Jeff

You sound pretty wise to me... So sort of summing it up... You are saying that when one is in (or has realized) the light of God, they sort of accept the role that God has created for them and get information (or understanding of it all). Maybe even say that they surrender they personal ego to God?

So each being is an unique "light form" in creation/existence and when you are in the light, you have the knowledge of (or maybe accept) your role in creation?

Interesting thought... What is "light-based conceptual essences"?

Hi Cat, Here is an excellent quote on the topic... Namkhai Norbu: "The real state means we are not only remaining in emptiness but we also look at who is in this emptiness, and we discover that. If we discover that, then we are in our real nature."

Very koan like questions... On the first one... "When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?" Jesus is obviously talking about the light of God. What do you think happens to "you" in the light of God?

11) Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?" In this verse, I really like how well the two questions that Jesus asks go together... "When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?" ... "But when you become two, what will you do?" What happens in the light, and when does one realize that they are "two"?

The real state cannot be created or constructed, but is the true inherent condition of every individual, which is linked to the relative condition of body, voice, and mind. When one has knowledge of this state, without effort, without being confined to limited sessions of practice, our relaxed presence integrates with our whole lives. Thus, our contemplation becomes continuous, and when one reaches this state the qualities of self-perfection, known as the "three bodies," manifest automatically, in the same way that the sun's rays shine out when the sun rises into the sky. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Edition). Never forget the "three bodies" part...

It is an expression that means that he want us to see through it (the world). The world and all it's material trappings is "death". Jesus wants everyone to percieve the eternal truth.

10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes." In this verse, Jesus is talking about a radical shift he is bringing to the (Jewish) world. It is a new covenant (fire) and level of "realization" in God. A new level of "truth" beyond the previous words of Moses. John 1:16-17 (KJV) 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Buddha knows the way... Ask him.

When you meet Buddha, he will be able to direct you in the direction of Jesus. Best wishes.

Apech - On to verse 10?

How about rather then sending insulting posts (that could be a pm) directed towards individuals to the pit, you just enforce a no insult policy and delete them... p.s. please also move this to the pit (or delete it ).

Hi Apech, Some very interesting concepts. So, with the seed swallowed up by the birds... What do you mean by going back to heaven? Do you think that those are lives that never had a chance to be lived? Or, something else?

9) Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came and gathered them up. Others fell on the rock, did not take root in the soil, and did not produce ears. And others fell on thorns; they choked the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on the good soil and produced good fruit: it bore sixty per measure and a hundred and twenty per measure." This one seems to describe the various nature of souls/spirits and their potential of advancement. A seed needs fertile soil to grow, so those who land on the road are pretty much out of luck. These are people who are overwhelmed my their anger. Landing on the rock is describing a hardened heart of blaming things on others (and God). With a hardened heart one cannot learn to truly listen to the heart (produce ears). Thorns that choke the seeds are attachments, worms are desires. In producing good fruit, Jesus describes two level (60 and 120). Pointing out that realizing the "soul" is not the same for everyone. That there are different levels of "yield" in God. -------------- Hi 9th, We are working through the Gospel of Thomas in order of verses. I hope that you will join us. Regards, Jeff

All types of alcohol? What about various types of drugs or plant based narcotics? Thanks.

Yes, I think that description also fits. But, we must also think of it in the context that the "kingdom" is inside you.

8) And He said, "The Kingdom is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear." To me, this one goes very well with the previous one as it is describing someone who has moved beyond the material (ego) phase and is becoming more fully human. The fisherman is someone who knows not to be distracted by the little things that distract in life and focuses on what is truly important. The fisherman is "wise", because he can now chose "without difficulty". The wise fisherman could also be called a "sage" and can go on to teach or be a "fisher of men".

Here are some quotes from the bible which elaborate on the point... 2 Timothy 4:17 - Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and [that] all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. 1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Also, I think the symbolism is also covered well here in describing the association of the lion with more "bestial" side of humans. Talking about God in the following chapter... Job 4:3-11 3 Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands. 4 Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees. 5 But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled. 6 Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways? 7 Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off? 8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same. 9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed. 10 The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken. 11 The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.

7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man." As Jetsun says, this passage is comparing our "human" self with our automatic animal like response side (ego). So blessed is the animal that is consumed by (or becomes) the conscious and aware human man. Cursed is human that slips back down into the automatic ego responses. There is also a deeper esoteric meaning to this passage. When a master/guru shares presence or energy with a student there is an overlap. The clarity and energy field of a master often overwhelms (or consumes) the student and can sort of temporarily raise them or help them deal with issues. Also, there is the corresponding concern that the master can also get caught up in the energy surrounding a big issue and sort of find that they get caught up in it themselves.

Maybe that means that is time to move on to verse 7. It will be interesting hear what people have to say about lions and men eating each other...

Not really a Buckeyes fan, but they were definitely robbed last year for their suspension...

Hi Seth, The issue is that various beings are deeper in consciousness then your normal state. The mind often processes it as cool/cold temperature. The same thing happens to people who do deep inquiry before they are ready for it. It is kind of like deep sea diving and you are not used to the pressure and gasping for air, but in this case it is more like not enough energy for the "depth". With ongoing interaction and experience at that depth, you will probably get use to the "pressure difference" and be less likely to feel the chill. Best, Jeff

I agree that this one is pretty simple, basically saying... Practice speaking the truth and treat others like yourself (don't hate).

Happy to discuss anytime. Actually, it was your original recommendation of the Lankavatara sutra that sparked my interest in the deeper nature of emptiness.