Jeff

Not sure that I agree on this point. We are essentially obstructed beings of the light. All true information, in essence, helps with clarity of the truth. When is clarity not ultimately the right thing? Best wishes. P.s. I also agree that there are a lot of "false lights" out there that add to the percieved obstructions.

How so? I have found that it is sort of "self leveling". That nothing really comes unless one is basically ready. (Also, doesn't mean that it won't potentially be a wild ride).

Many teachers say the same sort of things, but I thought I would share some observations. I hope you will find it useful (or at least interesting...). 1. The observer and the process of observing are not two different things. As you look, you will find that ultimately no observer can be found, and so the whole concept will collapse in on itself. But as this realization grows, one must be careful of not getting caught up in concepts of nihilism. After a while, one finds that understanding and not understanding are not really two different things, with both being just concepts of the mind. 2. The meditator and the process of meditation are not two different things. Like with the observer, no meditator can be found and ultimately the concept of the "mental state" of meditation is dropped. As this realization grows, one must watch for both chasing visions & delusions, but also it is possible to slip into laziness/stupor of the mind. The mind should become increasingly aware and full of "light". 3. Behavior (and emotional responses) and the one who behaves are not two different things. Again, one cannot find the one who acts, so concepts of disavowing anger and actions as somehow being separate will be let go. As one's clarity grows, one realizes that concepts of good & evil are not really two different things, and judgements are mostly just automated ego responses. 4. Later one realizes that what is realized and the one who realizes it are not two different things. Since you cannot find the one who realizes "enlightenment" or the boundaries of such a being, one goes from noticing "it" to being all of "it". The key is to not get caught up in either attachment or fears, which are the obstructions that blind one from all of "it". As one learns to just "reside", your immediate awareness naturally unfolds to become spontaneously perfected inherent clarity, and one knows that a normal person and a Buddha are really not two different things. Best wishes, Jeff

Thanks CT. I am a huge fan of Padmasambhava.

As a spinoff the Transmission in the Christian Tradition thread, there seemed to be some interest in discussing higher level spiritual practices and specific issues with various steps along the way. The purpose of this thread is discuss these topics. As a starting point, I think that it is critical that there be some agreed upon framework as to some concept of "levels" to spiritual progression. As a starting point, I offer up my previously described stages of progression from an older thread (http://thetaobums.com/topic/25866-stages-of-progressionenlightenment/). Here is the list again... 1 Normal State – Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more) threads/dialogs of thought jumping around. Nothing is usually noticed regarding “energy”. Sometimes sense of hot/cold. 2 Temporary One Thread – In meditation, one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it) and it often begin to feel like tingles or vibrations in the body. 3 Temporary quiet mind – One can begin to see/trace thoughts. Can feel the “movement” of energy and notice chakras. 4 Stable quiet meditation – One can perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences. Begin to notice “obstructions” in the flow of energy. Feel/see chakras in energy body. With practice, can begin to see auras. 5 Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – One begins to “see themselves” doing things. An example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can’t stop yourself. Significant control over energy flows. Become more resistant to sickness. 6 Quiet mind in life – Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop yourself from getting angry. All chakras open. The chakras start to “merge”. Less distinct chakra feeling. Can consciously perceive energy in others and surroundings. 7 Calm mind – No real thoughts unless there is something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. Body/mind energy field integrates and collapses. No meaningful energy feeling. Often described as nothingness or perceiving "consciousness/awareness". Many stop here and declare victory. 8 Noticing Oneness – Something “tickles” the calm mind. Curiosity returns. Begin to break beyond the local body-mind. Begin to perceive “light” (spiritual/cosmic/existence) energy. Energy body feels like every cell is vibrating in harmony. Level of "soul", in Christian/Islamic terms. 9 See Oneness – Feels like every soul is inside you. Begin integration with existence. Perceive/feel "light" energy and that it is all one. No longer perceive/worry about astral stuff. 10 Oneness – Can feel everyone. Begin building rainbow/light body. Beyond astral perception. On the astral level, the light body looks like a blob/ball of light. Can connect/merge/oneness to any being and send transmit “light” (energy/knowledge). Directly contact light bodies of divine beings. 11 Oneness beyond time – Can perceive parallel realities and beyond time. More powerful light body. Feel/contact parallel versions of your self. Access/effect Karma. Contact “higher” divine beings. Subconsciously feel primordial state/God/Tau/Emptiness. 12 Primordial State – Level of Prophets/Buddhas. Completion of rainbow/light body. Being "one with God/Emptiness". Depending on your perspective, gone or do whatever you want. Everyone feel free to comment, agree or disagree. Once we have a more or less agreed upon framework, we can move on the issues/practices part.

I think it is very hard to say as the true meanings of the terms have been lost to many traditions. The difference can be found in whether one is talking about the shift (or transition) to a light form or instead the deeper integration into "all that is". One is like being a super character of a video game, the other is being the support for the entire video game.

Welcome. Best regards.

To Realize Enlightenment by Nan Huaijin, trans. by J.C. Cleary, pg. 155 "...What people who have awakened to the Path by illuminating mind and seeing true nature attain is fundamental wisdom. But they do not necessarily have differentiating wisdom. They can see inherent nature. But to be able to function from inherent nature, and to be able to perfect all merits and achievements -- that is really not easy." Thanks to SJ for the above recent post in another thread.

Hi TI, Good to hear from you, it has been a while. I have "tasted" the AYP food and personally found it a little bland. I have suggested adding many different seasonings, but everyone has different tastes. Additionally, if you happen to still stop by the old restaurant, you will see that I constantly sneak my food cart into the parking lot. As to my personal practices, you can find descriptions in my many posts and threads (most recently on Christian mysticism and transmission). But mostly, as we discussed in our old discussions, I continue to constantly dive deeper into the "inner heart". I hope you are well. Best wishes, Jeff

Hi Oculus, AYP has been debated many times on the bums and you will find some strong opinions here. While I am not an AYP practicioner myself, I am familiar with the system and have visited a couple of their retreats. I am also friends with many of their leaders and a frequent poster on their forum (often in their other systems section). Overload comes from a build up of energy that is greater than the person has the current clarity to support. Examples of overload can range from feelings of irritation to energy spasms. The AYP method for dealing with such situations is to simply cut back on the practices. Other systems have various additional approaches. This topic specifically is one that I have disagreed with Yogani on a few times. While I would disagree with Seeker as to where AYP leads, given that it is a do it yourself practice, I would agree that many members mistake various states for something they are not. In the absence of a teacher, it is easy for the ego to believe all sorts of things about levels of advancement. If you have specific questions, feel free to post them, or if you prefer, you can pm me too. Regards, Jeff (Edit - iPad format error)

Transmission and reception. Male and female principles. Very nice. Thank you.

Once again, I guess we will just have to disagree. Attacks are easier to ignore than you think. :-) Best wishes to you. (Edit - iPad format error)

I believe that if you review my posts above, you will see that I have not stated such a thing. I have just stated that an energy attack will have no effect on an enlightened being. Unaffected by the attack and free of mental preconceptions, an enlightened being is free to respond however it chooses is appropriate to the moment. Best wishes.

Energy attacks are "forms" in mind (or universal mind). Enlightened beings transcend mind and are "also" the energy/light and not separate from it. For an energy attack to "hit", it must resonate with some similar frequency energy structure in the receiving person (like an issue or fear). A good example is with an insult. If someone says you look bad, if you are insecure on the topic, the insult can strike a blow. If you are secure and don't worry about it, the insult has no affect. One can understand that someone is attempting to attack them, but that does not mean that the attack has any effect.

Hi Cueball, Very nice quote. Thanks for reminding us that anything that appears (or arises) in the mind is subject to our obscuration (drunkenness).

Hi Chegg, I would agree with you that the best thing is just to "taste" the papaya. While we are all in (or of) God, Everyone's perception is different dependent on their relative clarity. Also, I would agree that we are all prodigal sons. But, not so many wise old fathers. Best, Jeff

Hi 3bob, Bad guacamole was what I meant. At the level of "mind", we are subject to to both self-induced and "foreign" lacks of clarity. Best wishes, Jeff

Hi Chegg, I would disagree with some of your researcher's of truth website on archangels. Archangels operate as discrete components, but know the are manifestations of God's will. They are more like aspects or parts of the infrastructure of creation/existence. Their integration (or nearness) to God is sort of locked in. Also, they operate in a range of "oneness" well beyond things like human talking. Any communication would be in the form of light transmission (direct knowing). As Buddha said, "if you see me on the road, kill me", because seeing and hearing is of the mind. It is easy for the mind to be misled by various astral level beings. Best, Jeff

Hi Chegg, No true Archangel would say that they are God. Also, my previous point was not to say that we are gods. My point is that we are "children of God". Maybe small subsets is a better description. Best wishes, Jeff

I think it is also important to note the words of the text "But only if lust and attachment are absent will that awareness arise." It is beyond a meditative state.

True, but also... Psalms 82:5-6 5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Matthew 21:21-22 21Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Hi Chegg, Ahhhh.... The old question of choice (or free will). It is very hard to say... in my limited experience, free will (and choice) exists, but it is relative to the clarity and perception of the being. Ultimately we are "children of God" and co-creators in existence, but most operate from automated ego responses. Best regards, Jeff

Excellent post. I would agree that if one is essentially clear, there is no perception of attack (or possible attack). Additionally, the concept of a shield itself implies that there is something to protect oneself from (and fear), and shows that one does not reside in the natural state. But, I would add that "light/energy" flows through a "clear" being. The light flowing thru can "hit" issues of other beings and cause subconscious issue to arise. The bringing forward of those issues can cause an emotional reaction (like anger). Also, that energetic/emotional response can be transmitted to others who have issues that resonate at the same frequency.

The quote is referencing beyond male-female energetic tantra. When one has balanced transmission and receiving (male and female), intent and flow is merged. Sort of like pure or raw emptiness. One then permeates or integrates it into the body. The body is a mapping into all existence.

Hi Goatguy, Thanks again for your response. I apologize for the disruption of your thread. I was just trying to understand why you believe the Gospel of Thomas was viewed as a riddle instructional piece rather than doctrinal. It is not a position I have ever heard described before. Best wishes, Jeff