Jeff

In the text, I was quoting the gospels and not the Old Testament. Jesus (and the gospels) never say anything like an "eye for an eye". Also, I have never said that the Holy Spirit is the same as kundalini, but I have stated that kundalini is a power (or energy) of the Holy Spirit. Sorry to hear that you find quotes from the gospels as insulting. Also, I would agree that true understanding is very different than reading a book. Best wishes.

Agreed. But in the example originally described, the person was specifically doing practices to extend their life beyond their natural time. They "desired" to have a longer life with practices that supported the desire and attachment with it. Such practices that support such personal desire are not in keeping with spiritual immortality (as described in the many texts).

Yes, that seems to be the common theme around here, but as described in the many quotes above, such a belief is still clinging/attachment. How can it be selfless service, if the sense of self needs to preserve itself beyond the natural order of the flow of Tao? That is more the trap of higher spiritual ego, in simple terms one is saying... "I am so important that the world cannot exist without me. It needs me too much." Best wishes.

Being beyond good and evil happens when one knows they are both nothing and all. Submitting is about "letting go". If one struggles to do what is necessary (and percieved to be right), they are judging and basing it upon personal (ego) desire and are not flowing with the Tao. CHAPTER 20 - TTC (SFH version) Give up learning, put an end to your troubles. Remain and dwell in simplicity. I am contented, for I dwell in the infinite; the Dao is full when it is present in the heart. Others enjoy the feast, but I am alone and wandering, drifting with the wind. Open and yielding like a new born babe. Innocent and simple, for I am nourished by the Great Mother of all thing,, Others have more than what they need, but I alone have nothing. I seem foolish and confused, but I alone am aware and alert. Other Men seem sharp and clever, For my simplicity and innocence appears dull and stupid to such Men. I drift like the waves of the sea and follow the flow. Everyone seems busy, but I alone am without desire and uncluttered. I am different, for I am nourished by the great Dao. ..... Drift in the wind or ride the waves, but follow the flow...

In your description you stated, "That's not strictly true, my teacher prolonged his life in order to serve, to teach more people and to create more expressions of truth." What is your definition of attachment? What does it mean to believe that you (self) are necessary? If he clings to desire and attachment, How can he follow the way? The true seeker Subdues all waywardness. He has submitted his nature to quietness. He is a true seeker Not because he begs But because he follows the lawful way, Holding back nothing, holding to nothing, Beyond good and evil, Beyond the body and beyond the mind. -Dhammapada

By mutable, do you mean that it would change? Or one's desire/goal would change?

No problem. Just a very strong statement in saying that your teacher has such an ability.

Just very interested. But, I take it that you meant the "why" as a "no".

Can you say who your teacher is? And how did he/she prolong their life?

Even acting to give yourself more time is based upon fear (of missing out) and a desire to "realize" something for oneself. Such an approach is of the individual "ego".

Then we are definitely talking about a different concept of immortality. I was describing spiritual immortality (or beyond the physical body). I believe that was also obvious from my earlier posts. And as I have described in the earlier quotes, I would even go further and say that if one is actually pursueing physical immortality of the body, then they are not on a path that will lead them to (spiritual) immortality. Striving for physical immortality (or even "trying" to to live a longer life), is based in fear. Fear of death, is crossed relatively early in any advanced process. Since we are both from a Christian background, I will leave you with these words from the gospels which specifically touch on the point (of immortality)... Romans 8:6-17 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

A slight counter point to the above... The master endures Insults and ill treatment Without reacting. For his spirit is an army. He is never angry. He keeps his promises. He never strays, he is determined. This body is my last, he says! Like water on the leaf of a lotus flower Or a mustard seed on the point of a needle, He does not cling. For he has reached the end of sorrow And has laid down his burden. He looks deeply into things And sees their nature. He discriminates And reaches the end of the way. -Dhammapada

If one is trying (desiring) to extend the life of their physical body, they are not on the path of an immortal.

Meditation is the same as energy refining. Increasing mental clarity is the same as increasingly refined energy, just two sides of the same coin. Like being in a child in the family, some are closer to the father and some are closer to the mother, but it is all the same family. The Dhammapada is an excellent piece, and I would highly recommend it to all. Here is another passage on the thread topic for the group... In him there in no yesterday, No tomorrow, No today. Possessing nothing, Wanting nothing. He is full of power. Fearless, wise, exalted. He has vanquished all things. He sees by virtue of his purity. He has come to the end of the way, Over the river of his many lives, His many deaths. Beyond the sorrow of hell, Beyond the great joy of heaven, By virtue of his purity. He has come to the end of the way. All that he had to do, he has done. And now he is one.

Hi TI, I did not say that people do not grow old and die. I stated as you even quoted above... And I am sure that for his time period, Buddha probably looked much younger than other men of his comparable years. More best wishes, Jeff

If one is choosing, building or maintaining, then one is not refining... Others enjoy the feast, but I am alone and wandering, drifting with the wind. Open and yielding like a new born babe. Innocent and simple, for I am nourished by the Great Mother of all thing,, -TTC Or if you prefer Buddhism... On the air they rise And fly an invisible course, Gathering nothing, storing nothing. Their food is knowledge. They live upon emptiness. -Dhammapada

Practices that truly lead to immortality also increase the health (and life span) of the physical body. Such practices clear obstructions, issues and fears that can manifest as illness/disease in the body. The more broadly opened channels increase and improve vitality. Such practioners even look significantly younger then their actual years. Best wishes.

Welcome.

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'" - Gospel of Thomas

Thanks for the request, but i have posted on the topic many times and recently such posts seem to create a lot of drama. If you are interested, just search for some of my past posts on stages or progression.

Very interesting set of beliefs you have there. Thanks for sharing.

And this is just the beginning... Seeing expands to feeling, and then to being...

Not at all... Just as you have the universe always existing, you can have God always existing and everything that is perceived to exist is just a subset of God.

While I am not defining a "creator", it also does not show that there is not some outside force that is providing the ongoing energy for the accelerating expansion of the universe. What is your logical argument that there is no such being? But, please start a new thread with your argument for there being no such thing, it would make an interesting thread in its own right.

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