松永道

It was a quick translation to try and save a sinking thread and maybe a wee comment on why the thread detoured in the first place... Please post or contact me with your critique, I respect your words.

Ok, peace with it then. I've been busy all day these days, but I'd like to get this topic back on track so here is just a little bit on the 10th method, 凝神寂照 Ning Shen Jizhao Crystallizing the Spirit. 调息要调真息息，炼神要炼不神神， 凡息停而真息动，真息生而内炁行； 识神断而真神生，真神生而炼元神， 阴神全而阳神生，目空心空见真性。 Breath regulation means to cultivate the real breath, Shen cultivation means to practice a state of thoughtless awareness, When the common breath stops the real breath ignites, when the real breath begins internal Qi flows; Halt the ego (Shi Shen) and real awareness (Zhen Shen) emerges, Use real awareness to cultivate the original spirit (Yuan Shen), Yang Shen is born when the Yin Shen is pure, Eyes empty, heart empty, encounter true nature. Peace, Song

Procurator, I know you're a person will valuable things to say. But why are you sabotaging yourself? I think you have every right and reason to question, but the way you do it really reduces your chances of getting a good answer.

Buddha absolutely had the life. But giving it up was no form of payment. Buddha had everything, and though he had everything, he still didn't have what he sought. He knew everywhere enlightenment wasn't. And so he know where it was. Beyond things. He had the life and the life was empty. He traded hollow trash for the universe's greatest treasure. The act wasn't payment, it was waste disposal. Payment is fine. But why lie about it? If my teacher needs money, that right there evokes my compassion. Even if they don't I want to pay them back. It's human nature to return a favor. These gifts are just a physical shell for the real sentiment. And I think it's beautiful. Because the truth is, you do pass such a spiritual threshold when you give from the heart. But this can't be requested from you. It has to come from you. No one told the Buddha, "give up your wealth and I'll give you enlightenment." That's laughable.

Good idea. Wudangquan is starting a Dao library website if I'm not mistaken, perhaps that's a good start.

Please don't let one person's pollution from ruin it for the rest. Doing so would really give them too much credit. Anyway, there's much bigger things out there to overcome. A pebble on the tracks won't derail a train. That said, there's been plenty of analysis, constructive comments, and added insights so far, I'd don't see why it should stop here. I have read you blog Ken and think it's great. Please keep up the good work and consider sharing more here. Ladies and gentlemen of virtue, check your egos at the door, we have real work to do.

I would also very much appreciate Ken's clarification. In the mean while, here is one line that describes Zhen Xi: 凡息停而真息动，真息生而内炁行 When the common breath stops the real breath ignites, when the real breath begins internal Qi flows. All I'll say is from my experience on the matter, this statement should be interpreted quite literally.

Traditional characters! Arrrggh. Very good link, thank you. Very good. And please any more comments or additions are more than welcome. My translation skills are basically the bare minimum, I just wanted to put my one partially developed skill to use helping in some way since the rest of my studies are still in incubation. Plus, it's good for studies! 6000 breathing cycles. Wow. Well there's certainly a reason I haven't graduated to the Ling Bao Bi Fa yet. Small goals. Man man lai. --- Wudangspirit, thanks for the additional insights, I'd certainly like to hear any more you'd like to share. And in fair exchange, I'll add this quote to what you mentioned about the wuji stage. Begin at the Celestial Root, located in the center of the forehead below the Hair's Well, called Ni Wan; Use your eyes to look at the tip of your nose; Use the mind to visualize the nose looking down at the tip of the tongue; Visualize the tongue looking at the center of the Chest's Hall, called Chiang Kung, the Ordering Palace; Chiang Kung then looks down at the lower center, Ming Men, located between the belly button and the kidneys (3.5" behind the belly button, in the peritoneal cavity); Lastly, Ming Men looks down at Tan Tien (3.5" below Ming Men), the core root and center of gravity; This central tree, from top to bottom, reaches out to the universe along four lines. I'll continue adding to this when I can and would be very happy for others like YMWong and Wudangspirit to keep doing the same.

Surely? So if I wanted to buy your course you'd turn me away? Li Jiong, the problem is, your answers as to why you charge (and to many other things) have been completely inconsistent. First you said it was out of fairness to your students who have already paid. Then you said you needed money. Now you say money is the spiritual "open sesame". So what's the real reason? And what's this "I know your level exactly now...now I know you are not the one i am waiting for"? I guess that's supposed to hurt my feelings but I rather wonder what took you so long, enlightened as you are? Funny thing, for as unenlightened as I am, I knew you weren't for me from your very first post here. Nevertheless, even a pianzi deserves compassion. Honestly, good luck seeking the Da Dao.

Thanks Stigweard. I guess the way I see it, we would first need a plan. Would a 10 year plan be too industrious? And then we'd need a place to develop the plan. My talents don't extend to web design but a simple website and forum would suffice I think. And in the plan we'd have to discuss location, funding, etc, etc. If we can first make it clear how this can be accomplished then we can start enacting it. It may be impossible to get many older, more traditional masters to participate, but if even we can just get some sincere teachers like Lin Ai Wei, Santiago, Mjjbecker and others (already masters in their own right and expectedly more so in 10 years time), together in one place to document, share and compare their cultivation methods, the results could be remarkable. More ideas to come...

Now I understand why you need the money.. that He Shou Wu must have cost a fortune! 开玩笑阿！ I never knew He Shou Wu could grow that old. Great herb though, even the regular ones. Please consider writing the article on Yang Shen, as you claim to have personal experience, the insight would be invaluable.

I may still be very naive to the Dao in this regard, but I don't see external knowledge as a disturbance. ...The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name... Admittedly, external knowledge isn't where the real wonder resides, mystery hides away from names and forms. Nonetheless, the internal and external spring from the same source. The Chinese saying is Tian Ren He Yi (天人合一), "Heaven and Man are One," in the west we said, "As Above, So Below." Should a medical student take no interest in other subjects, I'd say they're too narrow minded. The Huangdi Nei Jing, Yellow Emperor's Internal Classic is the foundational text of classical Chinese medicine. However, the text itself reads more like a Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy. Movements and disharmonies in the heavens on earth and in man are all discussed for they. They share the same patterns, after all, they all stem from the same origin. And the real beauty is, every one of the ten thousand things expresses the same patterns uniquely. They're but different faces and facets of the same mystery. And therein a doctor can learn about engineering and just maybe gain new insight into medicine. So as you say, cross pollination is fundamental to growth and I'll add, evolution. When Daoism first started becoming organized in the Han Dynasty period all people were accepted for but an offering of five bushels of rice. The result was an intense cultivation and healing community and the beginning of Daoist cultivation science. I call it cultivation science because, in this setting, personal cultivation was communal, systematic, and reproducible. Essentially, it was one of the enlightenment periods of Daoist science. But as it ended, as all enlightenment periods do, the community atmosphere dispersed to little pockets here and there and under different cultural climates secrecy came to be prioritized over science. Nothing wrong with that, Yang sleeps underground through the winter to rise again and blossom another year. So I ask, is it summer yet? No maybe not, but is it spring? My sister likes to say, "Sangha (community) is the Dharma of the West." And it seems a fitting complement. For China's collective nature, the practice of Dao must first be a study of individuality. But in the West, especially America, our Dharma, our challenge is community. Yang seeds flourish in the most Yin of soils. Maybe 'western Daoism' can learn this lesson better. Peace, Xiao Song

Please take your time. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. I appreciate the effort. Honestly, I think this community has the potential to really become something should more and more people start the taking time to crystallize their experiences into some well thought out essays. Sources? Fantastic. Just a little bit of scholarship goes a long way for underpinning and supporting personal experience and intuition. For the amount of time some of the members here have put into internal exploration they should be PhDs. And there's also no reason they can't produce scholarship on the same level. Not only are such essays valuable to others but they're also exceedingly beneficial to the writer's own education. Cheers! I look forward to the final product.

I'm interested!

Fantastic advice and I aspire to do a better job myself with it. By the way MJJ, any opinion on training sequence? Zhan zhuang, drilling, then form work? Lately I've taken to zhan zhuang and form in the morning to open everything up, gong and muscle stuff in the afternoon before dinner, and maybe a bit more soft, small frame form work before meditation and bedtime. But I'm still working out the kinks. This summer I stayed up later for drilling at night, which was fun, but too cold now! Still looking forward to your thread on gongfu when you get the time.

Seeing as Wudangquan has neither achieved the Yang Shen nor does he purport to be a lineage teacher, I think you're the one qualified to answer the question Li Jiong. Please, enlighten my ignorance. I've found one of the many passages from the classics on Yang Shen (this one from 《钟吕传道集》) that seems to exacerbate my confusion, I think you could help clarify: "内观以聚阳神，炼神以超内院，上涌以出天门，直超而入圣品。既出既入，而来往无差。或来或往，而远近不错。" If you'd be kind enough, I'll let you translate it so I don't further confuse anyone with my misunderstanding.

Good attitude! I've long held such a dream. Great schools like this have existed before but to my knowledge, never have many traditions gathered under one roof. Imagine, the opportunity for masters to study each other's systems, discuss methods, and collaborate. I know many masters have the ability to simply watch a practice and immediately understand its purpose. Put these men and women together to study how their methods are alike and differ and I imagine you could develop a very refined system of cultivation. You bring up a very good point that many different methods exist because many different minds exist. Certainly there is no one way best for everyone. This is where you could also introduce the traditional medical and psychological systems to help guide who should be practicing which methods when. Different bodies and minds have different needs, these differences too could be investigated and cataloged. I know Ayurvedic and TCM are both used to diagnose constitutional conditions and temporary disease patterns. Using these diagnostic techniques cultivation could be further tailored to suit each individual. Use western material diagnostics to study the course of cultivation and within a generation we could have the start of a new tradition of human spiritual technology. When would you like to start?

Amen. I swear, one could develop a conspiracy theory as to why different traditions bicker so much. Buddhists, Daoists, Hindus, Sufis, among any and all it's hard to find cultivators anywhere who don't believe every path but their own is mistaken. So what's wrong with us? With some real respect, openness, and cooperation between traditions imagine the results, the research that could be accomplished? "Laozi's a Bodhisattva." "No Laozi taught the Buddha." "Jesus didn't have a rainbow body." You know I respect the stories but they are beside the point. Historical or not, we don't know. So men of learning, don't let historical myths separate us from accomplishing something real, now. We don't need fantastic stories anyway, cultivation produces results. Right paths will produce right results in the body and mind. Does your path produce a clear mind and compassionate heart? Does your path improve and expand physical and mental health and abilities? The proof is in the practice. I think one of the greatest achievements in the West is the scientific theory and academic community. Not everyone agrees but research is explained, refuted, and exchanged openly. Could such a community exist between cultivators too? Of different traditions and religions for the good of all humanity? That's not rhetorical, I'm asking, do you think it could be done?

How is your diet?

The first step of Ren Xian Gong (Human Immortal Cultivation) in the Ling Bao Bi Fa is called Pipei Yin Yang. This literally translates to marrying or merging Yin and Yang. The way David (or was it his wife?) described it on their forum a while back, entering the list of immortals, etc, this seems to be where WLP's system of Ling Bao Bi Fa would place David.

I'll clarify, I'm not translating a training manual. I'm translating basic information on the training and levels. You won't find the specific instructions on training anywhere, Chinese or English. The reason is certain experiences must be discovered first through practice. To have a goal to experience a certain phenomenon before hand can compromise the ability to distinguish real from hallucinatory. These are not visualization practices. You train a method and achieve a result. Achieve the correct result and your teacher introduces the next method. Achieve other results and keep practicing or fix your deviation. You will not know the correct result until you achieve it. This is very important. Not because it's a some big secret but rather it's for the student's own good. Aside from that, there is cultivation theory from the Ling Bao Bi Fa and Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji, which I'll hopefully have the chance to translate more of as time goes on. Don't ever believe there's no value in reading the classics first hand. Sure a knowledgeable teacher is great, but they're no substitute for an inquisitive mind.

As far as application goes, I agree completely. Four ounces to push one thousand pounds. But as far as training methods are concerned, if one starts off with a weak body and only practices softness in the end they will have no ability.

I don't agree with a lot of Yang's analysis. But I really respect is scholarship. As far as his Muscle Tendon Changing Classic goes, I wouldn't know. After all you'd need to hire a little boy, little girl, woman, and man to massage and beat you every morning and evening for three years. Muscle-tendon changing isn't so mysterious though. And the Shaolin, Taiji, Bagua, etc iron bodies certainly aren't accomplished through massage, though hitting oneself (or hitting oneself against things) does seem to be common to all methods.

Every form will and every form won't from my experience. It really depends on your state of mind through practicing. Going for a walk and breathing, stretching and breathing, people watching and breathing, anything and breathing will clear emotions. Why? Emotional baggage is stagnant Qi. A repressed emotion or habitual emotion is a little pocket of Qi that doesn't flow properly. This is one of the few real root causes of disease. Breath moves the Qi. As the breath deepens, becomes smoother and more regular, so to does the Qi flow. Notice how your mental state affects your breath and how your breath affect your mental state. 意到气到血到 Qi follows awareness, blood follows Qi. Higher quality breath means more Qi follows your awareness. When an emotion comes up be aware of it but don't feed it. In this case awareness means watching the mind not becoming it. IE, in meditation you remember you forgot to do your homework, so you start thinking about how to do it, how long it will take, etc. That's becoming the mind and feeding the anxiety that produced that thought. Awareness, means the thought comes up - forgot to do homework - you just let it mutter on like background noise. If you were paying close attention to the body and breath when this thought came up, you might have noticed a change. A feeling in the body, a stuffiness to the breath, just pay attention - where the awareness goes, Qi follows - just watching, just observing, nourishing Qi follows, you are healing. Try to do it and the Qi will get stuck where you're trying from. Be patient, just watch, and old emotions will open up and flow away. If you really want a fast study in this attend a Vipassana retreat. No talking. No distractions. 10 hours a day of meditation. You'll learn volumes.