Jeff

We are definitely deep in word play, that is part of the fun. I like your questions because they dive into the heart of the issue... When hot tea goes cold... One has made a judgement that is so, and we now have duality on the state of the tea. Do you prefer hot tea to cold? Do you drink both equally, or does one become "attached" to the definition of hot tea? Judgement being empty (or not) would seem to be dependent on whether there is attachment to the choice (or not).

Thank you for the discussion and your very wise words. In seeing nothing beautiful in beautiful things -> Is this judging? In seeing nothing not beautiful in not beautiful things -> Is this judging? How can one describe something as beautiful (or not beautiful), but not see anything beautiful (or not beautiful) in it? Has not the definition itself defined a judgement?

Any opinion/position on the topic for the discussion?

Whether seeing eyes, nose or body parts as beautiful or not beautiful, one is making a judgement. Making a judgment, one is basing it on past conditioning and thus no longer in the moment (primordial state). Do you see it differently? On meta-states... Two questions... Are you separate from mind? What happens to mind in the base/primordial state?

Hi Marblehead, Thank you for your words. I consider myself more experimental than philosophical, but I would agree with much of what you have said. A few more comments before we move on to the rest of section 42 (unless someone else has a comment)... Would it be fair to say that your concept of mystery would be similar to the concept of pre-creation/unmanifest intent? Also, for the reader interested at the level of "mind"... Consider the words again... The Dao begot one, one gave birth and then there was two. Two begot three. And so the Ten Thousand Things were formed. When one declares that something is "good", then that obviously leads to the opposite concept of "bad" (otherwise there could be no good). Then these two concepts lead us to perceived differences. Next thing you know, we form judgements on many thousands of things and have the buddhist concept of duality. Do you think that also fits with the above passage? ( p.s. Hydrogen and Helium seem hard to start with... Why not protons & electrons (or subatomic particles), you can also extend the male/female principle to them?)

Chapter 42 is a very good choice. Since it is his thread, here are SFH's first four lines... The Dao begot one, one gave birth and then there was two. Two begot three. And so the Ten Thousand Things were formed. I like your concept of "mystery". Is it somehow different than manifest? Is the three a separate "thing"? Or, an example (the first) of how everything is created/manifest? Also, do you think this section also describes the foundation for dualistic thought? edit - added italics

Then we shall have to make sure it happens (no matter what the distractions). Do you (or anyone) have a section referencing the female principle that you would like to focus on? I picked the last one. (p.s. rest or return is pretty good, but primordial state is my favorite.)

So thoughts sometimes "just float by"? Your choice as to "engage" with them or not? As an example... Seeing a women walk by and thinking "wow - is she beautiful"... Is that something that floats by? Just trying to understand your point.

Does using a thought (like old processed food) truly stop a craving? Or, is it creating an aversion? An additional new "obstruction" to the flow? Can mind ever truly stop mind?

Then... Let's go back to the female principle. I would agree that it is very important. As stated in chapter 55 (and also in earlier posts found in Tibetan Buddhism & Gnostic Christianity). I would just describe it more as true "balance".

Thank you for this interesting topic. My observation has been slightly different. Cravings/desires (and resulting attachments) shape the perceived perception of the moment. Mind (with cravings) can easily overwhelm and define the moment (any good sexual fantasy can show you how easy it is to "ignore" what is happening around you). If one is truly in the moment, there is no craving (they drop). Craving and attachment arise though associating with something in the past or projecting into the future. Could you better describe what you mean by "rid the mind of ignorances"? It is a somewhat vague statement. Thanks.

Wise words.

I would agree that it would apply to the concept of physical death. But, i think your translation may be misleading as there is nothing that is "not-TAO". It might be better to say that anything not "in sync with the flow" or "arising from" is impermanent. Something as simple as the emotion of anger or the desire for a new car would be a good example.

In oneness, can you place your focus/attention on anything in existence? When you are one with something, can it be "impacted"?

I would argue that Li Erh's meaning of "union" includes sexual intercourse, but also has a much deeper meaning. And, that it is directly tied to the difference between "realization" and "divine". The Tibetan guru Naropa speaks of the alchemy well in the heart practice of the six yogas. In the "completion stage", one first learns consort yoga and the balancing of male & female energies. The balancing leads to greater oneness through the heart giving access to true deity (or immortal) yoga.

Quite a judgement... Do you perceive (or believe in the existence of) immortals or divine beings?

Peace, Joy, Estatic and very, very quiet...

A very good and "clever" poem. You are an impressive dancer.

Hi deci belle, Please reread my posts above... I did not say that I believed in a "preset path" or "preset path of the wave". I asked you the questions, "Do you percieve there is freedom or a "choice"? Or, only the preset path of the wave?" to find out your opinion. As my posts clearly say, I believe there is choice. Also, I made no statement about myself (your wtf comment), but only asked you a question. Finally, no need to try to be clever with a Confuscious quote. I see that you do not want to discuss this topic with me. For me, clarity is a neverending process. Enjoy the weekend.

Your words dance around, but I believe we are in agreement. Rather than your "not taking it up the ...", I would say that in the pure moment there seems to be a merger of "thy will" and "my will". As clarity grows, the percieved options for that wave grows... p.s. Do you reside in clear mind or light? edit - p.s. added

Uncontrolled symptoms stopped a few years ago. But, the energy grows as clarity grows. Overall, my experience has been very positive.

I am not that familiar with Tolle's stuff, so I don't know how my comments compare. Also, on "ego death", it depends on how you define the ego. You still do things and make decisions, but there is increasingly less "ego prejudice". Less of things like irritation or anger clouding judgement. Make a decision and move forward, no real second guessing. On length of time, it depends on how you define Kundalini and how you define "done". But, in general, the concept of "done" is a choice. I continue to be curious and watch the mystery unfold (so... No done for me...).

Yes, I have been going through the Kundalini process for a long time. But, rather than an "energy process", it is more that as obstructions are released, the energy flows more freely. The energy is always there, but one tends to notice it more easily as it "rubs up against" issues. Suppression is avoidance and does not work. It is more about letting go. The key is staying focused in the moment. Focused in the moment one can "see" things like anger. The "ego" is more like an autopilot responding to the past or worrying about the future. Truly being in the present...things like desires, just naturally drop. The more you open and let go, the greater the energy.

I do. But, does one always have full understanding of the depth of the words? I have found the meaning change/expand as the mystery has unfolded. I do not know that my understanding is full. I agree with the "spontaneity without bias or inclination". But my experience is that one does still "act". Residing in the "flow" the options are "wide" rather than constrained. The wave is one with the surfer and the surfer is one with the wave. There is no attachment to the outcome, but there appears to be a "choice". Do you percieve there is freedom or a "choice"? Or, only the preset path of the wave? Agreed. I simply say... Always more obstructions to clear (or issues to let go)...

Pretty good site you have found. As you said, the integration starts in the body, but ultimately expands to integration with all existence. The energy just highlights your own issues/obstructions. If you can let them go, it is a wonderful experience, if not... Very difficult.