Jeff

Hi 4bsolute, The cold (or minty cool) feeling is a sign of going deeper (or higher) in consciousness. Kind of like you are not quite used to the altitude. As one's energy flows stablizes at the "depth" the temperature feeling goes back to normal. Then the process continues again, deeper and deeper you go, like peeling an onion. Best wishes, Jeff

Clearing Do not try to save the whole world or do anything grandiose. Instead, create a clearing in the dense forest of your life and wait there patiently, until the song that is your life falls into your own cupped hands and you recognize and greet it. Only then will you know how to give yourself to this world so worth of rescue. by Martha Postlewaite

With a busy schedule, try just listening to music while traveling to and from work... The key is "just listening". You will even notice that when you are just listening (and not "thinking"), the music actually seems to get louder. With greater focus, it can grow to full body listening... Best wishes.

The Gospel of Thomas is not actually in the canonical bible. But in a similar vein... Mathew 23 :1-9 (KJV) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

As Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas... 39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

Hi 3bob, Thank you for sharing (and highlighting) the text. It is a very important message for any who strive to build the diamond (or light) body. Best wishes, Jeff

On High Level Qi Gong as taught by Jesus... John 7:37-38 37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” On "Only son..." 1 John 1:12-13 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. On where to find God... Luke 17: 20-21 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Best wishes.

If you read the words of Jesus, he says something very different... Mathew 11:1--17 (KJV) 10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Institutional Christianity is often very different that what Jesus actually taught.

What kind of information?

The following is from the the book The Secret Surpreme by Swami Lakshmanjoo. It describes the KS perspective of the nine types of aspirants (or grace given by Shiva to individuals) who follow the path. I hope you will find it as interesting as I did... ................... In the kingdom of spirituality. Lord Siva creates masters and disciples through His fifth act, the act of grace (anugraha). This grace is ninefold and, therefore. He creates masters and disciples in nine different ways. The first and highest level of grace is called tivrativra sak-tipata. Tivrativra saktipata means "super supreme grace." When Lord Siva bestows super supreme grace on anyone, then that person becomes perfectly self-recognized. He knows his real nature completely and in perfection. At the same time, however, this kind of intense grace can not be resisted by his body, so he throws away his body and dies. This person becomes a master; however, he accomplishes the act of his mastery secretly in the deserving hearts of disciples. He is not visible in this world. Only those who are deserving experience his subtle existence. The second intensity of grace is called tivramadhya saktipa-ta. This is "supreme medium grace." The effect of this grace of Lord Siva is that the recipient becomes completely and per-fectly illumined, but does not leave his body. He is said to be a pratibha guru, that is, a master who is made not by another master's initiation, but by his self, by his own grace. He expe-riences spontaneous enlightenment. These particular masters live in this world with their physical bodies for the upliftment of mankind. The third intensity of grace is called tivramanda saktipata, which means "inferior supreme grace." In one who has received this grace the desire appears for going to the feet of a spiritual master. And the master that he finds has received the second intensity of grace, tivramadhya saktipata. This master is perfect. He is all knowing. There is no difference between this master and Siva. The master does not initiate him, rather, he simply touches him with his divine hand, or gazes upon him, or embraces him, and at that very moment this disciple, who is a recipient of medium supreme grace, perfectly tran-scends individuality and enters into that supreme transcenden-tal state without the need of practicing japa (recitation) or dhyana (contemplation), etc. Although he still experiences pleasure and pain in his physical body, it does not affect him, as his being has become supreme. That master who has received this particular intensity of grace, which is known as Rudra sakti-samavesah, is called Rudra sakti-samavistah because he has completely entered into the trance of Rudra sakti, the energy of Siva. He exhibits five signs which can be observed by others. The first sign is his intense love for Lord Siva. The second sign is that whenever he recites any mantra, the devata (deity) of that mantra appears to him at once without his having to wait. This is called mantrasiddhih. The third sign which can be observed is that he has control over the five elements. The fourth sign is that what-ever work he begins, he completes that work without defect. And the fifth sign is that either he is a master of all the scrip-tures or he becomes a great poet. Lord Siva, through these three supreme intensities of grace, creates masters in the kingdom of spirituality. With lower intensities of grace Lord Siva creates worthy disciples. The fourth intensity of grace is called madhyativara sak-tipdta. This is "medium supreme grace." Through the effect of this intensity of grace, the disciple reaches the feet of that mas-ter who is absolutely perfect. But because the foundation estab-lished in the mind of this disciple is not quite completely per-fect, the mere touch or glance of this perfect master will not bring this disciple to enlightenment. He, therefore, initiates this disciple in the proper fashion by giving him a mantra and teaching him the proper way of treading. Through this initia-tion, the disciple becomes enlightened but during the period of the existence of his physical body, he is not completely satisfied with this enlightenment. When he leaves his physical body at the time of his death, however, he obtains completely satis-factory results from the initiation he had received earlier and becomes one with Siva. The fifth intensity of grace is called madhyamadhya sak-tipdta, which means "medium middle grace." When Lord Siva bestows this particular intensity of grace upon someone, the intense desire for achieving the existence of Lord Siva arises in this person's mind. At the same time, however, he does not want to ignore the enjoyments of the world. He wants to enjoy worldly pleasures along with wanting to realize the existence of Lord Siva. Yet the intensity of his desire is only for achiev-ing Lord Siva's state. So, although he is initiated by a master and realizes his real nature as Lord Siva, his real self, and enjoys the bliss of that state while remaining in his physical body, simultaneously he also enjoys the pleasures of the world. But as these worldly pleasures, which take place in this mortal field of the universe, are not real pleasures, at the time of his leaving his physical body, he enters into the kingdom of para-dise (svargaloka) and enjoys all the worldly pleasures to his entire satisfaction. After he has satisfied his desire for worldly pleasures, he does not come down again into this world but is again initiated by his master, who is all-pervading, while he remains in heaven. Through this initiation, he becomes com-plete and realizes the reality of his supreme nature and he enters into the kingdom of Lord Siva and merges in Him com-pletely from heaven itself. The sixth intensity of grace is called madhyamanda saktipa-ta, which means "medium inferior grace." The effect of this grace is very much like the effect of medium middle grace; however, the difference lies in predominance. The effect of medium middle grace is that in the mind of the disciple arises both the desire for attaining the state of Lord Siva and the desire for experiencing worldly pleasures. The predominant desire, however, is for attaining the state of Lord Siva. The effect of medium inferior grace is also that in the mind of this disciple arise both the desire for attaining the state of Lord Siva and the desire for experiencing worldly pleasures. However, the predominant desire here is for experiencing worldly pleas-ures. Though he achieves self-realization, it is not complete because of the agitation he experiences seeking worldly pleas-ures. So at the time of his leaving his physical body, this inten-sity of grace carries him from this mortal world first to para-dise, where he enjoys the pleasures of the world. But while in paradise he does not gain the fitness to begin practicing for attaining the realization of his self. He must, therefore, be again reborn and come down into this mortal field. And from that very birth he sentences his mind toward the fulfillment of his self-realization. Although his life in this mortal realm is very short, as Lord Siva wants to carry him quickly to his own state, he becomes absolutely complete in that short span of time and enters, in the end, into the transcendental state of Siva. The above three medium intensities of grace take place in the field of aspirants living in the kingdom of Sivadharma. Those aspirants have the inclination to achieve the state of self-realization at least half hourly during the day and at least twice during the night. The remaining period they keep aside for worldly pleasures. The following three inferior intensities of grace - manda tivra (inferior supreme), manda madhya (inferior medium), and manda manda (inferior inferior) - take place in the field of aspirants living in lokadharmah, the kingdom of worldly life. These aspirants have the desire for achieving self-realization, the state of Lord Siva, only when the pains and pressures of this world become too much to bear. At that moment, they want to abandon everything and achieve self-realization but they are not able to, and though they want to leave this worldly life, they cannot. These aspirants have more tendency for worldly pleasure and less tendency for realizing their Self. But, as the grace of Lord Siva shines in them, in the end, which may take many lifetimes, they become one with the supreme being. This is the greatness of Lord Siva's grace - that no matter what intensity of His grace is with you, it will carry you to his nature in the end.

Hi Iain, Rather than a KS Practioner, like you, I am one who likes to dive deep, rather than read scholarly treatises. But while you may call him a little "paternal", he is obviously a true lover of Shatki. Also, my finding have been almost exactly the same as what he describes. The brilliance of his explanations (with specific details) is far greater than any other writings I have ever found. The man definitely knows his stuff. Best regards, Jeff

Hi Iain, Thank you for your comments. I agree that there is great value in the Siva Sutras, but in general I am a fan of the writings (and details) of Ahbinagupta as the cornerstone of the KS lineage. Also, in Taoism, one may develop a similar "divine guru" type relationship with an "enlightened immortal". Best wishes, Jeff

Got up to 7 today! Very nice.

Going in now if anyone is interested in joining me...

Actually, many find a good steak (or heavy eating) is better for high energy (kundalini flows).

Sorry, I missed it. Hopefully, next time.

Hey Cap... Seem to have missed you again...

Hoping into chat for a little while if anyone is interested...

It is not as popular as it used to be. Seems some of the chatters have moved on...

No on the mixing, the comments (and cross pollination) are my own. But, given the inherent nature of your OP question regarding the "soul" in Buddhism, I thought it would be helpful. Best wishes, Jeff

Hi Bob, I may have been somewhat unclear in my meaning in the above statement, as I said "first stage" relative to enlightenment. Jiva is Siva would more equate to what I would call the second stage in a classic Buddhist framework. This is after one has realized the soul, and is now integrating into all "reality/Siva" and in Buddhism utilizes what is called "completion stage" (tantric-energy) practices. This is the second half of the Heart sutra, void creates and is equal to all form. Realizing ultimate emptiness is knowing both are true and also both are equivalent. At various stages in Jiva is Siva (levels 1-6 in KS) it is possible to realize at a certain level and "assume" the form (or copy) at that level of the universe (or reality). Best wishes, Jeff

One must remember that sutra is an earlier (or lower) method, hence the text is for a more normal mind level communication of understanding a Buddha. Hence, rather than truly needing the prompting, it is a story communication device to point out the choice (or sacrifice) that Buddha makes in continuing on. The sacrifice is actually "huge". On the no soul point, since I am not Buddhist, it is probably not for me to say. But,... Buddhism as a path/framework is based upon first realizing "clarity of mind". Things like energy stuff are not introduced until clarity of mind is stabilized. If one is holding on to the concept of a "soul" or "self", it becomes very difficult to clearly realize the true clear light of mind. It is basically a clear mind only path at the beginning. As opposed to more energy (tantric) systems like KS, where the approach is to force a similar level of mental clarity with overwhelming energy (through devotion), where one becomes "nothing" in God/Shiva. Both, are first stage (enlightenment) levels where one experiences "quiet mind" or feels like they are "naturally responding" with no thought. In Buddhism, this realization is the first half of the heart sutra, or knowing that form collapses down to and equals void. Each approach has it's own pros and cons, but at the Shiva vs. Ultimate emptiness level they ultimately point to different things. Best, Jeff

Hi Bob, Since, I have always just been one who "dives deep", I don see the problem with leveraging useful descriptions, but I will endeavor to stay more tradition "pure" on the points. What we are describing is the realization of such a depth in consciousness/reality where one can cross over/ascend beyond the physical form. Such a realization is "beyond" the classic definition of "enlightenment" in most traditions. In Buddhism, there is a big difference between a Buddha and an arhat (enlightened). In mystical Christianity, it is similar with the difference between a "Christ" and the "realization of the soul". Also, it must be remembered that unlike the concept of "cessation" with enlightenment in Hindu type traditions, a Buddha maintains a "vehicle" and as such is still sort of a "distinct" being until it ultimately "lets go" back into ultimate emptiness. A Buddha maintain "cohesion" to help all sentient beings, that is the purpose of the bodhisattva vow. Best, Jeff

Hi 3bob, On your reincarnation point... In absolute terms, in Buddhism there is no "soul" (only emptiness), but in relative terms there is such a "vehicle", such a thing is the relative basis of perception in buddhamind (mind system/existence). I am sure it is discussed in other sutras, but the Lotus sutra goes into detail of such a vehicle and how it becomes a "Buddha". Also, on your "no takers" point, I will bite... The statement, is more like a pointing out of the "choice" that a emerging Buddha has to make than any real problem (similar to the inverse choice of gospel story of Jesus being offered earthly rulership by the devil as a last test). Maintaining "cohesion" in manifest physical form is very limiting. While not exactly the same, this type (or problem) is described in a different way by Swami Lakshmanjoo in the book The Secret Surpreme. "In the kingdom of spirituality. Lord Siva creates masters and disciples through His fifth act, the act of grace (anugraha). This grace is ninefold and, therefore. He creates masters and disciples in nine different ways. The first and highest level of grace is called tivrativra sak-tipata. Tivrativra saktipata means "super supreme grace." When Lord Siva bestows super supreme grace on anyone, then that person becomes perfectly self-recognized. He knows his real nature completely and in perfection. At the same time, however, this kind of intense grace can not be resisted by his body, so he throws away his body and dies. This person becomes a master; however, he accomplishes the act of his mastery secretly in the deserving hearts of disciples. He is not visible in this world. Only those who are deserving experience his subtle existence. " Thanks for the discussion, Jeff

"To which I'd say if the essence of Dharma is already finished and complete the game only appears to change." That is because you are more a "Self" or "One with no second" guy. Ultimate emptiness is different and as such, there are can be unlimited numbers of bubbles of "One with no second". Also, as I said above, I do not know of anything in Buddhism that says that there can be no relative "being/soul" that can maintain coherence for a universe cycle. That is essentially the definition of a Taoist "immortal". In the video game analogy, one usually just transfers their "consciousness/soul" to a light body or they sort of take over/reside as a fixture of the game (which could be something like a mountain, star or even a being like an angel/god). Best, Jeff