Jeff

Hi Mike, The meditation you are doing is effectively "body scanning". Feeling "heat" is a beginning stage of being able to feel your body-mind energy. As it "refines", the feeling of heat will become more like "vibrations". As you have found, the energy follows your attention/focus. Extended focusing on different parts of the body will result in different "effects", as each part of the body is related to different types of issues/fears. As a suggestion, don't focus too much on the head as it can lead to feelings of spaciness and detachment. Also, for fun... Try to see if you can focus and heat the ground below your feet... See what happens.

I think deep ruts are true for all of us. Rather than quantum stuff, I find it easier to just "face" why one builds the ruts. When we deal with them and let them go, we get the quantum stuff for free.

Every seen a butterfly "worried"? Is "enlightenment" a goal to be accomplished?

I would agree. Just being "in the moment" is an outstanding practice. Do it enough and one starts to realize that there really is no such thing as a practice. If your life allows, then beach and bird watching is great. But, in a busy life... Just "listening" to relaxing music can be just as good. The key is "just listening".

Then why discuss it in English at all?

Dear Deci, What do you believe is the best way for one to "forget one's feelings"? When one is constantly pulled by the "flow of mundanity" (ego stuff), how do you recommend that one even "notices" the pull?

I do love your flowing words...

Hi Deci, Thank you for sharing these wise words. Pulling unconscious fears/issues into conscious light is always good advice. And as you said, if one is truly open, one can learn to face it and let the ego stuff go. Merry Christmas to all.

Mr. Sree, With my question, I was asking for your interpretation of the chapter. All you have shared is that you "don't see a spirit". You seem to have your own "happy meal" to share, or do you consider it a Confucian bomb? I am interested in your perception.

Mr. Sree, You seem to see a hard and set meaning in the above words. Who is it that you see that... has existed eternally, can endlessly reproduce, between heaven & earth, and is a spirit?

Hi Vmarco, I had a tougher time understanding your intention/point with the above message, but thank you for breaking it into 3 sections... 1. As I have said in my previous messages, I agree that Buddha compassion/universal love can really only happen after one realizes emptiness (otherwise it is conditional). But, "oneness" is the integration of compassion/universal love into all of existence. It requires one to re-enter the world (to connect with everything). This is what a Buddha does with the bodhisattva vow. J. McKenna (books 1&2) are what happens when one stops with only emptiness/nothingness. It often becomes nihilism. Please consider reading book 3 and you will see that he begins to realize that there is so much more than just nothingness (human adulthood). 2. I would also agree that the absolute present thread is both good and interesting. As your link above shows, I have been an active participant of the thread. By your adding it, were you advocating a position? Agreeing with SJ? Regarding energy... Everything that exists (including percieved mind) is a form of light/energy. If one can see/feel that one begins to truly realize emptiness and impermanence. I have found that there are four main types/spectrums of energy/light. Body energy, mind energy, existence/creation light and primordial light. Body & mind energy is a subset of of existence/creation light which is itself a subset (or reflection of) primordial light. In Buddhist terms building the "body of light" is the realization/integration of existence/creation light. Oneness is just a way of describing what happens as part of building the body of light. Buddhahood is the realization of primordial light (outside time & space). 3. Glad you like the blackboard analogy. But, neti-neti is only the "erasing" of parts of the blackboard. Enlightenment is the realization of the blackboard and the understanding that all of the chalk writing (energy/light forms) is also included as part of the blackboard.

Hi Vmarco, I would agree that realizing the "heart" is not the same as realizing emptiness. Realizing the heart (or second chamber/bindu) is about the further "integration" of emptiness into daily existence. So I would also agree that, "Buddha compassion" would be after emptiness. But, I do not consider compassion (or universal love) as "new agey". Describing compassion and outpourings of divine love are part of both Buddhist and Hindu traditions. They can be somewhat helpful (or fingers pointing) in describing the "realized state". Also, as we have discussed in other threads, I disagree with your description of "light". It has nothing to do with the normal light of the "gross level physical senses". Perception of the true light is beyond the mind (or 6 senses) as your quote above also states. In addition, the six senses are really just the mind's interpretation of energy, so noticing energy can be a very useful tool in noticing the inherent nature of mind. Finally, I would definitely agree that the "fastest" path is just realizing emptiness and residing in the light. But most have too many issues/fears/energy obstructions to simply bypass the mind. Rather than your iceberg analogy, I would suggest a blackboard analogy... When looking at a blackboard, everyone reads the chalk writing and ignores that the writing is just a small subset of the blackboard. To "notice" the blackboard, one needs to spend some time clearing/erasing the board to notice that everything really happens on the blackboard (not the chalk writing).

Hi Vmarco, I would agree that the subconscious is just as much our "friend" as any other aspect of mind. But, as your quotes pointed out, emptiness is about "residing in the heart" or moving beyond mind. As you described, if one has unresolved fears or issues in the subconscious (or conscious) mind, one will continually be sucked back into the mind (or ego). But, as one progresses, one may access aspects of the subconscious and in essence make the part of the conscious. As an example, one may have an unconscious fear of death, but onced "faced", it can be let go (or not). The same is true with all the things in the unconscious. Something may subconsciously make one "angry", but once it is "let go", angry is dropped (gone). Additionally, unconscious thoughts/processes in the subconscious tie up much of our "energy",limiting one from realizing the broader aspects of existence.

You are covering quite a few topics in this post. When you say "drunk", do you mean energy bliss or do you mean more of a detachment? On compassion... If you mean the compassion of a Buddha, it has nothing to do with worldly concepts like feeling sorry for someone. Other traditions will sometimes call compassion "unconditional love" or an "outpouring from the heart". It is our base/natural state and found beyond the mind. As one truly experiences "oneness" with everyone and everything, one "radiates" it. A Buddha does not let others "walk over them"; a Buddha understands the true state others percieve and in compassion does (or takes) whatever is necessary to help others understand. The compassion of a Buddha is that he/she bothers to "re-engage" in the world to help others see the confusion. Those of lesser "compassion" stay on the mountaintops.

Hi Sinansencer, Sorry to intrude on your conversation with Dao, but part of "emptiness" is pulling the subconscious/unconscious into the conscious. Wuwei is the natural (and compassionate) flow, once one has "let go" of subconscious ego/issues/fears. One is not "empty" if they are still finding themself pulled (jerked around) by subconscious beliefs and ego issues.

Welcome to the party. There are many experienced practioners (of various paths) here. Feel free to post questions. Just be prepared to do a little filtering of the answers...

Thank you Vmarco for these wise words. Meditation is of the mind. True existence can be found in the heart.

Thank you for the excellent post. It is very helpful.

Hi TI, No problem. I will not make any further such suggestions. I just thought you might find the refinement to the technique helpful. As you said, it was just something I was taught/learned while playing in the light. Regarding my above AYP post... I think that if you look at it in context, you will see that I am suggesting an extension (or contrary) from the normal AYP process. I believe staying focused in moment is a very valuable practice. If one learns to do that, they realize that all of life is the same as meditation. Best wishes on your path.

Hi Merceless One, If your experience and order have been different, I would appreciate if you would share the differences. Many also skip or don't notice/percieve certain steps. Also, when you say that you have experienced all of the levels, as you saying that you are a equivalent to a "Buddha"? Thanks.

Hi TI, If you don't mind, a suggestion for your "cat in the hole" technique. Try to catch the thought before it consciously begins to form (sometimes called the pre-intent of the thought). A little further back than you described, it is almost like a little door to the "light" is opened (initiating the creation stage). With awareness, you can learn to keep the door open for a while. Your second technique is like "diving in", this modification to your first is more like sticking your toes in the water.

Hi Recep, Thank you for your thoughtful comments. There are many good paths to move forward and each of the "levels" was just an attempt to give signposts along the way. Many seem to get "stuck", unconsciously holding on to the local body-mind. As to paths, I would agree that "infinite surrender" is the way to go.

That they had an authentic lineage was implied. Why would anyone pick anything else?

Hi Anamatva, Do you feel any special connection to any of the Dzogchen teachers? That is an important part of any primordial/guru path.

I have received some requests for the energy body descriptions to be added. Perceptions of the energy body are more challenging to discuss generically, because everyone's mind "translates" the perceptions differently. In many ways, it is like trying to describe the color "red". Hues are seen differently, intensities vary and some people are effectively color blind. Given my "disclaimer", I will try to describe the various levels and be chakra/DT independent... Normal State – Nothing is usually noticed. Sometime sense of hot/cold. Temporary One Thread – Begin to feel tingles or vibrations in the body. Temporary quiet mind – Can feel the “movement” of energy. Notice chakras or DTs. Stable quiet meditation – Begin to notice “obstructions” in the flow of energy. Feel/see chakras/DTs in energy body. With practice, can begin to see auras. Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – Significant control over energy flows. Become more resistant to sickness. Unconsciously feel energy in others. Most chakras open. Quiet mind in life – All chakras open. The chakras start to “merge”. Less distinct chakra feeling. Can consciously perceive energy in others and surroundings. Calm mind – Body/mind energy field integrates and collapses. No meaningful energy feeling. Noticing Oneness – Moving beyond mind. Begin to perceive light/spiritual/cosmic/existence energy. Energy body feels like every cell is vibrating in harmony. Way better than sex/drugs. See Oneness – Beyond Mind. Perceive/feel light/spiritual/cosmic/existence energy and that it is all one. No longer perceive/worry about astral stuff. Oneness – Building light body. Beyond astral perception. On the astral level, the light body looks like a blob/ball of light. Can connect/merge/oneness to any being and send transmit energy/knowledge. Directly contact light bodies of divine beings. Oneness beyond time – More powerful light body. Feel/contact parallel versions of your self. Access/effect Karma. Contact “higher” divine beings. Unconsciously feel primordial state/God. Primordial State – Access primordial state outside existence/time. Complete light/rainbow body. Again, happy to discuss. Also, I would appreciate anyone's additional descriptions.