's more of a principle than something you'll actually try to do. 5 Basic training. Every system of Ba Gua teaches circle walking, so in a way you just have to get your foot in the door somewhere. Ba Gua is very individualistic, so you'll likely need to search to find the right teacher for you to go to the edge with. In the meantime, pick up everything you can from the teachers you can find, and train it intelligently. Build up your foundation in walking and Single change, and whatever else you come across so that when you find your "real" teacher you'll be ready and able to get right into it. I know I've met and trained with dozens of teachers, but very few were the right ones for me. This is because that's how Dong Hai Quan created it, each system suits different people better than others. None are right for everyone. 6 I Ching, energy channels, yi, chi, bian hua, etc.... Let's just say there's plenty to work on here. Good luck in your quest. As mentioned before, working on alignments is the main priority so you don't hurt yourself, many of us learned that the hard way. I think if you work on it you'll find Ba Gua a very enjoyable study. There's some good folks out there to train with for sure. Sincerely, Jess O'Brien

Hi all, my name is Jess O'Brien, located in SF Bay Area. I did a religious studies degree at HSU and was always interested in religion of all sorts. Enjoyed eastern religions the most, and got involved with Chinese martial arts. I've learned a number of things over the years. One thing I like is the Taoist meditation I learned from BK Frantzis that I practice with walking the Ba Gua circle. Fun stuff. I joined here to post an upcoming seminar on that topic. Will do so shortly. If you are interested in working on this kind of material, lemme know. Hope all are well! Sincerely, Jess O PS I also like Joss Houses.