konchog uma

track 17! which is really splendid btw

sure its just not the true dao

@ alwayson: thanks for your point of view. My apologies to quote a crap page. You should post something on wikipedia instead of on taobums

When i practice mahamudra or dzogchen, the closer i get to the natural state and the more of the tension of everyday mind i let go of, the more my energy just jumps up and shakes off blockages, sometimes quite spontaneously. So i personally think there is something to what you are saying, but 2 things: 1, that just comes from my own experience and isnt anything i have seen mentioned anywhere else so who knows... could be anything... and 2, my kundalini is alive and kicking so it is always looking for blockages to shake through, i think that resting in the natural state just enables it. I am not sure what would happen if my kundalini were dormant. ??? i keep meaning to watch that film. Interesting jetsun, but i can't speak to it cause ive never seen the film. I feel a strong pull towards Norbu Rinpoche (just recently joined Dzogchen Community) and think the accessibility is wonderful too. I have had powerful experiences surrounding his writings, and am convinced that he is an awakened master. I've been missing his chod retreat because i am immersed in this Alan Wallace retreat right now, but as a member i have the replay option for a couple months. Its important to feel a personal connection to a teacher tho, i'm not trying to convince you that ChNNR is great, maybe for you he isn't! I want to look into Choknyi Rinpoche... does he write? Do you recommend anything to start checking him out?

Interesting jetsun. Milarepa was introduced to mahamudra and dzogchen both, and couldn't practice them because he had too many karmic blockages. His mind wouldn't settle so he couldn't rest in the natural state. So Marpa taught him inner fire (tummo) and the inner yogas, but it was mostly tummo which cleared him out so he could practice. Tummo is a lineage practice, and to really learn it, one will need to take refuge vows, bodhisattva vows, complete their ngondro, take tantric vows, and then be accepted by their teacher (assuming they have one that can teach the inner yogas) as a student and gain entry to the practice. All that takes years just to get to the door to be able to suplicate the lama for teachings. So a lot of people like to talk about tummo and read books on inner yogas (and i'm one of them so not knocking it, just saying) but not many people really get training in the practice. However, there have been many parallels drawn between kundalini and its effects as it cleanses ones system of blockages and impurities, and the energies utilized in tummo. I quote from the wikipedia page on tummo: Kundalini and tummo Kundalini is etymologically linked to candalī, the Sanskrit term for tummo, or inner fire. The two practices are also related. Miranda Shaw clarifies: Kuṇḍalinī-yoga offered a range of techniques to harness the powerful psycho-physical energy coursing through the body... Most people simply allow the energy to churn in a cauldron of chaotic thoughts and emotions or dissipate the energy in a superficial pursuit of pleasure, but a yogi or yogini consciously accumulates and then directs it for specified purposes. This energy generates warmth as it accumulates and becomes an inner fire or inner heat (candālī) that [potentially] burns away the dross of ignorance and ego-clinging.[4] Kundalini, therefore, is the energy that when accumulated and directed can become tummo. The two are essentially similar in nature but applied in somewhat different ways in the Hindu Kundalini Yoga practice and the Vajrayana Buddhist tummo practices, such as the Six Yogas of Naropa. Numerous non-buddhist tantras of the Shakta and Shaiva traditions (generally termed Hindu by westerners) speak of Kundalini, which is generally described as a coiled energy at the base of the spine,[5][6][7] at the first chakra. The image of celestial partnership is common within the Shiva-Shakti treatment of Kundalini union. As the serpent energy, or "shakti", ascends to the Crown chakra, Shiva, the cosmic consciousness permeates the body-mind of the sadhaka. It is important to remember that the language of directionality encoded within this process is only metaphorical and that the 'higher' awareness states are typically nonlocal, unbounded and uncontained. Whereas tummo is generally described within the context of various Buddhist tantric systems, particularly the 'Mother tantras' (Wylie: ma rgyud), and most widely taught within the Kagyu lineages, although a popular manual was written by Tsongkhapa, founder of the strictly monastic Gelug sect. The context for the practice is rooted in the Mahayana precepts of universal compassion and the experience of the transcendental wisdom of Sunyata (Emptiness). The Buddhist tantric systems present several different models of the chakras, and for tummo the 'energetic winds' (prana, rlung) are being accumulated at the navel chakra, four fingers below the navel.[2][8] In Tibetan Buddhism the primary purpose of tummo is to gain control over subtle body processes as a foundation for very advanced mystical practices analogous to Completion stages of 'highest yoga tantra' (Anuttarayoga Tantra). Such refined internalized yogas are practices to support entry into the highest contemplative systems, for example the Dzogchen or Mahamudra systems.[9] end quote so my point is that there is more than one way to cleanse ones obstructions and karmic blockages and make way for dzogchen practice. But it does seem that at the least, a completely firm foundation in meditation is needed to rest in rigpa. Beyond that, it seems necessary to have it pointed out by a teacher who rests there already before one works with it. As someone recently said to me, the natural state exists everywhere at all times so one can break through to it while sitting on the toilet, it can happen any time. But breaking through to it, and recognizing that that is what has happened, without the help of a lineage teacher or lama, seems like a very long shot. How many people meditate their whole life but never awaken their kundalini, or penetrate the primordial state? It seems like lots. I think that this retreat (introduction to dzogchen) is good to gain familiarity, and is full of wonderful teachings. But to really practice dzogchen takes years to build the foundation, any way you get there, and then as taught by most masters, it takes the grace of the lama to point out the mind. So check out that shangshung link on feb 24th with Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, i already have the date set aside on my calendar so i don't make other plans

yeah he studied under ChNNR for 20 years

right alwayson. Although they recommend the phone introduction and explanation of the transmission as a precursor, thats free too. For info, write to any of the contacts of Norbu Rinpoche's lings and gars around the world.. the will tell you the time (next one is Feb 24th 2013, time not set yet) and everything but if you dont feel like the formality of the explanation, that live webcast is open during the time of transmission.. anyone can log on and connect with ChNNR

viator: i think this retreat would be a good introduction to dzogchen i think thats why Alan Wallace called it "introduction to dzogchen" lol just joshin

track 13! it gets better and better (although track 12 was 24 minutes of silence lol) I haven't read that book Jeff, but all ChNN's books that i have read have been really awesome, and his excellence as a teacher is very well known. One need only go to any Buddhist forum to see how many people find great benefit in his teachings and in Dzogchen Community.

so far, yes, but there is some terminology that is particular to Buddhism thrown in. Nothing you couldnt look up on wikipedia tho for a quick definition. The first 7 or 8 tracks are just basic, not really much dzogchen, and then he seems to slowly introduce it via the Dudjom Rinpoche text and his own experience and teachings (he's studied for 20 years) i would recommend this book too The Dzogchen Primer.. it is a collection of writings by past masters, i found it helpful, but again with the Buddhist terminology.. its in there. Another good book is Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche's Wild Awakening which is about both mahamudra and dzogchen. Mahamudra and dzogchen are often seen as different practices having the same end goal, the recognition of and abiding in the natural (primordial) state of mind. Mahamudra is practiced largely within the Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, while dzogchen is practiced largely within the Nyingma lineage and Bon lineages. I think there is some difference in practice though because i don't hear about mahamudra pracitioners "dying" in a wild light show and leaving only hair and fingernails behind. (i say "dying" because they become a spirit which can choose if and when it wants to take rebirth) That phenomenon seems to be accomplished by dzogchen practitioners. I have also read (Chogyal Namkhai Norbu) that Mahamudra in its entirety is contained in the first part of dzogchen (trekcho), while the mastery of trekcho is followed by the practice of thodgal, which is largely secret, and yields the rainbow body to those who master it. Thodgal involves a 7-week total darkness retreat which is considered the most dangerous practice in all of Buddhism according to Reginald A Ray. The mind hallucinates in the darkness and creates the death experiences for the practitioner.. many dzogchenpa have had psychotic breaks while practicing this. Chogyam Trungpa talked about his experiences with thodgal a little bit, but its mostly not talked about at all. His account is included in Reginald Ray's Secret of the Vajra World which has a great section on dzogchen. those three books have helped me a lot, but i just started to study dzogchen in earnest recently so i can't be a lot of help. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu gives tranmission three times a year (next in Feb 2013) which is like a pointing out of the nature of mind. He gives verbal pointing out, and metaphoric pointing out, and direct pointing out via webcast. For information on it, just put "dzogchen community" into a search engine, or if in N. America, search "Tsegyalgar" and keep your eyes on those pages near february. The transmission is free but there is a phone explanation (like a conference call type thing) of what will happen that you should attend before watching the webcast. Membership in the community is not expensive and that and the transmission will allow you to purchase restricted books by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. He is the most important dzogchen teacher alive today, and is the reincarnation of one of the most significant practitioners in history. So i recommend that avenue if you want to really get into dzogchen. A lot of people say you can't really practice without the transmission or pointing out. I have had experience with pointing out the nature of mind with another lama, and it is very wow, gives a reference point which in traditional dzogchen is considered necessary to use to practice correctly. So books and this retreat will help, but having a lineage and transmission is strongly advised to those who are really serious.

yeah 9 is awesome, im finishing it up right now! it keeps getting better and better i like how he calls the alaya "the slush" LOL

looks interesting zeros

Thanks! It was (is) all very okay, he lived a good long life (split his own wood til he was 92) and a clean honest one at that, but his later years were hard on him... it was very um appropriate for lack of a better word, that he died. Very much his time to do so. So i appreciate that sentiment but i meant it, its all good.

had to go to a funeral and hang with the fam today (my grandfather passed in his sleep after a year and a half of suffering.. its all good.) im only finishing up 6... you are blazing quite a trail there TI. So far it is very good, i am getting a lot out of it

@ cat: most welcome! i have had those moments, glad there were veggies. Strange how some teachers/teachings can just affect like that. @ apech: seeding at fiber optic speeds sir really loving it so far, can't wait until he gets deeper in to the dudjom rinpoche text.. Alan Wallace is a treat

listening to the same right now

you are welcome yes wallace is a very experienced westerner, and speaks to the western mind very well. He does know his stuff

sure thing my friend

aaron i see you are often quick to say that anything which calls into question your logic or motivations is "rhetoric without substance" and i am not quite sure what kind of point you are trying to make. It is not much of a point to me, since in the case of your use of the phrase with cat, is was incorrect, as i tried to point out. In the case of your saying the same of my post, i can only respond that your original post provides all the substance needed to verify my rhetoric lol. So i don't really see what you are saying or what kind of proof you want. I am afraid that you will have to suffice with the internet and the insubstantial rhetoric that we all use to communicate with each other lol... the ideas contained within the words can be substantial to one who is willing to engage them, but i don't expect that of anyone, just a helpful suggestion the idea of spiritual materialism is thus: that one can use spiritual ideas and beliefs to reinforce their own ego and self-grasping instead of reducing it. simple right? your original post, and your whole way of incessantly quoting master lao while tearing down everything else, is a perfect example of this. You clearly have faith in your own brand of daoism/laoism, and for that i am happy, but you seem to think that what you practice is so great that you can talk about not only particular religions, but religion as a general concept as being poison! This is a perfect example of egotistic "my-way-is-the-best-way" thinking that uses spirituality not to celebrate the diversity within the oneness that we all experience, but to denigrate and divide, celebrating dualistic thinking and spiritual elitism. So no matter how i hold your hand and walk you through the logical steps of your own spiritual materialism, it is still rhetoric! hahahaha and no matter what i say over the internet, you will still have no "substantial" proof of anything. I do hope you find this acceptable. Please do not feel a burning need to respond, as i have already read master lao, and am not really interested in any point of view on the subject that you have presented thus far. Furthermore i would like to thank marblehead for the dose of sanity, and take his advise and cease to post in this thread. I have made all the points that i would like to make, and anything more would be extraneous.

Hi Drew! your posts inspired me to start full lotus training some while ago, and, yes at the beginning i could only sit for 5 minutes but this morning i sat for 50 minutes full lotus, and am grateful for your inspiration oldgreen, i dont have anything technical like seth to say about it... just keep sitting full lotus... your body will open up and youll be able to hold the position longer

sectarian prejudice and spiritual elitism (my way is the best way!) is the poison of spirituality. spiritual materialism, something well displayed in the OP, is the poison of spirituality. religion just happens, its human nature, theres nothing anyone can do to stop it, and belittling it only shows ones own sectarian prejudice and spiritual elitism!

"The basic principle of samaya (tantric vows) is to regard the world as sacred and to avoid falling into the degradation of conventional thoughts and judgements." Reginald A. Ray Vajra Secret: The Tantric Buddhism of Tibet just in case you actually believed that there is no substance behind the idea of a sacred or uplifted world. There has been so much written on the subject it would boggle your mind, might even un-degrade it lol, but i just happened to be reading that passage and thought i would quote it here since it was relevant. The fact that the principle cat cites is the basis for the very vajrayana path seems significant, maybe even "substantial". And i dont think she was saying that some people are ignorant to make you feel insubstantial or butt-hurt. I think she was saying it because, believe it or dont, some people really are ignorant! lol btw by "conventional" in the aforequoted passaged Ray is referring to dualistic or comparative thoughts and judgements.

i think shekinah might be the word translated as holy ghost from hebrew ive seen parallels drawn to kundalini by scholars but i am not sure just sayin ive seen that

it hit our city when i was on retreat last month, but my girlfriend saw it, and loved it! baraka is probably my alltime favorite movie and i can't wait for samsara on dvd

oh im pleased with my own thoughts. i am also pleased with the thoughts of the sages, buddhas and bodhisattvas that i have chosen to follow. sometimes my thoughts are deluded, sometimes they are wrong. So i am pleased to have the compass and insights of those that have gone before me on my path. I find it of great benefit and I would not be where i am today on my own, thats for damn sure. The irony is that another, more famous figure has been quoted as saying religion is poison: Chairman Mao. That kind of extreme point of view should be spoken out against in the name of all the good guidance and moral support (no pun intended) that religion, organized spirituality, mystical philosophies, and all the rest of it have given people over the ages. I consider myself honored to follow in the footsteps of the great practitioners of my tradition, and i wouldn't change a word of the dharma if i had the chance. None of that because i can't or don't think for myself. On the contrary, i have analyzed my own mind ad nauseum and pored over the situation with logic and reason, and it precisely because of the time spent thinking about the subject for myself that i am grateful for the presence of the dharma in my life. I think Aaron's point of view is born of the same shortsighted ignorance that razed daoist temples and buddhist monasteries in china to the ground, that invaded and subjugated Tibet, and that caused immeasurable harm to the spiritual traditions of once-great china. So i speak in disagreement. Believe me i can think for myself