konchog uma

i keep meaning to buy that book. I have to admit that wu wei is an important part of the process by all accounts i have heard. But i don't think thats all there is to it. nice link, i think i'm gonna buy that book

me either.

great point but im still gonna meditate

1. i don't know why anyone says anything 2. sure 3. ok 4. since you seem to say the same things over and over, and since i have already read them once and responded, i don't have anything new to offer either. i guess we just disagree in our methodology. best wishes to you in your practice, or non-practice, whatever the case may be.

yeah that is difficult to explain, but i get it, if only intellectually. thanks

不可执以无为， It cannot be just carried out without accomplishment, 不可行于有作， It cannot be executed with intent, 不可泥于存想， It cannot just bury the thoughts in the mud, 不可着于持守， It cannot be just conservative, 不可枯坐灰心， It cannot be just sitting and discouraged, 不可盲修瞎炼。 It cannot be blindly practiced and fanatically cultivated. thank you chidragon, btw i just wanted to point out that in that passage, it does not say anything about not meditating. While it does say "it cannot be just sitting and discouraged", there is an "it" that is mentioned in each line that we have no idea what that is since the quote is taken out of context. We could assume that it is the cultivation of the internal elixir since the book is called 400 words on neidan, but that would be an assumption. Until we know, i think the basis of this whole thread is comPLETEly bunk. To me, this whole line of thinking is clearly ridiculous... I for one don't care how many books by sages you have read mr. tzu, i think that you misunderstand the ancient texts and are putting forth false ideas.

i don't sleep with a pillow cause they give me problems too! i just sleep flat.

if you watched that video you would see that mr chang can actually do something beyond just talk and theory, and he gained his union with himself and with the dao through hours and hours of... you guessed it.... meditation! john chang can light a fire with his hand and stop a bullet. All you can do is quote zhang ziyang and say that he equates to hundreds of sages, all of whom warn to abolish meditation because it is not dao. When asked for further clarification, you say that it is because meditation is doing something with your mind. Well, some is and some amn't. You assume that nobody can attain the state of wu wei and so your solution is to stop sitting entirely. John chang can heal the sick without medicine, and when he gets bored of doing that, he sticks a chopstick through 2 inches of wood for fun. Who CARES if he is truly immortal or not, he is proof of the benefits of meditation, thats the point. There are actually immortals you know, and they didn't get there just by giving up on their practices and wandering aimlessly practicing non-doing. If that worked, then every lazy bum would live to be 400. The immortals and accomplished people of dao achieved their success by internal cultivation. Neidan, as zhang ziyang writes about, is accomplished through meditation, not without it. The internal elixir does not just appear on its own when you stop trying to do anything and wander carefreely! I wish it were so, but it isn't!!

"I'm sure there's more to the picture than that. I never really looked into it." i meant no offense to you, your family, or their deity. All i know about kali is that she is associated with the hidden and mysterious things in life, and that she is a wrathful deity. So i am not speaking as any kind of authority. My sincerest appologies for offending you.

well thats what i think that quote from the neidan text was referring to, but its hard to tell, taking 6 lines out of context. Thanks for your point of view, i think a lot of people meditate "wrong" but then with time they figure out what they were missing and start doing it "right" so its all just process. and i don't mean to be argumentative but i thought mr tzu was saying the meditation was contrary to dao, and that we should not do it.

i meditate in wu wei, and anyone who claims that they actually do understand dao is full of it. there's more to being united with dao than that IMO. That seems like an oversimplification to me. I'm glad you're reading the old texts and having thoughts of your own, but i'm gonna stick with my meditations

haha i don't buy it. washing your dishes and reading your paper is doing something with your mind. Waking up and getting out of bed is too. So are all the things we do throughout the day. Do you suggest a mindless shuffling around all day without accomplishing anything? Or should we just sit there and try not to meditate? mostly i find that you are identifying a so-called problem without suggesting what the correct way is. So you are saying what is wrong without offering a solution. And on top of that i just disagree 100% with you.

then whats wrong with meditation? i can live in dao and meditate just fine.

i think if meditation is cerebral you're doing it wrong.

surely zhang ziyang recommends an alternative to meditation how is the inner alchemy practiced? while we are doing dishes, or maybe reading the daily paper? I can not grasp how inner alchemy can be seperated from meditation.

what is shi li? I don't understand what he is doing. Can you explain a little?

one should never gaze at the midday sun only morning sun from 45mins-1hr after sunrise and evening sun 45mins-1hr before

i think attachment is the crux of the issue, meaning that as long as we have a physical body we will experience pleasure and pain, so we will like pleasure and dislike pain. In that sense, its just a toward/away response that many people have tried to sublimate, but most just frustrate themselves into neurosis of some sort. but if you seek bliss without attachment to bliss, what is the harm of bliss? perhaps there is nothing so wrong with accepting bliss and the practices which bring it. As long as one does not become unbalanced or think that their bliss is not interconnected with suffering, who cares? it is inevitable that we seek spiritual truth and the happiness it brings. Life is not static, we have to do something. The ideal of just sitting in stillness until you die is not a healthy one according to many schools of spirituality.

we all need a little help understanding just what you are talking about getting your shit in place? having no center? it would help people help you if you told them what you were practicing, for how long, under what guidance, what your symptoms were, etc. having kundalini wide open makes no sense to me personally so that is all the help i can give you good luck

i am glad you are happy Kali does get a bad rap, i suppose because her followers murdered people gleefully. I'm sure there's more to the picture than that. I really never looked into it.

well thats a bit different than saying "Many ancient sages said that meditation is a bad way for pursue Dao." i think that meditation is not the problem, its good for so many things, it speaks for itself. I think the problem is trying to pursue dao. If you put down the idea of "pursue", you will find that the dao is already around you and within you right now, and that what you have been pursuing has already found you. Which is no excuse to stop meditating. Its a good reason to start actually its a broad concept with many different methodologies.. which makes it all the harder to make blanket statements about ??

can you cite a source?

hahah i'm afraid i never said anything of the sort. thought is fine, but trying to talk about what causal source it came from is pointless. Since it is necessary to understand the pointlessness of it in order to avoid wasting energy trying to ascribe a beginning to something that may well be beginningless, or trying to ascribe meaning to something the meaning of which may be totally arbitrary, or trying to talk about a source that, well can't be talked about. So i hope that answers your question. My sincerest apologies for the tone of that post, i was really grumpy about a personal matter, i shouldn't have brought it here. But coarse language and inappropriate attitude aside, the point that i was making stands. Probably why laotzu mentioned it first. I think i'm done talking about it though, as it seems to be quite unpopular. Maybe something great will come from talking about it, who am i to say

logic is the sheepdog. reality is an unlimited dream that we just might never understand. well i think you missed my point but i'm not going to try harder than that to make it again. sorry i reminded you of your dad in an unpleasant way. the saying is no less true.

i think you just have to post here first and then you can post elsewhere and probably send PMs too the policy is to cut down on spam and bots and spambots nothing personal