松永道

Unfortunately there were 20+ casualties as far north as Xi'an, my city. The earth rocked quite a bit up here, buildings cracked, but nothing came crashing down. The people who died, died of fright, height, or both. Some elderly from shock. Some workers fell. Others on a high floor jumped out the window.

...

 

I have extensive experience in energy and movement systems (including nei gong/qi gong, Zen meditation, kundalini meditation, taijiquan, baguazhang, xingyiquan, various forms of Yoga, etc. After pondering the differences and similarities in movement among all of them, I have concluded that this one (Seamm Jasani) may be the original "root" system, from which the others derived various fragments over time. It seems to me that those other adopters then modified their fragments of this material for their own special purposes and created the various better-known systems. It's all a bit mysterious, but I can't argue with results.

 

Even if Seamm Jasani is a real system and not simply invented by the author and only expert in the western world, this is still a silly conclusion. Tibet has always been the backwater boarder between India and China. Thats not to say there haven't been wonderful cultivators in Tibet but that Tibet's cultivation systems owe greatly to China and India and not the other way around.

Besides, shamanic dancing was the origin of it all. And as far as I know that's an activity that stretches back into history as long as homosapien.

 

"Gamerute needs a copy of your PhD faxed over and he's really pissed."

 

That was the sunshine of my morning!

I haven't made up my mind on this whole thing... should it become convenient perhaps I'll pursue Chinese sources to see what people have to say over here about Master Wang's Italian Tudi.

...he has to continue using translators to communicate with his own masters.

To interact with masters you don't need to be fluent. But to really learn you do. Not to mention you absolutely can't work as a competent anthropologist without knowing the language!

Wow.

That's inexcusable.

Thanks for the investigative reporting Gamuret.

He still uses a translator.

Seriously??

Of course they didnt know in sifu's house about the special "charge" of Verdesi. Otherwise, they wouldn't throw him out of the house. They are not crazy, you know.

If this is indeed true then accorded to his own belief system he's piling on more karma to overcome.

I'm not justifying David here but charging a "finder's fee" is a pretty standard business practice. What would be unethical is if he didn't tell his masters that he was charging these people to meet them. If his masters were ok with it, I don't see the problem, not in business terms anyway.

The argument that he didn't work for it is absurd. There are many ways to make money, not all of them involve getting a 9 to 5 job. He learned Chinese, built these connections, and presumably practices many hours of qigong a day (which is harder than a majority of jobs out there). So, he's selling his experience just like anyone else. That's the way our economy works for better or worse

And now on a more whimsical note, the character Jing (精) or essence is composed of Mi (米) rice and Qing (青) green. The traditional character for Qi (气) is air or steam over Mi (米) rice. In neidan (内丹) practice you transform Jing (精) to Qi (气), then Qi (气) to Shen (神). In David's practice, you'll be eating rice (米) for a while after transforming your hard earned greenbacks (青) into Qi. So same thing right!

As I understand it, there are only a handful of people who claim to have learned from Wang Liping. He is apparently very private, and few Daoists even in China seem to know about him. And of course David Verdesi claims to be a student of his.

 

My questions are aimed at everyone who is not a student of David Verdesi. I've read a lot about who Wang Liping is, from the book and from David Verdesi's students, but from no one else.

 

Has anyone seen a photo of Wang Liping? Has anyone heard of him being recognized in an official sense in China? Are there any articles about him anywhere? Has anyone on here ever met him? And does anyone know (not from the book and hearsay) what Wang Liping teaches?

I know that Liping teaches a pretty large seminar every summer, this last summer was down in Hainan. He teaches a lot of things but I suppose you could say the main thing he teaches is neidan cultivation from the Longmen Pai lineage.

No idea if he's officially recognized, however he is held in high regard by many Chinese cultivators. There are of course higher level folks out there, hidden away, but Wang Liping has chosen to make himself accessible, relatively speaking. From my understanding he lives pretty simply. You can find a picture on the internet, he looks like a normal guy.

By the way, I'm not one of David's students and never plan to pay for study with him. There are other routes. Though paying for it perhaps requires less luck.

Sean,

You have nothing to gain from posting on your teacher David and Wang Liping. You have your proof. So who do you need to prove it to, right?

I study Longmen Pai neigong (along with Chinese medicine and Taijiquan) here in China with one of Master Wang's students. I haven't met the man himself, but from his students' actions and words I believe he is a quality cultivator with real ability. I hope to meet him someday. Indeed it will come down to yuanfen (缘分), or affinity as you say. In the mean time, I enjoy hearing about your experiences, it helps me develop a larger picture for my study.

Be well.

I would categorize knowledge like this:

1. What you've received second hand. Knowledge you've heard, read, etc

2. What you've thought about. Knowledge you've incorporated into a logical framework for understanding. The type you can "say in your own words", critically analyze, dissect, and synthesize.

3. What you've experienced. Knowledge you know personally through first hand experience.

Even the knowledge of our world's wisdom traditions (not just Taoism and Buddhism but also Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, and countless other smaller traditions), even this great knowledge is empty words. At this, the first level, meaning doesn't even come into play. It's just following, regurgitating. Brainless. Don't mistakenly believe Christianity and Islam own exclusive rights to blind fundamentalist idiocy.

Gongfu or Doufu? Just watched it. And unlike chou doufu (smelly tofu) which stinks from far away but tastes great, this movie stnks if you try to ingest it. Some cool qigong special effects but overall a real stinker.

 

People who see me sitting in full-lotus, with my adam's apple pulsating, a big grin on my face. Well their reaction depends on their own energy and how it interacts with mine! Also which brain they are using at the moment! haha.

 

Hey what's your idea on the pulsating adam's apple?

I've taken your advice on making full-lotus a habitual activity (my teacher seconded your idea). However, I do not sit in lotus for upwards of an hour after eating, I feel the impeded blood flow may not be a good thing for distributing nourishment. No "O's at a D" yet but the bliss energy is building.

Anyone have any good books that explain reverse breathing and how it effects the energy and output of power?

 

I have PAVELS books already just wanting something from a Daoist view of health and longevity!!

 

regards

WYG

Yang Jwing-Ming's "Embryonic Breathing" is pretty great. I can't speak of the man's cultivation practice, he certainly differs from the Dragon Gate party line on some issues. However, he's a genuine scholar and has dug up a number of texts on the subject of normal and reverse abdominal breathing. Best of all he includes the original Chinese, his translation, and then his interpretation. The original Chinese characters is the real gem, a hard find in English books.

I'm not sure he discusses the output of power as such. But if you practice, you will realize the direct connection between sitting reverse-breathing practice and martial power. It's obvious why this practice is the foundation of internal martial arts.

"吸气过脐下，呼气不出心"

 

'What Is Enlightenment' is Andrew Cohen's publication. they are not a collective. and, to be honest, i don't really get the relationship between those two guys. Andrew IS a bit of a jerk and not nearly as clear, genuine, or intelligent as Ken, by my estimation. however, Andrew Cohen's character flaws are quite common among high-level teachers, so i can't just assume he's not what he claims.

 

but i'm left wondering if you've actually looked into ken's work, as your criticism seems incredibly general and vague. he IS a bit arrogant in his confidence in his ideas, and he admits that himself. but his confidence is in the ideas, not his own greatness. what he did what study all the major traditions (as well as some obscure ones) East and West, and created a model that's inclusive of all of their truths in addition to psychology, sociology, science, politics, the whole bag. he's confident that he's done more homework than others, and i think that confidence is fairly warranted. tibetan monks spend half their day engaged in debate as a means of mental fitness. intellect isn't inherently a problem. in fact, i'd say it's far more likely for the unrefined intellect to be a problem.

 

Admittedly I've got limited access. Aside from WIE, what I've found on the internet, and what I read of his before I moved to China, I haven't read much. And I haven't had the chance to read a single book of his in it's entirety. I'm open though. Like I said, my impression is he is a real smart guy. And perhaps I've unfairly lumped him with Andrew Cohen & Co. If you can recommend anything that's strait Wilber please don't hesitate.

Nothing at all wrong with a great intellect.. as long as you're in control of it. A strong and focused mind that can be turned on and off at will is an aim of my spiritual practice.

Ken Wilber is very intelligent. And I mean that in the worst possible way. Har har. Remember the sage is simple. That said, I respect the man as an philosopher and academic. But these are aspects of a developed 5th and 6th chakra; enlightenment blossoms from the 7th.

Weaving evolution and spirituality into an integrated philosophy is a great idea. Evolution is a natural pattern. As above, so below. However, he, Andrew Cohen, Peter Ragnar, and that whole cadre of enlightenment entrepreneurs just... well... don't seem entirely suited to answer "What is Enlightenment?" (the name of their publication). Though they are all very clever.

If you have proof, you have nothing to prove.

If there is an absolute reality, we, limited things, can't know it. So we have subjective reality, formed by personal experience, ordered by logic. Necessarily everyone's a little different. Some people are very different. The difference is in experience.

Skepticism is honest.

Belief cheats the believer.

In my opinion belief doesn't need to enter the equation. Experience verifies. Until then be an open-minded skeptic. It's important to make hypotheses about the world but don't deceive yourself. If you don't know, you don't know. There's nothing more dangerous and insane than a believer without proof.

That goes for deniers too. Dogma doesn't spare the skeptics. You can't prove non-existence. Any intelligent person knows science is a theory. As St. Augustine said, "Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary to what we know about nature."

Don't have faith in a fantasy, remain open-minded to a possibility.

Darin,

No worries. You're on your way to where you should be going. Failure is the mother of success.

So what went wrong? I don't know. I don't know you. I'll give my impression though. You've studied from a book and known the course of things from the get go. From my humble and limited experience this is a dangerous starting place. If you know what's coming an eager mind can manufacture the phenomenon. This is where having a teacher is priceless, you don't know the path, you discover it, and your teacher guides you along. I don't know if this is your situation, maybe you do, ask yourself honestly: could these achievements have been in your mind?

In any case, you must have developed incredible will, a quiet mind, an one-pointed concentration. You can't be far off.

Back on the horse then!

Cool, I hadnt noticed that there before. Thanks!

 

huangshan=huashan???

Huangshan and Huashan are two different mountains.

黄山 = Yellow Mountain

华山 = Flower Mountain

My way wasn't fast, but I was unable to do half lotus when I started meditating. I simply sat cross legged for increasing amounts of time. Then as soon as I could half lotus I cut that time in half and sat in half lotus. Then as my time increased in half lotus, my hips opened enough to get into full lotus.

For me the whole process took about a year of daily (1-2x) meditation. Meditating though the pain is an important part of the process. But you need to understand the difference between karmic pain and body wrecking pain. If you are relaxed and the pain starts up, that's karmic pain. If you are breaking your knee to try and wedge yourself into full lotus, that's body wrecking pain. Sit cross-legged and half lotus with proper posture for at least an hour to burn through enough karmic pain to get into lotus.

There is something about the way the lower back relates to the lower abdominals, illiosoas and flexors here w/ the 2-3" lift/support during seated meditation. Without it (sit bones flat on the floor) the core is much more "engaged" with the spinal alignment, which can be a good thing to practice for durations because it requires a conscious recognition of the engagement / relaxation of the dantien w/ each breath.

 

These small details seem very significant because in these very SMALL spaces of 2-3" profound biomechanical alignments can occur which can significantly aid the easy in which the body changes fro one state to another. Also can aid those spiritually minded people along their path.

I've always done my lotus meditation on a flat but cushioned surface. It is more difficult than on a 2-3" cushion, but I always assumed this is part of the process to obtain correct posture. It seems as my meditation position gongfu improves I can sit lower without discomfort. However, my meditation to this point has been focused on awareness, burning stagnant qi/karma, cessation of discriminating thoughts, and building the lower dantian, not so much on trance-states, OBE or other more spiritually engaged activities.

Perhaps a 2-3" cushion would be helpful for going deeper. Or maybe sitting flat will ultimately open the body more. I don't know. Perhaps regulating an engaged core is one of the peculiarities of Daoist meditative gongfu with it's great emphasis on building a strong lower dantian.

But I'll give sitting 2-3" up a shot next time, maybe there's something to it.

 

I have been cultivating eating only 1 meal a day, at noon, regardless of my tasks daily. I get up at 4 to begin morning practices. Full lotus indeed burns karma, and when that burning is directed to specific afflictions, like hunger, lol, amazing things happen. Yet it would do so naturally.

 

Now, I can't have an extra meal or my stomach would be very uncomfortable. This began before I decided to cultivate one meal a day. That was also a catalyst for me to do so.

 

I think it's important to stress when your cultivation reaches this point. To drastically reduce how much you eat before you're ready will just make you thin, weak, and disturb your mind. I made this mistake before I was ready and though it gave me quick progress in some aspects it may have done more harm in the long run. First establish your Jing. Then transform Jing to Qi. That means achieving good shape and proper nutrition. After you do so your body will let you know when the time is right.

What I've done is listen to the body's appetite, not the mouth. The mouth eats for pleasure, stimulation, addiction, but the body eats for nutrition. Before and when you're eating feel the body and you wont eat too much, too little, or improperly. The body knows just what it needs.

satyagraha, how long under Max's system did it take for your skull to transform? In Buddhist, Daoist, Zen practice this is pretty high level. That is, when the skull transforms the yang spirit can leave the body. This is not your average OBE (yin spirit travel) but rather a form a spirit travel that you can use to manifest a real physical projection. I'm told the process is very painful and the result of many years of dedicated practice. It happens after the kundalini rises up and basically pushes out the top of our head. If this is indeed the same transformation I'm very interested to hear more.

BTW, my friend, don't take that "was" of mine as excluding of the future! NCNM sounds amazing and will certainly be on the agenda once I get my prerequisites. Were you a student? I remembering the combined naturopathy/CCM program sounding really cool.

I was a student. I actually started in Naturopathy and planned to dual degree. When I was there dual degree students first completed two years in the ND program then studied CCM and ND concurrently. All this in 5 or 6 years. The CCM program there stresses personal cultivation (taijiquan, qigong, deep study of the classics). Personal cultivation requires hours a day. If you dual degree you don't have those hours, you're damn busy! In other words no time for personal practice.

Now the whole reason I wound up there in the first place was because I too needed to navigate some pretty dark waters. I had never been a happy person, and in fact believed happiness was antithetical to progress. I studied western medicine and was particularly familiar with one study that concluded, in simple terms, that some people were just naturally happy or sad based on their natural serotonin levels. Unhappy people were the achievers, they needed to accomplish something to get their fix. Whereas happy people were just, generally happy. Those simpletons! I began to identify with my 'natural' unhappiness and cynicism so deeply that I wound up with full blown depression and a variety of fatigue and autoimmune problems. I had all but snuffed out my own hopeful spirit, convinced small achievements no longer mattered because pollution, war, greed, global warming, would erase everything in the end. So what even mattered? I'm not sure many people follow their existential crisis as far as I did. It sounds silly to me now, reflecting back, because the emotions have all flowed out of it, but for a time I couldn't even talk about about that period in my life without crying.

What changed? I moved in with a guy (now one of my closest friends) who knew qigong. My energetic system was such a wreck, that by the time he agreed to teach me a bit, the first trickles of qi felt like a waterfall. And I blasted off from there, spent the summer qi-stretching everyday and sure enough, though I didn't expect it then, my emotional life changed dramatically. I wrote you about homecoming and reunion because that was my epiphany. That my mind had gone off on some terrible power trip, routinely ignoring, insulting and abusing my body for over a decade. And when I finally stopped to listen, the body consciousness was there, waiting, loving, and forgiving. That dear old friend I abused and misused took me back without a second thought. Wow the torrent of emotions. Gratefulness, gratitude, guilt, relief. My health improved radically. Aches, allergies, chronic infections, and fatigue all gone. I started putting on mass. And you know what, I became one of those naturally happy simpletons! The odd thing is, my logic never changed, I still see all the problems of the world, I still don't know how it will all turn out, but despite it all my hope burns like a bonfire.

By the end of the summer, Western medicine didn't fit anymore. I transfered to NCNM, started as an ND, then transfered to the CCM program because of my interest in personal cultivation. In the 6 month gap time I came to China, met my teacher and the rest is history in the writing.

You know what the real tipping point may have been? It sounds silly but in the final failing month with my then live-in girlfriend, at the height of my depression, we went out for Chinese. And what did my fortune cookie portent?

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked

Dude...

If I believed in making things mandatory, I would make this post mandatory reading for all young seekers. Really I'm moved. People pursue things for all reasons and even the 'wrong' reasons seem en route to the 'right' ones.

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Happy homecoming. Nothing more beautiful than a reunion.

(...now what's this "was" thinking of going to NCNM about? Someone of your rare and profound insight would be treasured there. And it's an incredible community, like a cross between Hogwarts, Wudang, and Woodstock in the best possible ways. I love that place, and though adventure has called me away for who knows how long, I dream of returning, either to teach or study. A new world is being born there...)