Jeff

Sorry, I did not mean to cause any irritation. I will stop. Just trying to figure out how "suchness" (or oneness) could have a separate place to put things. Thanks again and have a great week.

The meaning of terms like heart and mind depend on the culture and tradition. Sometimes they mean the same, more often they do not. Most often one quiets (or ignores ) the thoughts of the mind to "feel" with the heart. If one is engaged (giving energy to) a thought, can one experience "suchness"?

Is suchness the same as being fully present in the moment? When one "desires" that beautiful woman, is one "thinking" about being with her in the future?

Welcome Kev. Good to see you here. Enjoy.

If you don't mind a question... Have you been into the light (not "clear light" as described above) and back?

Thank you deci belle for this post. I see much wisdom in it. But, your words to describe dance around things. Can you give examples to help understand what you mean? Give a "feeling" for suchness?

Thank you C T for your words and wisdom.

Rest = Surrender (or let go) Soothed = gone (or just noted) Or as a direct example, Buddha would say "Anger is dropped." Thoughts arise or flow by, it is "your" choice on whether to focus on them and give them energy.

Many traditions support this description.

Talking is confusing.... Because we expect someone to be there listening.... Maybe, we should just smile...

Thank you. As you said, all form is energy (glare). It is something that we can feel with our heart.

Yes, it is yogic in terminology, but each path has the same "thing". In Christianity, it is described as the "Holy Spirit" bringing you to the soul. Tibetan Buddhism describes it as after the "tummo" completes it job, it goes back and settles in the heart. Milropa describes it as the beginning of the "completion stage". Also, to Sifu Rel's original question, no one who has actually opened the 8th chakra would describe what they are doing as astral travel. But, to the person being "connected to" by the master, it would feel like they were "visited" or the presence appeared. Was there something specific that you wanted to know about it?

I agree that the chakras can open in any order. But, in the context Sifu Rel is describing, it is really more of an integration point or completion of the body chakras. The seven main body chakras "merge" back into the heart (often called the second chamber) and then the eighth opens. It is really "different than astral travel" and the beginning of "oneness" at a human level.

The 8th chakra is above the crown and has a direct connect to the "second chamber of the heart". It usually opens after the crown is fully open.

Why would it be dangerous or require an immortal? Is not the energy available to all, but most just don't quiet the mind enough to notice it? Could you also go into "see its form in the glare"? What does he mean by "glare"?

Completely agree... But, that discussion would be better for a different thread.

I am interested in discussing the inner meaning of the TTC. I also think a topic on comparing Taoist enlightenment to Buddhist enlightenment would be interesting, but I think that should be a different and separate thread. For me, the line "Look with your heart, see its form in the glare, be at one with the dust of the Earth, simplify your nature." has deep mystical meaning pointing to the Self. Flowing Hands - Could you describe the deep meaning of "look with your heart" and "see its form in the glare"? I believe these two statements tell us much.

I agree completely that "formlessness" alone will not lead to liberation. All forms of samadhi are just experiences along the way. The hard work is the letting go of "obstructions/issues", which grows clarity (or oneness). On your disagreement on the golden body... I would very much appreciate your comments or any hints as to why you think I am wrong (pm or emails are also fine). :-)

Hi TI, Thanks for the informative post. I make no claims about attaining anything. As you know, my concept of "enlightenment" is very high, infinite clarity (or silence) and infinite energy. I am just sharing (and also learning about) some experiences. I often ask questions to see if others are describing similar experiences. As your post above shows, words require shared perspective, and meanings are often "lost in the translation". Everyone debating the true meaning of the TTC on this forum is a perfect example of that. Some clarification (or translations ) may be helpful... Nirvikalpa samadhi is not about "stopping the breath". It is about diving incredibly deep into consciousness. One goes beyond the realm (or layer) of form into formless consciousness. Since the "ego" is issues and thoughts of form, it can not stay with you for the trip. At this "depth", there is nothing of form (so no thoughts or cool lights). There is also no "energy" given, only additional clarity from "issues" or parts of the "ego" being striped away. Each "deep dive" helps strip a little more away. At the level of form, increased clarity does directly releate to improved energy flow. Stopping of the breath is the result of being so "deep". Also, many "pass out" the first few times diving so deep. As to "building the golden body"... Visualing and seeing things is a product of the mind trying to translate the heart percieving overwhelming energy flow. Because of their clarity, the one building the golden body does not "see anything". To them, it feels like cellular (or as informer likes to say "quantum") energy vibrations that grow to 24/7. The minds of others who can see auras percieve this overwhelming energy flow as golden (or white) light. Everyone have a good day.

Are you sure...? For the "creator", the believe would be enough to "form" the evidence. Also, this is what the "ego" does all the time. Your premise should be experimentally verifiable. Conduct some experiments. That is what the masters do.

Hi TI, It is just the perspective that is "shattered". Existence is percieved as layers or worlds, like thinking the "astral world" is separate from normal. Consciousness is much more like object oriented programming. Everything, from all percieved layers can be directly accessed. Just independent objects that we put together into a percieved form. On the possibility of regurgitating... From our past discussions, you know me better than that. On making friends with the "life force"... I definitely agree with that... I think you & I call her the Holy Spirit.

Hi ShatkiMama, Thank you for the love of sharing your experience. It is very profound and beautiful. Your statement of, "I know myself to be eternal", answers my question about your experience and perspective. As you said, issues like anger & irritation are just obstructions in the flow. Let the issues go and there is no automatic ego response to experience.

Thank you for your response, but if you don't mind, some followup... By "shared space", I meant how the retreat (or guru) helped you to experience the "egoless" state. Was there a "connection" that expanded into a "merge" with the leader or group? In essence, sharing a "bubble of silence"? Also, with things that still cause anger or irritation, since you cant stop them in the moment, are you able to permanently "let-go" of them after the fact? Or, do the persist with less intensity? Thanks again.