Mendelssohn

I have heard this being said before by people involved in yoga. I am hoping you will not mind that I am very skeptical of it. What you are saying should be based in science. All that we do requires energy, but it is human nature to use energy, and in doing that we build up our reserves for more energy. If you do a cardiovascular exercise every day you will eventually have more energy to expel, for example. Really, to have more energy the focus should be in eating healthy, exercise, good sleep, and also reducing anxiety. I have not seen any evidence to show that masturbation is anything special in this regard, that it deprives us of energy. I would like to see evidence if you have any. Also, using just my speculation, I think masturbation would really give you more energy if it was done in a simple, natural way, because otherwise a person will be making a big effort to fight off the urges, which could cause anxiety, when it's really a simple fix and just some thrusts of the hand; not a big deal at all. If you don't do it you will just ejaculate in your sleep sometimes anyway, and it won't be as restful. Every study I have seen, in fact I just read one, say that it's good for the brain and it doesn't have any proven negative side effects, unless it's done excessively, or it's just a product of a mental disorder that already exists. Sorry for the disorganized thoughts. =) -Mendelssohn

Well said, Lotus. I understand exactly what you're saying, although I'm sure I have a long way to go =)

I agree with you, Zhang. It's all about what going on in your mind, not what you do on the outside. If you can do it innocently, and naturally, as you feel like it then it's no problem at all. However, sometimes when an impure mind attempts masturbation it can effect the mind, it can be obsessive and lustful, or if you learned its bad from childhood you can always feel a sense of guilt afterwards. I am like you, I do it innocently, but there are other things I cannot do in that way! Like romantic love, if I let myself then it will completely consume me, like a black cloud is hovering over my head, so to let myself think clearly and continue being spontaneous and free, I have to restrain myself or it will be a weight on my mind. Maybe for some it is the same for masturbation? It's better to just know yourself and know how things effect you and what poisons your mind, rather than just do what everyone else does. Those are my random, unorganized thoughts on the topic =)

I am trying to learn Felix Mendelssohn's Prelude and Fugue in e minor, op. 35 no. 1. (just the fugue half for now). One of my favourite pieces. Very beautiful and intense =). There aren't really any good versions on youtube. I have better one's on CDs, but this one is alright:

Okay. That's understandable. To introduce someone to the main ideas and things like that maybe cultural things are necessary as a gateway into meditation and more serious practice. That makes sense! Different things are necessary to communicate to people in different cultures to get the main ideas across. Thanks a lot. I didn't look at it this way before =)

Well said, Steve. I think we're in agreement. I actually meditate a lot, and put many of Zhuangzi's teachings (along with others) into practice. I understand fully that it's not only intellectual. I certainly don't think it's about appearances and traditions though. I think it goes deeper than that; methods for getting into harmony with nature. I can see how Tai Chi and meditation are methods, but wearing a fancy hat so everyone respects you? I think such things are a little contradictory to the spontaneity of nature and your true self. Not that it really matters whether people wear hats, or what they do on the outside. I could not really care less, but if one focuses on these things they will miss the boat, and I can remember big rants Zhuangzi went on saying this exact same thing =P

Thanks for your input, Miro. I agree to an extent. When I read Zhuangzi I always have to put it into practice rather than just think about it and let it sink into my heart. It's not only thought based, and I understand that. However, when I speak of traditions I am talking about the modern ones that came after Zhuangzi was written, so it certainly wasn't what was trying to be portrayed if it had not yet existed. Also there are many parts in Zhuangzi that speak against tradition, fancy clothing and things like that. You say I dislike tradition, but that's not really the case, it just doesn't do much for me. If I put on some traditional clothes it doesn't change my heart. It is just me trying to make myself appear righteous or exalted above others. Zhuangzi talks directly against such things which is why I asked the question.

I think it was perfectly fine for you to call yourself a skeptic. Saying so is merely the condensed version of the four paragraphs you just typed. That's what skepticism is. We have words like this to make things easier for conversational purposes. Those who nitpick at little words usually miss the point of the conversation. Language isn't perfect. And ironically those who are always looking for subtle errors will have them in their speech as well. It's just the result of practicality =/. It would have been better for the person to ask you to elaborate than to tell you that you were wrong.

Thanks guys. That makes sense. I guess all I'm really interested in is the philosophical aspect. (Although I think Tai Chi is very beautiful, I wouldn't take the time to learn it).

Thank you, I would be interested in reading the discussion on Zhuangzi. Hopefully that happens =).

Thanks a lot Steve, That's the impression I got too, but I had never really heard anyone else comment on that. It won't keep me away =)

Hello everyone, I am from Ontario, Canada, and have not met anyone else who knows about Taoism. I am new to Taoism in general, but not very new to eastern philosophical concepts. I came across Zhuangzi by chance, after already reading Tao Te Ching. I read all three of the books and I have to say it is the best thing (in philosophy) that I ever read. His thoughts were so akin to my own. It was very refreshing, and also very thought provoking. It was meant to make you think and not just tell you the way it is and although at first some things that are written may seem simple, upon further thinking there seems to always be more depth to it. Some passages could be a book of their own but they are kept so beautifully simple. On a side note, science is what I read most of all, and as a result I am skeptical, thus many older writings, in fact most philosophy I have heard seems very outdated and absurd. Zhuangzi seems timeless! (until the human race is wiped out of course =) ). Anyway, I loved Zhuangzi; my favourite philosopher. On the other hand, I don't know much about Toaism, in general. Although from what I've seen of modern Taoism, which is not much, there is a lot of ritual, fancy clothing, tradition. Does focusing on such things not contradict the words of Zhuangzi? I've noticed the same with Buddhism. Therefor I would not be Buddhist or Toaist, because the ritual and tradition have overcome the philosophical foundation that they are based upon! I do not know anyone else who has learned about Taoism but I would like to hear another opinion on this. I love to be contradicted, so feel free to do so! =)

A seeker of truth will not be a catholic for long. A seeker of comfort and stability will, by those very mechanisms, not be able to admit it to themselves, and thus disguise it as truth! If you are seeking truth, why label yourself a catholic? That very labeling will be a barrier! If you were looking at everything fresh, without your upbringing being taken into account subconsciously, how could Christianity be differentiated from all the other religions? Moreover, how could it compare with the mountains of evidence science provides to the contrary, where it has none (to the same degree of scientific scrutiny). It is close to your heart, I understand, but those are primitive impulses. It is reason, in spite of that, that separates us from animals; it is a skill to be learned. I do not condemn someone who is a catholic. Perhaps you enjoy it, but isn't calling yourself a seeker of truth somewhat self-condemning? If that were so you would start afresh, and look upon all things as equal, and see where the evidence and good reason takes you, without letting personal feelings and perceptions, accumulated through upbringing cloud your judgement. -Mendelssohn

Hello everyone, I am from Ontario, Canada, and have not met anyone else who knows about Taoism. I am new to Taoism in general, but not very new to eastern philosophical concepts. I came across Zhuangzi by chance, after already reading Tao Te Ching. I read all three of the books and I have to say it is the best thing (in philosophy) that I ever read. His thoughts were so akin to my own. It was very refreshing, and also very thought provoking. It was meant to make you think and not just tell you the way it is and although at first some things that are written may seem simple, upon further thinking there seems to always be more depth to it. Some passages could be a book of their own but they are kept so beautifully simple. On a side note, science is what I read most of all, and as a result I am skeptical, thus many older writings, in fact most philosophy I have heard seems very outdated and absurd. Zhuangzi seems timeless! (until the human race is wiped out of course =) ). Anyway, I loved Zhuangzi; my favourite philosopher. On the other hand, I don't know much about Toaism, in general. Although from what I've seen of modern Taoism, which is not much, there is a lot of ritual, fancy clothing, tradition. Does focusing on such things not contradict the words of Zhuangzi? I've noticed the same with Buddhism. Therefor I would not be Buddhist or Toaist, because the ritual and tradition have overcome the philosophical foundation that they are based upon! I do not know anyone else who has learned about Taoism but I would like to hear another opinion on this. I love to be contradicted, so feel free to do so! =)