松永道

Very interesting about the urinology. I am aware that it's an old folk remedy in northern Europe but this makes me think it may well have been part of every traditional healing arsenal.

Definitely deserves more research. Any of you bums have personal experience in the matter?

...once I clean up my diet a bit...well, we'll see...

It might also mean Westerners only like to talk up the Tao, but only talk, not enter it. Or it might mean we like to talk about our own version of the ways of the world, as in we think our laws are correct.

Good theories but you're giving a bit too much credit to the kind of folks who say such things. Although Daoist, especially in it's religious form, is thoroughly Chinese, anyone with even a modicum of understanding would find no conflict with a 老外 laowai/gringo taking interest. Dao is just natural after all. Every country on earth has nature and exists in nature.

Your average Chinese person knows nothing about Daoism, really. They know some of the terminology but they don't know what it means. People insult what they don't understand. And that's a facet of nature that's not exclusive to China either.

Well, as metaphors can get a bit general, specifically I was referring to one's relationship with a practice. For instance, Kundalini yoga may not be everyone's thing, no need to doggedly insist on continuing if it doesn't vibe with you.

But, yeah... I love my self

Traditional diet, not from speculating pre-historic man's habits, but simply from the most recent few thousand years reads like this:

 

the diet isn't based on pre-historic man, it's based on the roman, greek (modern science/medicine/philosophy), and spartan cultures. i don't find it surprising that chinese medicine is going to back up the traditional chinese diet but nonetheless check out the statistics for americans currently (all of whom advocate breakfast eating)

the basic warrior diet principle is that in these cultures you would often do your hunting and gathering throughout the day and then at night is when you'd feast. the undereating phase does not mean do not eat, you are actually supposed to eat something but it has to be light, like fruits and vegetables (to keep your body out of a catabolic state). then in the overeating phase you have a ~4 hour time period where you consume your main meals (starting with vegetables, then proteins, then fats, carbohydrates aren't recommended).

I think we can all agree the modern American diet is neither traditional nor healthy. Were I to speculate I'd say most American diets look something like this:

Little or no breakfast. Cereal, muffin, pop tarts, toast, coffee, and/or Coke.

Snack.

Something small for lunch. Sandwich and chips, soda, yogurt, fast food, etc.

Snack.

Big fat dinner.

Snack.

You don't need a radical diet that most people couldn't follow anyway to solve the obesity epidemic. Just a modicum of common sense. Eat less but better food. Exercise. It's really that simple. I have a friend who's mother went from morbidly obese to pretty thin just by walking!

The Chinese and Indian diets may well not be ideal. However, diet was one factor that contributed historically to the relative longevity and health of these populations. They have a proven track record right up until the latest invasion of trans-fats, processed foods, and refined sugars. These traditional diets, which are a facet of Indian and Chinese traditional medical systems, are one of the reasons why the two countries have such large populations.

I agree the warrior diet has a certain logic to it, but do you really want to be a guinea pig for another fad diet that no-one has ever lived into old age on? It's fine if you do, life's a grand experiment.

If you're in the market for a good cookbook based on both traditional civilized diets and present day hunter-gatherer diets check out The Nourishing Traditions Cookbook. So far the healthiest people I've ever met pretty much followed this, emphasizing recipes low in simple carbohydrates (white rice, potatoes, flour, etc).

Breakfast is the WORST meal of the day according to the Warrior Diet. If you don't want to buy the book there are about 30 free podcasts where you can get the jist of everything. I highly recommend.

Could you please briefly summarize the logic here?

Here's a quick little thing on what Mayo Clinic has to say about breakfast.

Chinese medicine corroborates these findings. According to the body's qi circulation throughout the day:

Yang qi spikes in the Stomach network from 7am to 9am and in the Spleen network from 9am to 11am. That means getting the food into your body between 7am and 9am so that the Spleen, in charge of digestion and distribution of nutrients, can circulate that nutrition to the body from 9am to 11am. Of course, these systems don't work like an on-off switch, they will do their job at any point throughout the day, but these are the optimal hours. The Heart network then fires up from 11am to 1pm, an ideal time for a quick meditation before a social lunch, and the Small Intestine follows from 1pm to 3pm. Meaning that again, best get food in by 1pm so the Small Intestine can digest from 1-3pm.

 

To me practice is about building a relationship of trust, love, and respect with yourself.

 

Here, here! Just as with romantic relationships, you could find a new fling once the initial infatuation fades or ride through the good and bad with your love the whole life-long. Of course, sometimes it really doesn't work out and it's best to find a new lover.

 

Now, you cant just take salt and cook it alone in a metal pot. you've got to process it by counter balancing the salt against the others of the five elements. So... how tao salt is made is by putting pure eastern sun rising sea salt (this is wood element so cannot be from any mountain range - even himalaya. it must be from the sea) into bamboo (wood element), then you make an earth element lid of clay, and cook over a fire - fire element in a big metal vat.

 

Cool. Interesting information.

Quick clarification though, you mistyped wood instead of water there.

 

One thought though. Do we get to choose our path? The more I experience life, the more I think not.

 

It seems we don't get to choose our starting place but in a sense we choose our path.

Were Enlightenment a small town on the Oregon Coast, a Seattle native would need but take a short road south to get there. A New Yorker would face a more arduous journey west. An Argentinian would embark on a real odyssey north. And a Chinese would have to cross the whole of the Pacific!

Maybe the journey is too far for some but should they make it just part of the way, their children will be born closer.

Of course, no-one has to go to Enlightenment.

Absurd.

I suppose.

Fact is stranger than fantasy.

Good luck.

And sincerely, check out the Vipassana. It's pretty much everything you're asking for.

Traditional diet, not from speculating pre-historic man's habits, but simply from the most recent few thousand years reads like this:

China:

早饭吃好，午饭吃包，晚饭吃小。

Eat a good breakfast,

a large lunch,

and a small dinner.

India:

Eat breakfast alone,

have lunch with a friend,

give your dinner to your enemy.

Pretty much the same.

Many modern western nutritionists also suggest to get your protein in the morning and skimp on dinner. Why? Simple, you have all day to work it off. Traditional wisdom also suggests talking a walk after every meal. Although our digestive system has it's own smooth muscles to move food matter, additional movement and gravity helps facilitate the process. Get your protein in the morning and you'll have all day to work with that hunk of slowly digesting. Take down some good roughage at dinner and your digestive track will be nearly clean by sleepy time. Contrary to popular opinion, food does not metabolize as well when we sleep or even lay down. The although I like the siesta culture, it's an artifact of societal malnutrition. When we eat blood moves to the digestive track. Best we aid the circulation of nutrients to the body by taking a walk, rather than slowing it further by taking a nap. Unless of course you're looking to put on fat, in which case eat a big meal and sleep it off.

If you really want to cut fat, don't eat dinner and/or exercise in the morning. Exercising before breakfast after a long night-time fast will not only give you a monster appetite for some protein in the morning but it will cut fat like no-one's business. Plus you'll feel good the whole day.

P.S. I'd be really careful about that no salt stuff.

 

You will find that almost all Great Gurus/Teachers came from very poor backgrounds. Not little rich kids who were born with a golden spoon in their mouth.

 

Really?

Buddha was the crown prince of one of the richest kingdoms on earth at the time. He was in want of nothing material. He had everything and as such he knew everywhere enlightenment wasn't.

Unless you choose the life of a vagrant saint, cultivation requires enough money to give you the freedom and time to practice.

But on the subject of free practices, there are plenty available. I'm certain they contain the same seeds of enlightenment. However, still not so many people pay attention. It's a facet of our psychology, don't ask me why, but most people only value what they have to pay for. The internet is loaded with free practices from good teachers, but so many people think free = rubbish.

As whatever you're practicing now doesn't exactly seem to be flourishing into your pleasant disposition, may I suggest a practice, absolutely free, an expressway to liberation, developed by the Buddha himself? Check out Vipassana. S.N. Goenka seems about as saintly as modern men come.

Amazing isn't it? How there seems to be a path out there to suit just about anyone. Fees for the folks who need a financial commitment to solidify their will and free for those who have the time to commit. Should you expect every teacher to approach the Dao from one angle, how fragile that way would be. Today's news warns what happens when too many people tread one spiritual path.

 

All this crap about taoist masters wanting to help mankind is total B.S, save but a few. You people like to quote so often that this is from God/Buddah. You really think God want to charge money for this knowledge. From what i have seen these so called enlightened masters have turned out to be the most selfish materailistic people i have ever encountered in my life.

 

Sorry dude,but your lame excuses & hard luck stories dont cut it here.

Cut it where? In your reality bubble?

You really think God would want to charge money for the fruits and vegetables we eat?

Maybe we're not even seeing the bigger picture. If I had Wang's skill, I would charge a bundle now so that I could start schools and philanthropies. Why limit the scope of your teachings to the relatively few people you can meet in person? Also, people with more money almost always have more influence in society. You might call it trickle-down enlightenomics. Fix the rich and their newfound benevolence will naturally trickle-down to the poor.

Another potential reason: people who can afford to attend are likely to have their life in basic working order. In order to achieve this practice you need willpower and ability to solve problems. If you're not even willing to endure the hardship of getting this money together, how will you possibly endure the hardship of the practice? Now according to Sean D, David lets some people attend without paying, if this is true, I'm certain that they have proved their dedication in other ways.

A third reason: greed. As far as I can tell he's worked harder for his skill than any rich business man has worked. So, why can't he be wealthy? Because it's a spiritual practice? What does that even mean? As far as I can tell it's a practice that develops the body and mind. It's a way of power. A lot of people charge for these.

Now like I said, I don't agree, but as I'm not enlightened, I can't pretend to know the mind of someone who might be. And here, if you really want to be honest with yourself, you've got to question if your idealized version of what spirituality is really meshes with the reality.

Oh the excuses people come out with. The fact is if he was genuinly concerned about helping fellow man (like he claims) he wouldnt be charging ok. Look i can understand charging maybe a little,But these prices are ridiculous no matter what anybody says.

How do you propose he gets to Denmark? Do the airlines charge spiritual masters for airline seats? Where should he stay? Where should he teach? Are hotel rooms and conference centers free for spiritual masters? Though he may only need a little food, how shall he feed his family? Who feeds the family of a spiritual master? How should he send his son to college? Do they make special concessions for the children of spiritual masters?

And who's to say he's not using this money to help those who have none?

My teacher works as a Doctor, he charges some patients quite a bit of money, other patients he treats for free. Why can he afford to treat some people for free? Because he charges a lot to those who can more than afford it.

Traditionally students in China gave spent an average of three years proving their dedication before they actually learned something. You have to give something of value to get something of value. The offering has always been symbolic, emotional, and physical.

I'm not condoning this behavior, I wouldn't pay it, but I also don't claim to understand the reason behind the behavior. It could be greed. Or it could be something else entirely.

Found something that, on the surface, seems it would be pretty cool to have. But, I am a skeptic, and would love to hear the opinions from others about this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tao-De-Jing-Bamboo-Scr...p3286.m20.l1116

These are sold in plenty of tourist markets. This particular one, since it's not complete, could be bought over here for about $6 if you're a good bargainer. A complete one with all 81 verses would be worth more than $20 in the markets and more in bookstores. This one appears to go up to 15 verses, maybe the pic got cut off, but looking at the size of the thing certainly not more than ~20.

Not a scam but also nothing special.

Whoa, slow down guys... there is the physical tinnusitis and then there are "inner sounds". Don't confuse the two and don't confuse the level which chinese medicine is operating at as well. "Inner sounds", continous or not, are part of the path.

Good comment.

There are of course sounds produced by cultivation, however, just because they happen as a result of cultivation doesn't mean they have nothing to do with Chinese medicine. Of course, they very likely do not fit into a common disease pattern. Nevertheless, in most cases certain dynamics are the same. Surplus fire/qi/yang relative to water/blood/yin can cause ringing ears for example. In other cases, for the stranger sounds, the dynamics may be completely different.

For the most part, Chinese medicine deals with the next densest level of Qi, right after the physical level. That's because this level has the most to do with immune system, metabolic function, etc. 2nd chakra/lower dan tian stuff. You could be full on psychic and still have problems here. In fact, many people who rush to "high level" stuff too early do develop problems here. Now if their system is good, these problems will get balanced out over time. However in the pick-and-choose culture of modern cultivation, who knows?

Overall, I think a basic understanding of medicine and disharmony patterns can particularly benefit cultivators, especially folks who might be inclined to think everything is a good sign. On the other hand, in the course of cultivation, old disease patterns may come out (producing fever, soar throat, aches, etc) and these are in fact good signs because they signify Zhen (good) Qi overcoming Xie (disease) Qi (often called "the healing crisis"). After all, symptoms are, for the most part, the body's reaction to illness, not the illness itself.

Great post. I love getting the inside scoop from chinese medicine...I know there are other threads on this, but where did you learn how to diagnose with it like that? I'm interested in learning that!

This diagnosis is nothing special. It's just out of a very large book of symptoms. You first look up a symptom, there is a description of the most common disharmonies that may produce that symptom. Additionally, each disharmony may produce a slightly different version of that symptom (high vs low pitch ringing for instance) as well as other symptoms that tend to occur for a given disharmony. Also it describes the movement of Qi of how a disharmony becomes said symptom.

Of course it's still better to get a diagnosis is in person. Books like this may give a good description of a stereotypical disharmony but of course very few people completely fit a stereotype. However, as long as you're using it to just get a general sense of what's going on as opposed to creating a treatment plan, no worries.

I use a book is called 中医症状鉴别诊断学 (Zhongyi Zhengzhuang Jianbie Zhenduan Xue), I'm sure there are english versions but they may not go into quite as much depth.

I keep getting a very high frequency tone in my ears it sounds as if it's around 13 kHZ. It's currently not a problem although slightly annoying as it can last for days at a time. Anybody got any ideas as to what's causing it? I did get this a lot when I was a child.

In Chinese medicine ringing in the ears generally indicates an abundance of yang relative to yin. Were I to guess the imbalance in your case more specifically, I would say liver fire (because it generally has fast onset and high pitch).

Tell me:

Has your throat been dry or have you had a bitter taste in your mouth upon waking?

Red face and/or eyes?

Very yellow urine?

Very dry bowel movements?

Yellow coating on your tongue?

or

Fast pulse (or faster than your normal)?

(If this sounds right, then we can discuss what to do about it)

As for the low pitch joeblast, for curiosity's sake, do you tend to experience some of these symptoms:

Light headedness or dizziness?

Sore/painful lower-back and/or knees?

Insomnia?

Night sweats?

Nocturnal emission?

Dry mouth?

or

Hot sensations in your palms, soles, and chest?

These are symptoms of Kidney Yin Deficiency, which tends to be accompanied by low pitch ringing.

No-one should have long-term ringing in the ears. Kundalini and many other qigong practices will create a temporary surplus of fire/yang/qi that can cause ringing in the ears. However, under correct conditions (proper diet, rest, etc), Yang with give birth to Yin, your body will balance itself out, and your whole Taiji will be bigger for it (more yin and more yang). Under improper conditions, excessive Yang will burn off Yin and you will first get hot and dry.

Yang is the fire, Yin is the fuel.

Yang is fast, Yin is slow.

If you ask me, the reason the fast path (the mind path) usually fails has nothing to do with speed. Rather, it's a problem of insufficient fuel. To break orbit a rocket needs speed and fuel. This is the Taoist thought on the matter. Use your Qi to acquire Jing. With enough Jing, your spiritual rocket can break orbit.

I'm temporarily hooked on these Darren Brown videos. Amazing stuff. In addition to verbal suggestion he does a lot of touching and hand gestures that are obviously very similar to qigong. To anyone trained in the stuff - what does the hypnotist feel when doing a physical induction technique?

I'd like to get a better sense of how much of qigong is hypnosis and how much of hypnosis is qigong. It's amazing after reading through the comments on youtube (ie getting familiar with the lowest common denominator) that hypnotism is such an accepted phenomenon. People are so quick to shout "placebo" or "hypnosis" as if these are well understood scientific facts, while indeed, western science doesn't really understand either one. Taomeow put it well, we know the what and how, but what about the why?

Is hypnosis just qigong with a different motive?

Any area of study will benefit studies in Chinese Medicine. TCM is the study of natural patterns, naturally you'll find these any where from economics to astrophysics. Of course a degree in Exercise Physiology, Applied Kinesiology, or the medical sciences are seemingly more applicable.

At its most essential, TCM is the study of man's relationship with nature and the cosmos. Natural phenomenon, movements of the macrocosm, serve not only as metaphors but as expressions of what happens within our bodies, movements of the microcosm.

As above, so below.

Where I to do it all again, I would have taken more earth science classes (as it was I studied medical sciences and theatre). But, in all earnest, just follow your interest. Every subject relates.

You'd have to read the articles, but they implied that the hypermobility and low level connective tissue damage (which doesn't really hurt so would be hard to diagnose) are from some of the actual poses, not because of user error. I like the AIS stuff and I try to use some of it during the day but I'm looking for, like, something to do on my own for an hour once a week and then maybe 10-15 min a day. I'll just go through my list of static and dynamic stretches.

Are these articles online by chance?

Also, anyone have an opinion on Z-health vs Sonnon's stuff? I'm thinking about gifts for fit but stiff family members.

On Self-Knowledge

Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights.

But your ears thirst for the sound of your heart's knowledge.

You would know in words that which you have always known in thought.

You would touch with your fingers the naked body of your dreams.

And it is well you should.

The hidden well-spring of your soul must needs rise and run murmuring to the sea;

And the treasure of your infinite depths would be revealed to your eyes.

But let there be no scales to weigh your unknown treasure;

And seek not the depths of your knowledge with staff or sounding line.

For self is a sea boundless and measureless.

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."

Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have met the soul walking upon my path."

For the soul walks upon all paths.

The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.

The soul unfolds itself like a lotus of countless petals.

Happy wayfaring Dao Zhen maybe we'll yet meet among mountain peaks.

I have his books on Embryonic Breathing and Small Circulation. But unfortunately after experiencing more in meditation, I can't recommend them. I don't think that he understands the subjects well enough to be able to write authoritatively on them. It seems like most of it comes from book knowledge rather than real experience. But he is a very intelligent man with an analytic mind, not to mention a great Gongfu master.

Agreed.

His books do come with a real gem though: original Chinese text. He provides characters, names, and text selections in the original Chinese and that's hard to come by in a translation. Class A scholarship.

However, his translation is theoretical. He hasn't achieved the practice.

Also, a bit of gongfu gossip, I've met a number of taiji players who have pushed hands with Yang. Their impression was that his chin-na is fantastic but that they didn't sense a high level of internal cultivation from him. Of course, I didn't sense that in them either! Haha. So it goes. However, I've heard only amazing things about Shou-yu Liang. But that's another topic..

 

3. Wang Liping was going through very rigorous training from the beginning with no intermediate steps. But how does him learning meditation that happens to use Full Lotus, demonstrate that the posture is the key to his training? I've never heard of him or any of his students stating that it is a key element in cultivation.

 

Full-lotus is an exercise. Physical as well as mental. Exercises in different positions bring different results. In the case of full-lotus, physiologically speaking blood flow to the legs and brain are reduced (assuming you also use the chin lock) resulting in increased circulation to the internal organs.

Blood circulation is qi circulation. Stiff spots, tight spots, blind spots are all areas of reduced circulation. The body is the mind and the mind is the body. Full mental/emotional liberation will bring full body flow. Full body flow will bring mental/emotional liberation. Why not work from both angles? Full-lotus is the way to do just that.

If you have a physical disability that prevents full-lotus, then by all means, don't despair. However, stiffness and laziness are no excuses. Enlightenment is worth working for.

P.S. I can tell you for a fact that Full-lotus is a foundational requirement for the Longmen Pai (Wang Liping's) system.

Physiosymbolically speaking, full lotus bridges heaven and earth.

I do not believe it is necessary for enlightenment. However, according to most Daoist schools of thought, it is necessary for achieving the Neidan. Is Neidan necessary for enlightenment? Again, I doubt it. In fact, for some it could even be a hindrance.

What does seem certain is that full-lotus opens up the possibility for deeper energetic development, for an enlightenment of the body so to speak. Personally, I have experienced many low level benefits since beginning to really sit in full-lotus: naturally sleep less at night, very high energy level, faster and more complete digestion, to name a few. And personally, I like the idea of requiring less physically as well as mentally, not to mention exploring our human potential. On top of that, it's very stable and more comfortable than any other position once you open up to it.

I view like body like an intricate sand mandala. Beautiful, and though temporary, worth the effort. A real exercise in enlightenment, creating, and letting go.

In my opinion it's worth putting up with the bitter gongfu needed to achieve the position. Plus you will develop a strong will in the process.

So I can't see calling him a con man. He backs it up. If I had the cash, I'd definitely train with him. Although several people have expressed concerns that I'd pick up his "craziness", because he is a little...well, not sure what you'd call it. Intense? Zany? Unbalanced?

I think Clyman has some internal power----But he is very unbalanced and arrogant which I think comes from the way he trains and unless you want to be the same way I would not train with him.

My sentiments exactly. He says it himself in the emotional liposuction video on Youtube. His system involves no higher chakras/dan tians, just lower dan tian/2nd chakra all the way.

Little wonder the man is an outright egomaniac.