松永道

My goal is stopping the death and rebirth cycle. I am motivated by dissatisfaction.

 

I have a strong physical frame, physically fit aerobically. I have no physical health issues.

 

I have a mental issue, but have a otherwise sound mind. I have recurring hypnagogic hallucinations of being paralyzed and having cold hands reach into my dantein, this is a common occurrence nightly usually. I have not decided if it is a recurring observation or a hallucination, in either case it seems mostly harmless and unavoidable. I am not willing to consider medication for this issue.

 

I have three masters at the moment. I can't discuss this issue more however.

 

This newage hippy spiritual scene is filled mostly with charlatans who literally just make shit up and deem themselves masters to sell books, and courses. Kunlun being an example.

 

If you have any recommendations on any other schools or systems I am willing to listen, if you feel they are valid. I'd like to know their success rates also. For example if lineage promises liberation, how many students have achieved liberation? Are they themselves liberated? Do they have any evidence to support such claims?

Outside of China I can't recommend anyone. Not to say there aren't good teachers elsewhere, but that I haven't met any.

In Neigong cultivation there are two paths that support each other like a double helix. One is Xing (性) and the other is Ming (命). Ming cultivation improves the body, Jing, Yuan Qi, lower dantian and power. Xing cultivation improves the Shen, Hun, consciousness and awareness. Balanced cultivation requires both, if not in the same day, then in alternate phases. A energetically sound body is the best soil for Xing cultivation, and likewise, an emotionally sound mind is the best soil for Ming cultivation.

While any legitimate school of neigong will regard both, they tend to emphasize Ming cultivation. Buddhist cultivation, to the contrary, tends to emphasize Xing cultivation. And so one tends to find good hearted Buddhists who wouldn't, and couldn't, hurt a fly or fend off a cold, and hearty Daoists with explosive temperaments. Now that's a stereotype and there are plenty of exceptions. But there are many stories of interaction between Buddhists and Daoists for these very reasons - Buddhists help a wayward Daoist settle matters of the heart, and Daoists heal the ailing, energetically unfit Buddhist. I have yet to find a story that's reversed.

I earlier suggested a Vipassana retreat because I think it's very effective for settling matters of the heart/mind. One sincere 10 day retreat may be enough to untangle some important knots for you. The best validation of this practice may be the documentary, "Doing Time, Doing Vipassana." It's about using vipassana meditation to reform prisoners. Vipassana has no doubt been a great benefit to my own neigong practice.

Dissatisfaction is a powerful fuel, no doubt, burns strong but is poor quality. It's a fine place to start, your own industrial revolution, but eventually you'll have to clean up the pollution. Better off not basing your energetic economy on a dirty fuel. The sooner you switch to something sustainable, the better off you'll be in the long run.

I haven't seen any other systems validated. Perhaps as time goes on, technology expands, and humans grow more interconnected and more ancient knowledge is made available other systems will be validated. At the moment I'm fine where I am. Thanks.

What do you mean by validated? Validated by a book? By a teacher? By personal experience?

Do you have the foundation of a strong, energetically sound body and mind? Do you have a teacher?

If you don't other opportunities may present themselves, and if you're not inflexible, you'll be able to take advantage of them. Other techniques in Qigong, Taiji, Yoga, and meditation can help you build a foundation which will later prove essential for neidan inner alchemy.

What is your goal? Are you motivated by dissatisfaction or passion?

Even though India doesn't really have any advanced masters in the area's I am specifically looking for, you guys may be right about the culture.

Why have you decided specifically on neigong? What kind of foundation have you cultivated up to this point?

I'm not asking to dissuade you, but there's a lot of confusion about neigong, and if what you're really interested in liberation, there may be other systems that are more accessible.

Another thing they have in common is both schools are not teaching the Dan Dao. That is the way to achieve Dao through neigong.

I don't know about Mo Pai, but Wang Liping will not be teaching anyone his complete system of neigong, at least not publicly and up until this time not privately either. He has, however, taught parts of the system that are very useful.

Dao Zhen,

Thank you. Your posts can really be quite moving.

One question, our practices have many similarities, from which texts do you primarily draw from?

Enjoy Qingming.

When I was in my teens and loved to cut school, I would raise my temperature in one selected spot (where I come from we take the temperature under the armpit rather than in the mouth) -- usually took about ten minutes to "run a high fever" -- just enough to convince my parents and then the doctor that I was sick, and enjoy my freedom for a couple of days. No one taught me the method, I invented it (necessity is the mother of invention, right? ) I would imagine a small but fierce fire burning all around the thermometer, almost melting it... melt it didn't, but jump into the fever range it did -- every time. If I ever practiced perfecting this particular skill, maybe I'd learn how to melt it... but what the ef for?..

I'd like some input.

I've achieved heating in two ways. One way, I built a fire of warm qi the dantian and fanned it with my breath until it consumed my entire body. Like this I could walk on cold ground, stand in cold wind, aware of the cold but not affected by it (my body also remained warm to the touch). The second way, I heated up a cold floor by visualizing my feet as coals. However, I've tried and failed to heat the floor by directly sending warm Qi to my feet - the cold floor just sucks it out.

My question is this: Why do these two phenomenon obey different rules? Why can I directly visualize my feet or the floor as coals and warm it up but I can't directly warm my feet with warm Qi without building a supply line of warmth out of the dantian?

Has anyone else experimented with the differences between mind/visualization approaches and lower dantian sensational approaches?

thanks for all the replies. im not actually interested in practising semen retention, just wanting to understand further how i can heal completely, although i have made considerable progress so far with acupuncture.

Barka,

One of the characteristics of TCM is it includes methods for reducing and tonifying. I don't want to step on your acupunturist's toes here but if you're getting pale after treatments that means you reached a stage where you can either, A. keep reducing until the dampness is completely out of the system. B. Start tonifying. Or C. Continue reducing while simultaneously beginning tonification.

Generally Herbs (and dietary therapy) are most effective for tonifying (it's hard to nourish with a needle). If your acupunturist doesn't know herbs, ask him to consult a colleague, and at the very least you can take some Chinese patent medicines.

I'll add that the nice, reddish complexion is not necessarily healthy. Damp heat is an excessive condition often caused by underlying deficiency. The disease patterns layer like an onion, the more immediate pattern is shaped by, but often obscures the pattern beneath. Peel away the damp heat and you'll encounter the deficiency beneath.

I think it's a bad idea to have sex after qigong in the long run, it does deplete yang Qi that could otherwise be inwardly directed for neigong practice. But, sometimes, it's a better idea to spend a little, unless you're seriously deficient. After all No one likes a miser.

But from personal folly, I will strongly recommend not having sex after neigong. Especially in the first stages. While lower Dantien energy is accumulating but still not anchored, having sex afterwards can put the lot of that Qi in a place you don't want it.

In general I'd say it's best not to get too serious about your cultivation practice, at least neigong practice, until your responsibility can outpace your cravings.

 

Should I be focusing my eyes like this in the meditation? Does it put too much chi at my ajna chakra?

 

I the practices I am familiar with, the answer is no. Putting concentration on any fixed location besides the dan tians for an extended period is time will cause congestion or stagnation. If your meditation does not detail where to concentrate on body sensations I would recommend a relaxed, general awareness. Let the eyes relax.

In many forms of meditation, looking at something doesn't mean with your physical eyes, although some qigong meditations actually do recommend using the eyes in the first stages (ie looking at the lower dantian with eyes closed) until the mind alone can direct the process.

Edit: I'll add that in my opinion, we have enough eyestrain in modern society. Most are very suited for a meditation practice that can empty the eyes and allow the consciousness that generally pours forth to return and reside in its origin. In traditional Chinese theory, they would say closing the leak from the eyes allows Hun (aspect of our consciousness that governs dreaming and imagination among other things) to be stored in the Liver network.

Thanks to Sheng Zhen for the PM.

My computer ended up crashing a while ago, causing me to loose many of my translation sketches.. I took it as a sign to work more on cultivation, less on translation. I've been away from the internet in general, it's been very nice to focus more on less. I probably won't get back to it until after April 5th, Tomb sweeping day. Want to look good for the ancestors after all.

I have all three of Shen Zhigang's books now, 行大道 (Xing Da Dao) being the most important for methods on Yin Xian Fa. The others are treatises on 种吕传道集(Zhonglu Zhuan Dao Ji), 灵宝毕法(Ling Bao Bi Fa), and 太乙金华宗旨 (Tai Yi Jinhua Zong Zhi), covering fundamental theory and Yang Shen gongfu methods. Xing Da Dao outlines the Yin Xian Fa neigong practice and some complementary qigong methods. It's my, perhaps ignorant, perspective that the qigong methods, while good, are not essential to the Yin Xian practice and that other moving and standing qigong and taiji forms would be good enough for building and circulating Qi. Yin Xian Fa is a process for using that Qi.

For anyone interested in practicing, the most basic step of Yin Xian Fa is then calming the mind, and entering stillness. Try to work towards sitting in lotus as posture is important for lower Dan Tian development. It takes patience and persistence to increase the inner rotation of the hips. If you consistently give up because of knee pain, this could actually end up damaging the knees. If you're serious, it's better to sit for a longer period of time, it takes that long for the larger muscles of the leg to relax and unburden the knees. If the pain is too much, we have had plenty of discussions here on other stretches that open the hips.

Many people have discussed what "entering stillness means". Before I thought it meant entering a state without distracting thoughts. Being aware of sounds, thoughts, etc but not being distracted by them. Now I can say that this is considered to be only one level of stillness. Still deeper, meditation adepts enter a space without sound, thought, or any other distraction. Entering stillness is indeed the gate to all wonders.

Let the head gently drain into the body, ears listen to the heart beat. Wei Bo Yang, a Han Dynasty cool Daoist dude, said that people of great virtue (上德), without desires, need only enter stillness and the whole process with unfold itself. People of lesser virtue (下德) need to practice a method to achieve the same process. However, it's better to think of this as a spectrum rather than two type of people. There are a precious few, born of strong body and mind who may achieve the process very quickly, then there are the rest of us, some need a better body to supply enough Jing for the transformation process, others need a better mind/heart, with less desire, delusion, and shadows. For the body you practice Ming Gong (命功) - practices for the Qi, Blood, Jing, Sinews, Bones and Skin; and for the mind you practice Xing Gong (性功) - practices for the Shen (consciousness), Hun (immortal soul), Zhi (will), Ling (spirit), Jing (stillness), Ding (concentration). As most everyone will need practices for both body and mind, though to different degrees, Yin Xian Fa, and any other complete system, necessarily incorporates both, "Xing Ming Shuang Xiu (性命双修)"

I will post some text, translation, and analysis of these first few stages in the future. Honestly I didn't know the interest was there, knowing that it is, I hope to do my part well to help.

Peace,

Song

If you like isometrics, you'll probably like dynamic tension at least as much, if not more.

 

Dynamic tension is movement under tension, kind of like dynamic isometrics. You don't use external resistance, but you build internal resistance instead, but unlike in isometric exercise, you move in that state. From my experience it has tremendous effect. It's like strength training x10 without weights. Intuitively I feel that you can learn how to lift a car without ever touching a weight or a rubber band in your life. It can be done anywhere.

 

There is one warning though -- dynamic tension tends to excite your system a lot, so you need to spend at least the same or double the time deeply relaxing after the exercise.

Good comment.

This method is used in many muscle tendon changing qigong forms and many other forms (including taiji) could be practiced in both a "hard" dynamic tension fashion, and a "soft" qi flow, awareness, relaxation manner. In fact, this underlying rule could be applied to nearly any form of exercise.

However, long term "hard" practice is very yang and will exhaust the interior and cause pockets of stagnation if practiced without uniform flow and tension. Preferably, dry off, and practice a yin method directly afterwards.

The eyes are a yang orifice of qi. In sleep and meditation qi enters deeply and flows through the interior, yin aspect of the body. It can take some time for the energy to resurface to the yang aspect for normal function afterwards. You can stimulate the process in a number of ways. Cupping your palms over the eyes, rotating the eyes, or simply returning flow via conscious sensation of the eyes should be adequate. Just give yourself the adequate time, don't worry or strain.

Over time, as qi becomes more abundant and free flowing the adjustment time will decrease.

I know an old man who can meditate in lotus for hours and literally jump out of the position in a moment.

abortion

Abortion is viewed as killing the baby and it creates really bad karma for the parent, specially the mother who is pregnant. This is because we as taoist know that babies in the stomach already have it's soul and which means some beings who died before have transfered their soul into this new live and getting ready to be born to become a new life. If the mother did an abortion, that means they took away the life again even before the life is born. So the soul of the baby will be wondering in nowhere, which is very painful. Until the next cycle for the soul came which is 180 years (calculated by astronomy in Chinese taoist study). Now the mother must pay off the bad karma she did. The way they mother may pay off is like...for example: cannot have any babies after abortion, or the next baby will be defected, or the mother will have super bad luck and got cheated by man again in the whole life..e tc,. Some even haev nightmares all the time and some see the baby coming back at the mother.

In your tradition, what can the woman do to reconcile her Karma?

What Qigong practice fuses yin and yang in the lower dantien? I know a few claim it, but I want a serious practice. BTW, this site is the best in the known universe.

 

ralis

First you need a real lower dantian. For men, it can take a while to create. It's not about visualization. Practice an internal martial art and meditation (eventually reverse breathing when you have the foundation).

Be patient. This practice is a marathon, not a sprint, don't burn yourself out at the start.

So, along similar lines, if you feel that someone is draining you, wouldn't you have to be letting it happen (even a bit?) for it to happen?

I believe you do have to let it happen on some level.

To paraphrase a Buddhist fable..

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The Buddha went to a town to teach. The Hindu priests in town knew this was bad news.. what if their followers go get liberated by the Buddha? Who will follow them then? How will they make their living? So one of the elder priests decided he would go run Buddha out of town. By this point Buddha was already famous for his intellect so the old priest knew and argument would get him nowhere so he decided to go and harass the Buddha. Shouting and shouting, he wouldn't let the Buddha speak. Finally, the Buddha said, "Please, old man, let me ask you just one question."

"Fine!" The old man finally shouted.

"Old man, if you invited guests to your house and they brought you a gift you didn't want, what would you do?"

"As custom, well, if I had no use for the gift, I would send the gift back with them."

"Old man, this is what I do to you. You wish to give me anger, but I don't want it, I have no use for it, so I send it back with you."

And as fables go a veil lifted from the old man's mind and he understood... studied with the Buddha and became fully-liberated.

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To steal your energy, the thief needs to make a connection. However, unless you're fully liberated, without any emotional baggage of your own, you may be open without knowing it. Any insecurity is an open connection. Does someone know how to 'push your buttons'? They know where your leaks are and may use they, probably without even knowing it.

But this whole dynamic seems to work by suction. A thief needs an empty spot in order to take energy. If fact, it's probably their motivation to steal in the first place. How can you fill their hole without draining yourself? What type of things get full by being sucked on?

Well, you have to forgive the less-than-warm welcome you get here from some of the proponents of the most influential sect of Tao of the Mouth. They don't like to encounter pragmatic taoism, they think taoism is what you believe in, or don't believe in, and they practice taoism by thinking or talking about it. Doing things the taoist way is not taoism for them. Uh-uh. You have to read researchers and scriptures to be a Tao of the Mouth taoist in good standing. The new and improved Tao of the Mouth taoism has rid itself of Hetu, Luoshu, I Ching, bagua, Wuxing, internal and external alchemy, astrology, numerology, divination, talismanic sorcery, herbology, ancestor worship, offerings to the gods, spirit invocations, direct transmissions, and the rest of this "barbaric nonsense." Tao of the Mouth taoists do just fine "believing" in Laozi, and whatever is not covered by the Tao Te Ching plus maybe a scripture or two they favor is to be found in the works of "researchers" (outsiders) of taoism. As soon as you start practicing taoism you're already suspect no matter what you practice. See, their researchers don't practice anything, they only research, and then "believe" or "don't believe" in this and that. So you are supposed to be like them too, and if you're not... Be forewarned!

Wow, that's a pretty elitist statement.

Daoism is to Dao as Christianity is to God.

I know another "Tao of the Mouth," you find it in some Daoguans in China. No cultivation. No substance. But many rituals to make money. Honestly. People who have never heard of the Dao live it better than these priests.

What I see happening in the west resembles Luther's Protestant Reformation. Vitality over experience. This is the wood phase of a new life cycle. Would you see the doctrines, dogmas, and traditions, like water, extinguish the emerging spark? Too soon. Let it grow. Traditions are valuable once sought, not imposed.

 

I also am looking to perhaps check out Zhongnanshan....

 

Pick Zhongnanshan! It's beautiful and right near me. I would really like to help set the place up, farm, and that sort of stuff - though I'm not interested in cutting myself off from civilization yet, I could help be your bridge between worlds.

Well, in terms of energy cultivation, I learned some exercises, meditations, etc.. in my tradition that I have found are not energetically compatible with some other traditions' energetic disciplines. Basically- mixing traditions gave me chi sickness. Also what about theoretical differences? for example, some taoists disagree about yin and yang. I met with a master who believed that Yin was the right side and Yang was the left. I was taught the opposite. I can see how this kind of mixing of cultivation techniques and differing theories could create snags when we share techniques. How would we deal with "my Kung Fu better" type of disagreements? How would we handle these kinds of differing views?

This is why Masters should be able to communicate directly with one another. Seeming confusions like your Yin/Yang example can be surprisingly easily settled between adepts with skill beyond language. It's only confusing for students who haven't yet practiced the meaning out of their forms and words.

Of course, I'm not saying all practices do the same thing. Some really shouldn't be practiced at the same time. But this too should be immediately obvious.

The techniques must be mixed by people who already understand them, not by students taking a little from here and a little from there, haphazardly. Not that some people can't find value doing so, but if we are going to systematically explore and compare these techniques, we need to work with masters of these traditions. Masters unwilling transcend the "my Kung Fu is better" mentality won't be able to participate. This is about research, not hubris, we're looking for cultivators with a genuine interest in research, exploration, and the improvement of humanity and our relation with the universe. If a "master" can't even check his ego, he disqualifies himself.

This is a very deep topic.

The orthodox view is that Hun resides in the Liver, Po resides in the Lungs, Shen resides in the Heart, Jing (or Zhi) resides in the Kidneys, and Yi resides in the Spleen. The Yellow Emperor's Internal Classic states:

随神往来者谓之魂

Sui shen wang lai zhe wei zhi hun

The Hun leaves and returns following Shen

并精而出入者谓之魄

Bing jing er chu ru zhe wei zhi po

The Po exits and enters combined with Jing

Po relates to the seven emotions - anger, joy, worry, sadness, fear, shock, and pensiveness. Hun relates to the three relationships - to above (parents, bosses, ancestors, the divine, etc), to same level (friends and lovers), and to below (children, homeless, etc)

When someone has a lot of power, they are said to have Poli. You can see this in the eyes. Relaxed and concentrated. Many predators, great cats in particular, have tremendous Poli.

Vipassana, a Buddhist meditation practice, refines the Po.

精能生神，神能驭精

Jing neng sheng shen, shen neng yu jing

Jing gives birth to Shen, Shen controls Jing.

To give birth to Shen, the Jing from the Kidneys needs to be transported up to the heart. This is one function of Hun. For Shen to control Jing, it's influence must be transmitted to the Kidneys, this is one function of Po.

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I considered not posting this because I know there's a lot I don't understand. Spiritual physiology is a subject best experienced and studied within your own body. Words are just words and may just distract and confuse. Adhering to dead words is dogma, no matter the author, the real wisdom needs to be resurrected from your experience.

Thanks, I think you're doing some great stuff.

I'm not sure this would be difficult or not, but have you considered posting the original Chinese alongside your translations?

Nope ... but have developed the fine art of balancing on the rim

Hah! I've convinced a few friends to switch over to perching style.

P.S. Folks with very high blood pressure should not squat, squatting raises blood pressure. The vast majority of strokes in south-east Asia occur around 9 a.m. in the morning.. that's pooping time!

Then a feedback and control loop is established with the signal going into the nerve synapse with the neurological response monitored as the feedback and the control signal modified dependent upon the information received from the feedback loop.

What kind of neurological response? Can you give some examples?

This is the first I've heard of Goenka worship. However, I have a handful of friends who've gone and every one of them says it was life changing. Of course, my friends are all smart, open-minded, but never-the-less skeptical folks.

Take what makes sense, leave what doesn't. Simply put though, vipassana is a great system for increasing your awareness of the world as it is. You don't visualize, you don't use mantra, you simply observe sensations. You don't even search for particular sensations. Simply observe your reality as it is.

I also practice neigong and taijiquan and I can say the quality of consciousness I obtained through vipassana meditation has been an immense asset.

On discomfort. Everyone who attends this retreat goes through a lot of pain. Equanimity towards discomfort is one of the most important hurdles. Incidentally, daoist philosophy would relate pain to the Hun, an element of the psyche in daoist psychology. An inability to endure pain creates irritation, frustration, and anger. The ability to endure discomfort is proportional to one's compassion. I can't say why, but I can say from my experience that after my vipassana, 10 days of agony, I realized what it was to experience true, heart-felt compassion for the first time.

It's about bravery, not brainwashing.