Jeff

Good advice is timeless.

From the dhammapada... (Chapter 26. The True Master) Wanting nothing With all your heart Stop the stream. When the world dissolves Everything becomes clear. Go beyond This way or that way, To the farther shore Where the world dissolves And everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore And the father shore, Beyond the beyond, Where there is no beginning, No end.

The two do not directly relate. The easiest way to think about it as two different "layers" in the energy body. Dan tiens focus on energy of the body. Chakras focus on energy of the "mind". Best wishes.

Very nice move.

Going in too for a while this morning...

I agree that it is very difficult to find a true "living" guru. But, they do exist in the world and often where you least expect them. Also, I have found that often we find not our "ultimate" guru in the world, but that the world provides us the guru for the next step on our path. But, when you are ready and find your true guru, your heart will leap & sing, and you will know. A true guru connects at the heart. (And for those who notice light/energy flows, you will be blown away) Best wishes.

A guru is definitely a representation of inherent Buddha nature, but a realized guru is also a physical manifestation of Buddha nature. Such a manifestation radiates and touches the heart, making such a guru bond much easier.

Yes, with such a path... the guru is the path/way.

Completely agree. Also, when one truly forms a bond with a guru, it is not a simple "I kind of like and respect this person" kind of feeling. It is a powerful energetic bond and connection, love and devotion as words do not really do it justice.

Your statement makes a lot of sense. To form such a bond, once must have a very meaningful level of clarity (and an open heart).

30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him." This one is definitely harder to understand with just the words given. It is important to remember that like most traditions, the words of the Gospel of Thomas were meant to taught it the environment of a teacher. The verse is specifically focused on the deeper layers of mind/consciousness. As one dives deeper into consciousness/mind, one starts to see and experience "divine beings". Many traditions even have astral schools were one can learn in grow. The first sentence is pointing stating that though it is a lofty realm, it is not "it" or as Jesus says "one with the Father". It is still the realm of mind/consciousness. The second sentence points to the "bridal chamber" as described in other verses. Rather than two separate people, Jesus is pointing to the two "aspects" of a person that become one in the bridal chamber, and that he is "there" to help and support. The point is also touched on in verse 106... 106. Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move." A child of Adam is also a "son of God". Best wishes.

Thank you for the excellent description. To often Dzogchen is implied as Buddhist and often taught that way. Many traditions, have such a "primordial" approach.

Hi asunthatneversets, The meaning/realization of the emptiness described in the Heart Sutra is primordial. But, the definition is broken into various components as in the Dzogchen definition of base (void, essence and energy). Similarly, I was not talking about emptiness, but only the realization of the first part of the Heart Sutra (Form=Void). The realization of emptiness requires the additional second half of the equation (Void=Form) and the realization that both are really the same thing (which gives you "light" or essence). Best wishes, Jeff

That is an excellent description of how a god (in consciousness/mind) is formed. But, nirvikalpa samadhi is better described as the void (the way I used it in the other thread). It is the state of mind/consciousness with zero arising or activity. There is nothing to percieve in nirvikalpa samadhi. This state can be experienced with the realization of the first half of the heart sutra (Form = Void). The experience is helpful with the realization of the emptiness of self, but it is not yet primordial.

Dropping in too...

Definitely. You jinxed it... But then you have always had a weakness for things like that...

Hi Clarity, "but that won't resolve your weakness around attacking, insulting, and lording it over others." is definitely a judgement. There is no "neutrality" in that statement. Best wishes, Jeff

Sorry to hear that you would not take me up on the deal, but thanks for the discussion anyways. Also, I will still have to disagree with you on the "dualistic model" point. In the end, nothing but emptiness (or whatever you want to call it).

Thank you for your description. I would definitely agree that there is no difference between self and external to self, but I find it very rare when one does not have a difference in the actual realization of the aspects. The challenge is that much of the percieved separation with something like a "tree" or "rock" is not normally in conscious parts of "mind". Hence, the importance of a guru or divine partner (completion stage practices) to help release those obstructions.

Thank you very much for the kind and gracious (& gentlemanly) words. Best regards, Jeff

Never had a thread named after me before... Best wishes.

Hi gatito, If you take another look, I think you will see that I said a buddha = Ishwara (not Brahman). Also, I will make you a deal... If you will read the Lankavatara Sutra, I will read a Greg Goode book. Jeff

Excellent point... But, we are the true members of the Taobums... And great honor is at stake! Best wishes and great clarity to all.

Since we are now safely back on "hard ice" with some buddhism... Reading the link, I would say that Greg is only talking about a more limited "emptiness of self". Emptiness of self is only a preliminary realization. It is like a clear and quiet mind. As discussed in another thread recently, it requires the realization of the "light" and the ongoing realization of "ultimate reality" or as the Dzogchen guys like to call it, ongoing "spontaneous perfection".

Thanks. I have not read any Greg Goode. As to the rest... Feel free to take your "theories" over to christian mysticism land... But while Emptiness = Brahman = God, Consciousness only equals the Holy Spirit (God in Creation/Existence), while Buddha = Ishwara = Christ.