Jeff

Hi Stephos, Thanks for your description. It does seem like you are mixing a lot of different things with the four components that you have chosen. In particular, Paul was not a direct disciple of Jesus (later visions, also Roman changes) and Jacob Boehme had some very interesting views. On that point, I would present the following verse for you consideration... 12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?" Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being." (Gospel of Thomas) Also, I think it is very challenging to attempt to integrate the orthodox Jewish views into the words of Jesus. As he said, he was bringing a new covenant (understanding) into the world. Similar to the concept of a new terma/turning (Buddhism). Best wishes, Jeff

Hi TaoMaster, I have a question regarding your concept of a grand pole and "lessor" pole... In my experience, it is more like there is rest (or it could be called "void") and then the motion (or movement of the void). In the motion, there is both "transmission" and "reception", which could be like your two poles. Is that similar? Thanks, Jeff

What we are (and are not) is not limited to the local body mind. Best wishes.

I would agree with CT. Shiva and Buddha nature are not the same thing. Primordial Spirit would seem to describe something more in line with a "One". Best, Jeff

Hi Stephos, Sorry if I had misunderstood your "tripartite" comment. If you are focused on the orthox Jewish perspective (rather than what Jesus taught and Christian mysticism), then we are obviously talking about different things. Best wishes, Jeff

Hi Stephos, I would agree that the teachings of Jesus have been mostly misunderstood and "hijacked" by the Roman Empire with an institutional framework. I would also agree that there are many similarities in the teachings of Jesus to Buddhism, particularly when you look into the more advanced tantric or "dzogchen like" practices (this point has been discussed in the past). But, regarding you point... "Biblical Christianity sees people as tripartite: Body (Soma in Greek), Soul (Pseehee in Greek) and Spirit (Pnevma in Greek). Furthermore, the transformation of a "person" happens by the transformation of the mind (Noos in Greek) and not by the transformation of the body or of the persons spirit since that is taken as already changed." Where do you find support for the tripartite concept in the teachings of Jesus? This seems to be a more Greek/gnostic position. Additionally, the concept of the "Trinity" is found now where in the gospels (or words of Jesus) and was added by the Catholic Church around 300A.D. Thanks, Jeff

Hi Nungali, I think you are mixing different concepts regarding the blood and such sacrificing on the altar with the Levitiicus reference. I think the preceding verses put it in context... And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, saying, What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the Lord before the tabernacle of the Lord; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people: To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the Lord. And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the Lord. And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations. And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the Lord; even that man shall be cut off from among his people. And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. (‭Leviticus‬ ‭17‬:‭1-10‬ KJV) To me, what Jesus is describing fits much better with this passage... John 7:37-38 37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. That "living water" is the energy/light/power of the Holy Spirit. Best wishes.

There have been a few threads lately that have touched on signposts or stages of Enlightenment. Many will say that it is all indescribable, and ancient texts are open to vast differences of interpretation. While much of the path is beyond mind and words, at each “level” there are changes/things that everyone can understand. It is also not the same for everyone, but the following stages are a common progression. The following information is compiled from discussions with 4 self-declared “enlightened” individuals, 2 primordial (Dzogchen-like) masters and my own experience. Normal State – Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more) threads/dialogs of thought jumping around. Temporary One Thread – In meditation, one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it). Temporary quiet mind – One can begin to see/trace thoughts. Stable quiet meditation – One can perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences. Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – One begins to “see themselves” doing things. An example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can’t stop yourself. Quiet mind in life – Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop yourself from getting angry. Calm mind – No real thoughts unless there is something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. (McKenna books 1&2). Often described as nothingness. Many stop here and declare victory. Noticing Oneness – Something “tickles” the calm mind. Curiosity returns. (McKenna book 3). Begin to break beyond the local body-mind. See Oneness – Feels like every soul is inside you. Begin integration with existence. Oneness – Can feel everyone and everything. Begin building rainbow/light body. At this level, a master can send mind-to-mind knowledge/transmissions and do lots of stuff. Oneness beyond time – Can perceive parallel realities and beyond time. Primordial State – Level of Prophets/Buddhas. Completion of rainbow/light body. Integration with God/Existence/Emptiness. Depending on your perspective, gone or do whatever you want. I hope you find this useful (or at least interesting ). Happy to discuss. Enjoy the moment (and the week).

Hi IntuitiveWanderer, What you are describing as void is commonly called "calm or quiet mind" in buddhism. It fits with the above quote from the Lankavatara sutra (a Zen sutra). In Zen, there is often the concept of two-fold emptiness. The first fold is "emptiness of self" and relates to the quiet mind. The second fold is the "emptiness of ultimate reality" which is related to what I was describing. Best regards, Jeff

Hi MooNiNite, At that stage, the mind is now quiet and hence sort of past the point of "suffering" as there is no more mental dialogue going on. That stage is actually very common to get stuck at and the Buddha actually warns about it in the Lankavatara sutra... "The exalted state of self-realisation as it relates to an earnest disciple is a state of mental concentration in which he seeks to indentify himself with Noble Wisdom. In that effort he must seek to annihilate all vagrant thoughts and notions belonging to the externality of things, and all ideas of individuality and generality, of suffering and impermanence, and cultivate the noblest ideas of egolessness and emptiness and imagelessness; thus will he attain a realisation of truth that is free from passion and is ever serene. When this active effort at mental concentration is succesful it is followed by a more passive, receptive state of Samadhi in which the earnest disciple will enter into the blissful abode of Noble Wisdom and experience its consumations in the transformations of Samapatti. This is an earnest disciple's first experience of the exalted state of realisation, but as yet there is no discarding of habit-energy nor escaping from the transformation of death. Having attained this exalted and blissful state of realisation as far as it can be attained by disciples, the Bodhisattva must not give himself up to the enjoyment of its bliss, for that would mean cessation, but should think compassionately of other beings and keep ever fresh his original vows; he should never let himself rest nor exert himself in the bliss of the Samadhis. But, Mahamati, as earnest disciples go on trying to advance on the path that leads to full realization. " Best wishes, Jeff

Hi IntuitiveWanderer, If it is "void" in an Zen sense, then there are no "arisings" and hence no lights or sounds. If you don't like my earlier descriptions, here is one that includes the 10 Bhumi's of classical Buddhist/Zen thought. Here we go... 1 Normal State – Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more) threads/dialogs of thought jumping around. Nothing is usually noticed regarding “energy”. Sometimes sense of hot/cold. 2 Temporary One Thread – In meditation, one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it) and it often begin to feel like tingles or vibrations in the body. 3 Temporary quiet mind – One can begin to see/trace thoughts. Can feel the “movement” of energy and notice chakras. 4 Stable quiet meditation – One can perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences. Begin to notice “obstructions” in the flow of energy. Feel/see chakras in energy body. With practice, can begin to see auras. 5 Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – One begins to “see themselves” doing things. An example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can’t stop yourself. Significant control over energy flows. Become more resistant to sickness. 6 Quiet mind in life – Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop yourself from getting angry. All chakras open. The chakras start to “merge”. Less distinct chakra feeling. Can consciously perceive energy in others and surroundings. 7 Calm mind – No real thoughts unless there is something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. Body/mind energy field integrates and collapses. No meaningful energy feeling. Often described as nothingness or perceiving "consciousness/awareness". Many stop here and declare victory. 8 Noticing Oneness – Something “tickles” the calm mind. Curiosity returns. Begin to break beyond the local body-mind. Begin to perceive “light” (spiritual/cosmic/existence) energy. Energy body feels like every cell is vibrating in harmony. Level of "soul", in Christian/Islamic terms. Also, called the first bhumi 1. Great Joy: It is said that being close to enlightenment and seeing the benefit for all sentient beings, one achieves great joy, hence the name. In this bhūmi the bodhisattvas practice all perfections (pāramitās), but especially emphasizing generosity (dāna). 9 (2. Stainless): In accomplishing the second bhūmi, the bodhisattva is free from the stains of immorality, therefore, this bhūmi is named "stainless". The emphasized perfection is moral discipline (śīla). 10 (3. Luminous): The third bhūmi is named "luminous", because, for a bodhisattva who accomplishes this bhūmi, the light of Dharma is said to radiate for others from the bodhisattva. The emphasized perfection is patience (kṣānti). 11 (4. Radiant): This bhūmi is called "radiant", because it is said to be like a radiating light that fully burns that which opposes enlightenment. The emphasized perfection is vigor (vīrya). 12 (5. Very difficult to train): Bodhisattvas who attain this bhūmi strive to help sentient beings attain maturity, and do not become emotionally involved when such beings respond negatively, both of which are difficult to do. The emphasized perfection is meditative concentration (dhyāna). 13 (6. Obviously Transcendent): By depending on the perfection of wisdom, [the bodhisattva] does not abide in either saṃsāra or nirvāṇa, so this state is "obviously transcendent". The emphasized perfection is wisdom (prajñā). 14 (7. Gone afar): Particular emphasis is on the perfection of skillful means (upāya), to help others. 15 (8. Immovable): The emphasized virtue is aspiration. This, the "immovable" bhūmi, is the bhūmi at which one becomes able to choose his place of rebirth. 16 (9. Good Discriminating Wisdom): The emphasized virtue is power. 17 (10. Cloud of Dharma): The emphasized virtue is the practice of primordial wisdom. 18 Buddhahood. Best wishes.

Hi IntuitiveWanderer, So no immortals, buddhas or divine beings for you? Just the "void" of your own local body-mind? Best wishes, Jeff (edit - spelling)

Fair enough. One can only describe experiences... One cannot claim enlightenment... Best wishes...

What would constitute "proof" for you? Happy to go into further specifics in the chatroom some time. Best wishes, Jeff

Hi MooNiNite, This progression and the relative "levels" is now a little old and I would probably update components if I was to do it again. Regarding your comments/questions... I would agree that with you that level 9 would be the classic definition of "enlightenment", though many would define it as level 7, because at that level one experiences the "void" or clear/quiet mind. This is the "end" of suffering. I would also agree that at level 7 one is beyond "fear of death". Also, the levels are somewhat like a video game, but I would say more like "nesting dolls" of increasing clarity to "what is". Rather than each level really being harder, it is more that the ongoing issues/karma reside very deep. It is often hard to find such issues and fears without help. This is why most traditions leverage the support of gurus or divine/celestial beings. Taoist "immortals" reside at various levels within reality/consciousness. To go into further discussion, I would have to expand (and refine) the definitions of levels 10-12 described above. I would be happy to do so if anyone is interested in the discussion. Best, Jeff

I definitely see the distinction, but was attempting to raise a point on your definition of "self" or looking for some "self". Does the one who is "paying attention" or "causing the arm to move up and down" ever disappear? Is not that "mystical thing" beginning to be found when you move that "focus" beyond the local body-mind? Inquiry is of the local body-mind and happens in the local body-mind. Best wishes, Jeff

So everything is just a "movie" in motion? No ability to "act" for you?

While all communication is a form of "energy"... To me, "negative beings" and "divine beings" use a completely different mode or structure in the resulting framework of "being". Negative beings add to one's local obscurations issues and fears. True divine beings "increase clarity" or effectively help to breakdown local obscurations, issues and fears. Or you could say that, true divine beings shine a bright light on issues and fears, negative beings build up the energy structure of issues and fears. But even contact with negative beings can be useful if one "pays attention". If they connect or draw energy at a certain point (or fear), then that can be a useful highlight to point out that one has such a fear. That is why many traditions describe divine beings with both good and wrathful sides to them. Best wishes.

Hi Lth, Coldish temperature is not necessarily a sign of a "negative" being. Most often such a temparature difference is a sign of a being that is "deeper" in consciousness. Also, while I agree with the above posts that almost always any percieved being is most likely a personal issue or fear being manifest in our own "mental space" (kind of like an energy overload), I did a quick check and found that at your current "clarity level" it is possible that you could notice such "outside" contact. If you want to meet in chat sometime, I could probably show you the difference. Just send me a pm if you are interested. Best regards, Jeff

Both exist and they have a very different "energy body" footprint. If one is able to notice/sense them, it is very easy to tell the difference. Best wishes.

Hi Additionnixon, Why not reconnect with Jesus? Sounds like you had a good communion going. Luke 17: 20-21 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Best, Jeff

In the moment, Karma can be dropped or let go. One who can truly help with such a blockage is "beyond" karma and hence not affected by it. Best wishes.

I think we have a larger percentage of the dead voting... At least in Chicsgo...

I tend to think of it as more going "deeper" myself. Not really any upward or downward, more just "increasing" clarity...

Hi rainbowvien, Thank you for sharing your perspective. I have found that at the level of the local body-mind, one has issues, fears and obstructions (e.g. Karma) stored as energy structures in the "channels". When energy is flowing, it "hits" these obstructing energy structures. This hitting process creates the perception of heat (or warmth) that is felt. Much like friction. If one releases (or let's go of) the issue the "channel" is opened up. This "energy vacuum" of new space creates the cool feeling. As the energy flow rises to "fill" and fully flow in the new space (channel) the feeling of temperature returns to normal. Rather than heat or cold, often this same process is felt as "vibrations" coming and going. It should be remembered that these are translations by the mind and that the process continues to repeat as one goes deeper (or higher) in consciousness. Best wishes, Jeff (Edit - wording change)