Jeff

Could you further explain your cessation point? How is that the final point? Is that not a Hindu/yoga view, and is not sutra pretty clear on the difference between buddhahood and cessation? Thanks, Jeff

I think asking a master to explain the relationship between spiritual attainment and siddhis is an excellent question. A true master can/will explain how and why they work. If one says they are not related or cannot explain it, then their clarity is very limited. (edit - added can)

Good point. The light body is not something you "build", it is the natural process (and realization) of ongoing clarity.

True words. But, is it not helpful realize what one truly is, and hence drop all such limits of mind...

I would agree, but one must realize that "meditating" does not mean "thinking about and reflecting". Meditating means "residing in and realizing". Best wishes.

Congrats on finding your guru.

Hi CT, I personally would be very interested in such a thread a thread and the resulting discussion. I have always found your posts very open and thoughtful. Why don't you pick a topic and start us off in a new thread? Let us attempt to step beyond words and titles...attempting to drive into insights. Best wishes.

Not sure that I agree that "stranded" is a good way to put it. But, I do think that you have touched on something very important in... "Wise men of old gave the soul a feminine name. Indeed she is female in her nature as well. She even has her womb." One's soul is often the opposite sex of one's physical body. For a male to "realize", they must to come to know both sides of their nature (same and opposite for a woman). The womb is where the "higher being" is "created". Best wishes.

Why not just describe it in your own words?

Or... A Master sending transmission to all past and future incarnations of themself...

For me, the easiest way to think about it is that each true "lineage" is a particular light/energy stream. When you join or attach to that particular stream (or club), the light/energy flows through. That light carries with it the power (or abilities) relative to the realization level of the lineage. As one clears away the obstructions, they have increasing access to that light stream. A high level master can transmit through any medium (including none). The issue is really more in the perception of the receiver. The receiver subconsciously believes that energy or transmission is more powerful in person and that mental "belief" makes it true form them. Ultimately, things like distance are just a perception of mind.

A master can share presence in "oneness" and transfer all that they are (really more all that they are not). If the receiver truly surrenders and accept it, they can go all the way to the level of the master. But, that ability of surrender is infinitely rare. More often, the receiver returns to the their normal patterns and the mental energy structure re-establishs in a couple days. This is why many want to stay in the presence of a true master, as the ongoing "barrage" helps to continually break down the energy structures over time. Working issue by issue.

Best wishes and enjoy the moment.

Thanks for the links. Enjoy the day.

29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty." I think this is an interesting and profound verse in which he is describing our situation. For me, the description parallels verse 50... 50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'" It could be described we are "beings of light" or "children of God" and it is amazing that we manifest (or take) physical form. But, when we find our way back home, that is truly amazing and wonderful. And anyone who has realized that motion = rest and rest = motion, will discover the "kingdom of God". (edit - font change)

Hi 9th, I am also somewhat confused about the direction of this side discussion... As you stated about the dynamics... In my post, I was specifically trying to make the point that the Gospel of Thomas does not support such master/slave dynamics (and provide supporting details). I was not trying to imply that you think that it does. In your words, you are describing in "general" and I am presenting my opinion on the "specific", as we are describing in this thread. Additionally, I was saying that it would be nice if you would join us in the discussion. And, as we go through the Gospel of Thomas, I believe that you (and the thread readers in general) will move from the "may or may not" position.

A cold chest can often relate to sort of diving into deeper aspects of consciousness. It open feels cool (or minty) until one builds up the necessary energy flow for that level of consciousness (then the process starts all over again). Sounds like good things are happening. Best wishes, Jeff

I apologize if I have jumped to any conclusion. But, if you join us in the discussion of the Gospel of Thomas, I think you will find that it does not advocate a master/slave dynamic. Additionally, I offer these words from the canonical bible, regarding the point. Luke 17: 20-21 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” The words of Jesus advocate inward focus and reflection. Additionally, his words are about teaching everyone to become a "son of God".. 1 John 1:12-13 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Where, those who pay attention and find the kingdom of God inside them, will... Matthew 21:21 21Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. Doesn't sound much like a slave to me.

Return to God (primordial awareness). Also, the thirst is for the light and knowledge of God.

I would disagree with characterization of it being a master/slave dynamic. A Christ is more like a divine teacher who shares of himself. The surrender dynamic is not about slavery, it is about "letting go".

I take it you did not find my analogy (words) useful.

I would agree. Too often people perceive it as a competition or "secret" knowledge. Some how we are all chicks that must break free from eggs. To me, we are all more like flowers in the field, we all need the sun, rain and soil to grow. Also, it is important to realize that there are growing seasons and quiet (winter) seasons.

This one is to me is the "clearest" of the three. Thanks SJ for posting. (Edit - iPad format issue)

I would agree that the Osho quote is interesting, but would disagree somewhat. In true sharing of presence/communion (or what Osho is calling Shaktipat), one receives what they are able to accept. The greater the surrender, the greater the depth that a master can take one. The challenge is in the "receiver" actually letting go of the underlying fears, issues and obstructions. Many just sort want to hang in the bubble of the master and not do the actually letting go of stuff. Also, rather than just being a one way flow, it is always two way. Even teachers/masters uncover obstructions in the sharing.

Makes sense. Increasing clarity (or purification) is always a helpful thing.