Jeff

I am not a spiritual teacher, so no problem. I thought the answer perfect for your original question. So what is your specific question? Happy to answer. Best, Jeff

Those with the ability to see...will see. Those with the ability to hear...will hear. Those with the ability to feel...will feel. That is the nature of chat. Best wishes.

Got to 8 today! New record. Come join us and see if we can break it.

Going in for a while. Anyone interested?

Inner heart or above the head, which is truly "higher"? I would be interested in your thoughts...

Welcome.

So, no separate? No higher and lower?

Interesting point. Is there a difference between inside and outside?

Or also... Luke 17: 20-21 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Some of us still periodically pop in.

This verse to points out to me that It is particularly challenging, as people "judge" from their own perspective... And for most, that perspective is trapped as memories from the past, being projected into the future. Rather than realizing that for a Prophet, there is only the full and open response of the "moment"...

Yes, there are deeper depths of "mind" that are beyond one's conscious perception. The spiritual process is really about sort of like "pulling" the subconscious parts into the conscious (or you could also say expanding the conscious to include those greater depths). This is primarily done by dropping issues, fears and obstructions which limit one's perception of these deeper levels. Best wishes.

Thought it might be time to move on to the next verse... Any thoughts? 31. Jesus said, "No prophet is welcome on his home turf; doctors don't cure those who know them."

Hi Zoom, The text is describing tantric/energy purification. The Ling (or mysterious female) aspect would be like working with a Dakini in buddhism. From the male perspective, the loop is created with a "divine female". The divine female creates sort of a localized "void" for the male. That void sort of "pulls on" the energy impurities (issues/fears) and they flow from the lower tien to the divine female. The divine female raises up the energy (purifies) and returns it to the male to the tien of his current capacity (middle or higher). At the higher levels of the process, the loop goes through the crown and back to the male. With this process, the "inner heart" is opened (some traditions call this the 8th chakra). But, basically the tiens sort of merge into an unified field (light body) which is based in the (inner) heart. Best, Jeff

Actually, I would go even further... If one still perceives that there are such things as meditative states, it is not truly possible to realize "ultimate" emptiness. Best wishes.

Hi ChiForce, I apologize. It is not my place to comment on your experience. Best wishes, Jeff

Yes, and I agree with your above statement and such experiences. But, what you are describing is not "emptiness" in the buddhist concept. What you are describing is going deeper into consciousness or "quiet mind". Also, the huge influx of chi are the channels opening at a more refined level/layer. With the realization of "clear light" the chakras have integrated into a unified field and there is no longer any sense of "flowing".

I would disagree on your sleep statement. If one has realized emptiness, they are already past the point of where there is a percieved difference between meditation and normal daily life (or sleep). Best, Jeff

Single point meditation is "easier", but it is of the mind and also subject to the mind. Also, one does not mediate "on" emptiness. Meditating on anything is the same as single point meditation. On more "resides" regarding emptiness. Best wishes.

The interesting thing about that is the more one lets go of the desire to be king, the larger one's realm actually becomes...

You have already probably seen this before, but it is all summed up in the words below. Happy to discuss if you are interested. Best, Jeff --------------- Tilopa’s Mahamudra Instruction to Naropa in Twenty Eight Verses (translated by Keith Dowman) Homage to the Eighty Four Mahasiddhas! Homage to Mahamudra! Homage to the Vajra Dakini! Mahamudra cannot be taught. But most intelligent Naropa, Since you have undergone rigorous austerity, With forbearance in suffering and with devotion to your Guru, Blessed One, take this secret instruction to heart. Is space anywhere supported? Upon what does it rest? Like space, Mahamudra is dependant upon nothing; Relax and settle in the continuum of unalloyed purity, And, your bonds loosening, release is certain. Gazing intently into the empty sky, vision ceases; Likewise, when mind gazes into mind itself, The train of discursive and conceptual thought ends And supreme enlightenment is gained. Like the morning mist that dissolves into thin air, Going nowhere but ceasing to be, Waves of conceptualization, all the mind’s creation, dissolve, When you behold your mind’s true nature. Pure space has neither colour nor shape And it cannot be stained either black or white; So also, mind’s essence is beyond both colour and shape And it cannot be sullied by black or white deeds. The darkness of a thousand aeons is powerless To dim the crystal clarity of the sun’s heart; And likewise, aeons of samsara have no power To veil the clear light of the mind’s essence. Although space has been designated "empty", In reality it is inexpressible; Although the nature of mind is called "clear light", Its every ascription is baseless verbal fiction. The mind’s original nature is like space; It pervades and embraces all things under the sun. Be still and stay relaxed in genuine ease, Be quiet and let sound reverberate as an echo, Keep your mind silent and watch the ending of all worlds. The body is essentially empty like the stem of a reed, And the mind, like pure space, utterly transcends the world of thought: Relax into your intrinsic nature with neither abandon nor control - Mind with no objective is Mahamudra - And, with practice perfected, supreme enlightenment is gained. The clear light of Mahamudra cannot be revealed By the canonical scriptures or metaphysical treatises Of the Mantravada, the Paramitas or the Tripitaka; The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals. By harbouring rigid precepts the true samaya is impaired, But with cessation of mental activity all fixed notions subside; When the swell of the ocean is at one with its peaceful depths, When mind never strays from indeterminate, non-conceptual truth, The unbroken samaya is a lamp lit in spiritual darkness. Free of intellectual conceits, disavowing dogmatic principles, The truth of every school and scripture is revealed. Absorbed in Mahamudra, you are free from the prison of samsara; Poised in Mahamudra, guilt and negativity are consumed; And as master of Mahamudra you are the light of the Doctrine. The fool in his ignorance, disdaining Mahamudra, Knows nothing but struggle in the flood of samsara. Have compassion for those who suffer constant anxiety! Sick of unrelenting pain and desiring release, adhere to a master, For when his blessing touches your heart, the mind is liberated. KYE HO! Listen with joy! Investment in samsara is futile; it is the cause of every anxiety. Since worldly involvement is pointless, seek the heart of reality! In the transcending of mind’s dualities is Supreme vision; In a still and silent mind is Supreme Meditation; In spontaneity is Supreme Activity; And when all hopes and fears have died, the Goal is reached. Beyond all mental images the mind is naturally clear: Follow no path to follow the path of the Buddhas; Employ no technique to gain supreme enlightenment. KYE MA! Listen with sympathy! With insight into your sorry worldly predicament, Realising that nothing can last, that all is as dreamlike illusion, Meaningless illusion provoking frustration and boredom, Turn around and abandon your mundane pursuits. Cut away involvement with your homeland and friends And meditate alone in a forest or mountain retreat; Exist there in a state of non-meditation And attaining no-attainment, you attain Mahamudra. A tree spreads its branches and puts forth leaves, But when its root is cut its foliage withers; So too, when the root of the mind is severed, The branches of the tree of samsara die. A single lamp dispels the darkness of a thousand aeons; Likewise, a single flash of the mind’s clear light Erases aeons of karmic conditioning and spiritual blindness. KYE HO! Listen with joy! The truth beyond mind cannot be grasped by any faculty of mind; The meaning of non-action cannot be understood in compulsive activity; To realise the meaning of non-action and beyond mind, Cut the mind at its root and rest in naked awareness. Allow the muddy waters of mental activity to clear; Refrain from both positive and negative projection - leave appearances alone: The phenomenal world, without addition or subtraction, is Mahamudra. The unborn omnipresent base dissolves your impulsions and delusions: Do not be conceited or calculating but rest in the unborn essence And let all conceptions of yourself and the universe melt away. The highest vision opens every gate; The highest meditation plumbs the infinite depths; The highest activity is ungoverned yet decisive; And the highest goal is ordinary being devoid of hope and fear. At first your karma is like a river falling through a gorge; In mid-course it flows like a gently meandering River Ganga; And finally, as a river becomes one with the ocean, It ends in consummation like the meeting of mother and son. If the mind is dull and you are unable to practice these instructions, Retaining essential breath and expelling the sap of awareness, Practising fixed gazes - methods of focussing the mind, Discipline yourself until the state of total awareness abides. When serving a karmamudra, the pure awareness of bliss and emptiness will arise: Composed in a blessed union of insight and means, Slowly send down, retain and draw back up the bodhichitta, And conducting it to the source, saturate the entire body. But only if lust and attachment are absent will that awareness arise. Then gaining long-life and eternal youth, waxing like the moon, Radiant and clear, with the strength of a lion, You will quickly gain mundane power and supreme enlightenment. May this pith instruction in Mahamudra Remain in the hearts of fortunate beings.

Hi Katja, Welcome! Best, Jeff

Maybe consider the word "subconscious". The mind is active, but it below/beyond one's conscious perception. Best wishes.

Hi Infinity, What does "fully self-realized" mean? Thanks, Jeff

Ok, it sounds like we disagree regarding the Gospel of Thomas. But, I still don't really get your point regarding Josephus and the relation to the "Christian mysticism" teachings of Jesus. Does Josephus mention anything about Jesus and his teachings anywhere in his Jewish historical texts? Thanks, Jeff