Jeff
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Everything posted by Jeff
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Care to explain why?
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Interesting question... Never really thought about karma relative to wrathful deities. What are your thoughts?
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On battles... I would agree, but then they are subject to karma (my original point). On Terms... Nice. On Last paragraph... Agreed. You have described in more eloquently and with greater detail.
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Maybe part of our difference is in the connotations of the word "honor". To me, Buddha would defend his teachings for the purpose of clarity and truth, not because he cared if someone thought less of him or tried to belittle him in a debate. On trying to use words like "God" and "Emptiness"... I definitely agree. Both lead to great confusion. Finally, I agree that no one can break the Tao as everything is (or is contained in) the Tao. But, that does not mean that the Tao is not also full of infinite possibilities.
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What do you consider "worthwhile"? In your current state there is controllable "peace of mind" at the conscious level. But, you will run into some subconscious issues/fears and you will forget your "peace of mind" for a while. Angry spouses or whiny kids are great for pointing that out. There is a lot more out/in there, but enjoy.
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Hi Kajenx, Sounds good and healthy, but it is not "unconditioned mind". What you are describing is more commonly called the "witness state". You are beginning to percieve the separation from your ongoing thoughts. Very good stuff. Best wishes, Jeff
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I guess it depends on your definition of "God" and whether you believe in the concept of free will (to act). From my perspective, all "self-aware" beings have various levels of clarity and free will. Karma is created by the "attachments" to the acts at both a conscious and subconscious level. As one sees/realizes past such attachments, karma is no longer relevant (but such a being does not defend their honor). My definition of "God" is more like "emptiness". And while everything is and happens in the field of "God", there is no point in trying to blame God for "stuff".
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Intent drives karma. Some such beings are automated responses, would not the karma reside with the person or being who put the automated process in place? If the protector has their own will & intent, with actions based on a percieved sense of "honor", would not there always be karma? I guess my question would be is there such a person or being that is "beyond karma" that is still driven by a sense of "honor". Is not "honor" a percieved attachment/desire?
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Sorry, I did not mean to distract from your original intent. I just found the topic interesting. Feel free to redirect the topic. I don't quite understand your example. How does fighting for honor (with no karma) relate to "sampling of say 10,000 various temples"?
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Thanks. Could you give me an example?
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To me, honor implies an attachment to some type of concept. With such an attachment that needs to be "defended" then there is always karma.
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Does not the concept of honor itself imply that karma has already begun. Best wishes.
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Hi Merceless One, 12 was an arbitrary number that I used in steps. If I was to revise it, I would now probably use 16+ levels. Also, on your energy point... I have found that energy and clarity are two sides of the same coin. Best, Jeff
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Is it not possible for the "true you" to be realized while still staying in contact with the body? Regarding the "puppets"... Does that mean that you do not believe there is such thing as "free will" or the ability to act? Finally, is your "true self" the same as my "true self"? Thanks, Jeff
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No. Twelve is sort of the historical limit of what the human form could support. Or, maybe a better way to describe it is that levels 11 and 12 should be further expanded in detail to create a more refined picture.
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Hi d4rr3n, Very interesting thread, thank you. If you don't mind, a question... Do you think that "all that you are" is only found in the mind of your human body? Best, Jeff
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Captain - Thank you for the kind words. If at 11, why not 12. Spotless - nothing but clarity... And deeper down the rabbit hole... (Format issue)
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Yes, very nice. Also nice to see some more activity in the TTC section.
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Hi CT, I am sure that you would have much useful to say on the topic and look forward to hearing more from you on it. I originally put together the list at the request of a friend from another forum. As my own path has been sort of non-denominational, I attempted to describe the progression in terms and stages that could cross paths. The delineations were arbitrarily made up by me into bite size stages/descriptions. Also, it has been a while, so i should probably get around to updating and revising it with all I have learned from hanging around here. Blessings to you also.
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I would agree. Treckchod leads one to the realization of the nature of mind (or clarity of mind) and sort of the "base". Thogal is sort of the integration and "breaking down" of universal mind into it's raw components. What remains is what is commonly called a "buddha".
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Yes, the light described would be call "astral" as it is seen (or translated ) by the mind.
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Would not Malcolm's statement imply that Tregcho is sort of a "prerequisite", so that it may provide the soil for which thogal may grow?
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While it is true that ultimately Tao/God/Emptiness are the same, it is not true that all paths lead to to the same level of clarity and realization of Tao/God/Emptiness. Each lineage, tradition or teacher is like joining a "club". Each club has it's own "level" of clarity and energy in Tao/God/Emptiness. People and beings tend to naturally gravitate to the club that is appropriate for them at that time in their development. Even one who has realized a "light body" is not done. Done is an illusion of mind. There is always ongoing clarity in Tao/God/Emptiness. Best wishes.
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Hi 3bob, Thanks for the clarification. Also, I would agree with your point regarding the "the One" and I think it also carries over to our normal "daily existence". Best wishes.
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Hi CT, Thank you for you insight and I agree with what you have said. I have found that it often easy to become confused about when notions are actually extinguished and find describing things like "light" in the OP very helpful. Many often believe that they are "done", when in reality they have only dealt with issues at the level of conscious mind, while the subconscious issues and fears remain largely untouched. That is why I think it is often helpful to discuss the transition of the body that accompanies such shifts. The mind often "thinks" it knows, while the body actually knows. A while back I posted a thread trying to describe such mind/body/energy descriptions of various stages. I would be interested in your thoughts. I would describe the point we are describing the difference between levels 7 and 8, with light being the "tickle" that I mentioned. http://thetaobums.com/topic/25866-stages-of-progressionenlightenment/ In it, I also hint on what remains, but I would definitely enjoy such a discussion with you (and others).
