konchog uma

Hi anamatva. Do you practice/have you practiced in a group setting? My intro to qigong/neigong was through regular, weekly classes with good instructors. I experienced many nuances to the proper form(s) that I studied. (And the many nuances between good teachers and mediocre teachers. ) Learning/studying with a teacher and other "in person" students was immensely helpful to me.

 

P.S. I took a quick look for resources in your area. In case you are interested, take a look. If not, no worries.

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/listing/directory.php#Pennsylvania

sweet of you, i really appreciate that. i have never studied in a group setting (well 15 years ago i learned shaolin kungfu and taiji and there were other people there). but not qigong. i have studied with meditation masters of two traditions (daoist and mikkyo) and that makes 3 masters who i studied meditation under. so i know the benefit of having that feedback loop, i just haven't looked into it or found a master that i feel compelled to study under yet. also, i am really poor, but thats beside the point, i should still look into it.

thank you for your encouragement!

 

Conclusion: suicide is caused mostly, if not only, by our monetary system.

 

Source of information: zeitgeist addendum (monetary system) and zeitgeist moving forward (alignment with nature).

 

people get depressed for a variety of reasons. rich people get depressed and some attempt suicide. the cult of zeitgeist blames everything on money, which shifts personal responsibility away from the self. beware of oversimplified answers.

Tao te ching for some thought provoking words, read about the warrior diet for health, not reading books to improve love life, knowing your limits to live a durable life.

 

I'd raise a beer to that, but I don't like beer.

i raise my carrot juice to you sir

Are you sitting on a zafu? Try to sit more on your "sits bones"....I personally lean forward kind of to expose the lower buttocks area, put my weight down, and then bring the torso back up so that it is balanced in all directions. Maybe that will help.

 

Yes, I think it should be done very gently. The way I was taught, the mind should focus elsewhere, such as the lower dantien. Closing the huiyin naturally takes some attention away, which isn't a problem.

 

It sounds like you're using the 3 bandhas, am I right? They do things pretty forcefully which is different from how I learned Taoist ways.

yes sitting on a cushion, i do just the same thing you described up there, leaning forward then straightening. very helpful.

i didn't learn the locks through yoga practice, i learned them from a shaolin sifu. he was not a taoist master. i just never really got the point of it (anal lock) which isn't his fault. i think its just my (un)natural western forcefulness that caused me to miss the mark.

thanks for your advice, i appreciate it.

if one is searching for a map

one is lost

 

 

-

brilliant

ChiDragon,

 

Stop spreading lies on the forum, please. Closing the huiyin is a very basic part of many Taoist practices, and is not for people at an advanced level. It can be done sitting.

it destabilizes my posture and causes rigidity. i was thinking it might be deep seated fears that cause root chakra issues. i had a pretty hellified childhood. but maybe i'm just using too much force.

is it something that is done gently, like just a little bit? the other two locks stabilize my posture and increase the flow of energy through my whole body, but the anal lock seems to do the opposite unless i do it oh-so-lightly. then it distracts my mind because it demands my attention and intention.

any advice?

http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong/qigong_the_secret_of_youth

http://ymaa.com/publishing/books/qigong/the_root_of_chinese_qigong

 

These have helped me. I would start with the bottom one first. I placed the other one on top because

that seemed to be where your interest is.

 

On another thread there is talk of starting a discussion about this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Xing-Nei-Gong-Maintenance-Development/dp/0865681740

I cannot agree with the price for this book. Occasionally it can be found for around 20 usd.

There is a dvd of Tim Cartmell doing this nei gung set but without any verbal instruction.

http://www.sakuramartialarts.com/Martial_Arts_DVD_Videos_Xing_Yi_Nei_Gung_p/VID-8651-A1.htm&click=1

 

There are many Qigongs or Nei Gongs to choose from. These just came to my mind.

Hope it helps.

Also there are many older topics on this subject here on The Tao Bums.

thanks! i just bought 2 books this morning so im going to hold off on those for now.

i am re-reading mantak chia's five elements fusion qigong. i have learned to take small steps in the proper order so i'm going to build from where i am instead of jumping in headfirst. i will search TTB for nei gong threads and read those to build familiarity while i read and practice master chia's qigong.

again, thanks!

i have always been drawn to nei kung, and bone marrow nei kung in particular. i don't practice, but when i hear about it, my attention focuses and i think "thats what i need"

what are good introductory books/vids for learning about nei kung? do i need a solid foundation in qigong to practice effectively?

Perhaps someone could volunteer to moderate a Buddhist subforum? I have a sneaky suspiscion that more Buddhist discussions will pop up, as more traffic is directed to TTB as new folks register.

 

Just trying to think of work arounds and to express sensitivity for the hardcore Taoist practitioners as well as the Buddhists who like to chat.

thats a really good point (that first one). buddhists already have enough places to type the wild dharma on the internet. i just deleted my vote for yes.

it would also attract the very kind of buddhists that drive you guys nuts, who search for "dharma" and see that there is a group of daoists calling themselves tao bums and then they will want to rage the wild dharma all over us here. i can see it now.

Good point.

 

(And it would likely be well used. Hehehe.)

ive seen a lot of buddhist talk from both sides of the fence here, so i think it would probably be worth trying. and it would give all you hardcore daoists an added layer of protection from the big B-word! like a dental dam for your spirit

That brought a chuckle. Hehehe.

there could be a subsection for vapid buddhist rants and proselytizing and such

Really? I am certainly Interested in this... especially in learning about the Wu Wei teachings which are apparently like a Taoist Dzogchen?...

 

Plus Taoist energy cultivation practices are [to me] the best I have come across, apart from the teachings of the Qero...

yeah there are so many similarities that the differences become sorta negligible from a certain point of view.

dzogchen is totally daoist in nature, and both tibetan buddhism and daoism have their deep roots in shamanism

can you link to qero info that you think would be good for beginners? i know i could google it but i would rather go with what you recommend than sift through search engine results knowing absolutely nothing about it. thanks!

So difficult, but I feel it's a rewarding practice. Even if I don't always acheive it it's what I aim to do.

yeah thats difficult indeed. but the way of the planet is to grow food and shelter for us no matter what it thinks of our personal character, and the way of the spirit is to be omnipresent, not there for some but not for others.

unconditional virtue is something i am working on right now and it is SO hard at first

OK so i had a girlfriend a while back and she completely broke my heart but i still love her anyway and we've been friends and now she wants to get back together and i want to but it seems like i'm just being weak by doing that. so What would a Tao cultivator think about and do in this situation?

daoism isn't full of rules, so much as it is full of encouragement to engage the discriminating mind and see what is best to do in each situation as it arises. if you have conflicting ideas (i should, i shouldn't...) then as stigweard said, follow the path with heart. that is the best all around advice for living a life that is true to yourself, and comes from many different and unrelated traditions. it isn't always the "path of least resistance" which is often cited as a daoist ideal by lazy people, sometimes it is the harder path or the high road.

a dao cultivator might meditate on it, and more deeply observe why they both wanted something and didn't want it. in your case you might want the romantic companionship of the woman in question, but you might also not want to get hurt again. i recommend just sitting with these ideas quietly and opening your spirit to the great spirit, letting its guidance in.

pleasure and pain seem to be a yin-yang pair and its hard to let someone into your life without putting them in a position to really hurt you. the balance is a good reminder not to hold on too tight, and not to let go too easily, but find a gentle middle ground. good luck to you!

thats great, thanks! i just searched for da liu on www.paperbackswap.com and found this book

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Health-Longevity-America-Exercises/dp/1557784361/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314095188&sr=1-1

so i had it sent to me. thanks for the recommendation!

i also found this as a similarly searched book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087728542X?SubscriptionId=0QCHRJVSKG6F3BRGBNG2&tag=pbs_00006-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=087728542X

and ordered a used copy on amazon.

thanks, usually when i search for books on "tao" all i find is a million copies of the tao de ching, some deng-ming dao, the tao of pooh, etc. those books up there are the books i have been looking for!

when i was 18 i read Daniel Reid's "Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity" and let it change my life

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Health-Sex-Longevity-Practical/dp/067164811X

has anyone else read this book? it focuses on food combination, living foods, fruit/veggie juices, fasting, colon cleansing, herbs, and also covers a host of other topics from qigong to philosophy, but i wanted to start a thread for people to talk about their experiences with daoist diet and different diets they have tried.

i haven't combined complex animal proteins with carbs for 15 years. i gave up drinking milk and eating wheat. i juice carrots lemons apples whatever every day. i try to keep 50% of my diet raw living foods (enzymatically active) or at least eat a huge salad every day. i drink kombucha (but not too much, i read it hurts the kidneys in quantities above 2 bottles a day). i keep it organic and local about 90%.

now i am 33 and people tell me i look way younger all the time. however i am still looking to improve so i would like to hear from others who have comments on daoist dietary practices, on my practices, on daniel reid's book, on other literature that would benefit those on the path of respecting their spirit's temple, or on anything you might think is related and beneficial. thank you!

when one is ready to face death, one would have found the peace needed..

 

true peace comes when you finally found the courage and the heart to accept death if and when it comes..

 

am i ready to death? almost ready..

i really don't care to discuss it further.

bless your endeavors.

but obviously, too many lay people in this world world prefer the baser lower-dimensional activities of fun,good food and sex than to be a higher dimensional being

those two things aren't mutually exclusive. we're all higher dimensional beings whether we realize it or not, and i hate to break it to you, but some higher dimensional beings have fun.

i hope your heart and mind soften. bless your path tulku, may you find the peace you seek.

using the internet isn't engaging the senses .. however i know many who use the internet to indulge in their senses of sight for eg internet porn..

 

i have never advocated one must live in the mountains to cultivate.. you can be in a small town or deep forest..

 

the main point is to stay away from sex, good food and all other fun, sensory-indulging activities

 

that way, you will experience the void faster than if you engage in sex, good food and fun..

well you are presuming that the goal of practice is to experience the void. you can't even define that because its paradoxically impossible.

secondly, there are whole schools that disagree with you based on the premise that if one can realize the emptiness of sex and other sensory pleasures while engaged in them, they can realize the emptiness of anything. in other words, your philosophy works only as long as one is sequestered away and doesn't have to deal with life on life's terms, while an accepting philosophy works everywhere.

if you have ever heard of kalachakra tantra, the highest yoga tantra involves using the practice of lovemaking to contemplate and realize emptiness. when you talk about experiencing the void, i assume you are talking about realizing emptiness, since the negation or dissolution of consciousness itself has never been the highest goal of anyone except maybe people who seek death.

anyway, your attitude is too rigid for me to take you seriously. in other words, if your path bore the highest fruit, why are you so rigid? one who has realized the void would see the total lack of importance in such matters as these, and would have an all-inclusive understanding, not an understanding that divides into dualistic opposites. you claim to espouse the highest path but your example is one of dichotomy and duality, something we dirty worldly people are trying to transcend in spite of our sexual practices and our love of food.

if everyone thought like you the human race would be extinct in a single generation. THEN who would realize the highest truth of void consciousness?? oh wait, everyone. nevermind.

Good point

 

When I renounce something, I'm tied to it, I'm attached to it's absence.

If I can see it, and my desire, for what they truly are there is no need for renunciation.

That's liberation.

thats an awesome point. im glad something good came out of this thread.

"in order to reject something, accept it. and in order to accept it, reject it." -lao

http://www.daoistmagic.com/info.php?i=2131

Reclusive Training: This type of Daoist training is sometimes regarded as the higher path of the Daoist Right-Hand school of training. It requires the mystic to remove him or herself from society becoming a lone sage. After recognizing the flaws of ritualistic forms of worship and giving up the politically ingrained patterns of religious dogma, the mystic generally retreats to a cave for internal introspection. Although ritualistic forms of worship are essential for purifying the mind, any form of external oriented action can also keep the mind bound to the external world. Therefore, in the highest stages of Daoist mystical training, the individual releases all attachments to material objects (people, places and things) and spiritual powers (controlling the Elements, the Six Transportations of Shen, etc.) and strives only to attain "oneness" with the eternal Dao through self-introspection.

 

There is fundamentally no difference between taoism and buddhism. All religions and spiritual paths are created and improved upon by countless men cutting off their mundane senses to experience the void.

 

As shown above, it is said that the highest path of daoism involve cutting yourself off from the polluted material society and more importantly, cutting your attachments off to attain oneness with the Dao.

renunciation isn't for everyone. daoism evolved to offer guidance to people of worldly paths (graceful acceptance) and monastic paths (graceful rejection). if a person chooses to live in the world, or has to, but they reject the world, they can go crazy and cultivate negativity and lack of peace. so this is not good.

also there is more than one single goal. no ism is That simple so i think its important to respect all aspects of spiritual cultivation. not everyone is motivated to experience the void, even if you strongly feel that this is the goal of your own personal practice. people are born with different natures, proclivities, and predilections. what seems right for you isn't right for everyone.

and i loathe to make this a personal matter, but i will bring up an example from my own practice. i am not a monastic renunciate but i have had my experiences with void consciousness and with dissolution into oneness. so therefore, one does not need to have no sex or fun or sensory input in order to achieve these goals.

daoism has never advocated cultivating rigid attitudes, so maybe if you expanded your acceptance to include the paths that were appropriate for others, you would find more peace.

This is virtually the same concept as Dzogchen and Mahamudra in Tibetan Buddhism. Not to mention Jhana Meditation in Theravada Buddhism.

dzogchen is just the awareness that we are already one with the all, that we don't have to do anything else or realize anything else, and it is expressed by just being spontaneously ourselves. so its not the same at all. its sort of the opposite of what you are saying, which is deny healthy human impulses and try to realize the void.

part of realizing emptiness is that it makes room for the fullness of life, which is beautiful when it is balanced by emptiness realization. but balance is the key, not getting lost in emptiness. this is a common mistake.

Whether it be Taoism or Buddhism or Hinduism or whatever, one still have to cut his material senses in order to reach the highest stages of cultivation and that means no sex, no good food, no fun which stimulate the senses.

all three of those paths have evolved to encompass the needs of the many. hinduism, for example, ranges from the void-driven nihilistic renunciation you are going on about to tantric shaivism, which says that you should accept everything on principle, and have as much sex (and meat, and wine, depending on your school of shaivism) as you want as long as you are doing it in a way that enables progress on your spiritual path.

my point is, there are more ways than the way you think is right. and since you seem so fired up about your way, why aren't you dressed in rags on a mountain path, begging for rice and contemplating the void? why are you using the internet? isnt that a part of the polluted world that you seem to detest? your example speaks louder than your words, so you seem to contradict yourself.

@ everyone else: i can see why you guys get sick of the buddhists here

It's the same brain while dreaming. It's just that while dreaming all the 'normal' connections are not functioning and the dreams pop in and out spontaneously. I associate dreaming more with the unconcsoious aspect of our brain.

i guess there is a brain its just asleep. what about ghosts? non-corporeal entities?

 

But I don't consider consciousness a direct attribute of Tao, it is an evolved attribute. It is my understanding that consciousness requires at least a brain with (self)awareness.

 

what about dreams?

anamatva, welcome .i am certainly enjoying all of your posts and insights. thanks for sharing. the reason i highlighted this post is the "existence is suffering " thing.

i admit i have a very limited knowledge about (B word) but from the general discussion area i have seen alot of thought , that there is no existence but yet there is suffering. for me this is hard to relate to.

one reason i have chosen the taoist path over any other is becoz it details many options for better health and longevity. and for me it seems that the bguys need to be quite intellectual and that leaves me out.

my idea is i am trying to get to a place where both object and subject vanish and there i feel a unifying connection to everything.

imo there is spirit. within us and all around us and in everything. or maybe it is just awareness. imo they are closely related.

thanks zerostao.

yeah oneness is where its at.

one last bit about the big B, the bon shamans of tibet rejected every single transmission of buddhism until about 750ad, when king indrabhuti's vajrayana was transmitted by padmasambhava to the shaman-emperor's court. vajrayana is basically an import of shaivite tantrism, focused on unmitigated acceptance. those shamans knew better than to accept a doctrine based on suffering, and i respect anyones rejection of that doctrine. if its good enough for the himalayan mountain shamans, its good enough for me. interestingly indrabhuti's sister codified sahajayana, which is the instinct path. thats those chanting dreadlocked sadhus that go homeless and do all manner of entheogenic sacrament (smoking scorpion tails is bad for your health tho) and basically mock the buddhist establishment as a whole. so anyway this has nothing to do with subjectivity and objectivity, but it does support my earlier statement that there are as many kinds of buddhism as there are kinds of daoism, from the path of pristine purity to being a drug-addled bum, so lumping them together is stupid.

anyway, back to the topic...

An example of it's use is standing Wu Ji Daoist MCO.

 

This is from Jerry's book:

 

"The most important basic techniques of Medical Qigong training are guided by eighteen rules of proper form and structure. The main point of Postural Dao Yin training is to relax and seek quiescence while in the various postures. Tension in any area of the body restricts the whole structural system, since the body seeks to balance its structure naturally by shifting its energy and weight. The general function of the muscles is to guide the flow of energy through the channels. The following is a list of the Eighteen Rules for proper standing postures, these rules apply to every school of energy cultivation:

1. Stand with the feet flat,

2. Bend the knees,

3. Relax the hips,

4. Round the perineal area,

5. Close the anal sphincter,

6. Pull in the Stomach,

7. Relax the waist,

8. Tuck the chest in,

9. Stretch the back,

10. Relax the shoulders,

11. Sink the elbows,

12. Hollow the armpits,

13. Relax the wrists,

14. Suspend the head,

15. Tuck the chin,

16. Close the eyes for inner vision,

17. Close the mouth and tum your hearing inwards, and

18. Touch the tongue to the upper palate,

Each of these eighteen rules is described in detail...

. . .

The anus is divided into five regions: Front, Middle, Back, Left, and Right. By contracting the anus in different parts, you can bring more Qi to the various organs and glands."

thanks! i like the part "the general function of the muscles is to guide the flow of energy through the channels". thats a wakeup call to retrain them...

not much more to say since i am just learning qigong beyond the most basic excercises at present. i don't want to derail the thread by talking about it here