Jeff

Agreed. Life just is, only humans seem to worry about it... Also (hope no one minds), but I also like the way Jesus said it... Matthew 8:20 20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

A Sage honors his commitments, but does not feel the need to enforce them on others. A Sage gives, but does not expect/need anything in return.

It is always still there. Mind just gets busy and creates noise. Try just listening again.

Agreed.

Agreed. In a family, who really rules? And, is it as water, or as stone?

XieJia, Thanks for your response. What about possibly thinking about in terms of Ying & Yang? Water vs. stone(or hard & strong) in us? Or, maybe you are right, and it is just water...

Agreed. Also, pliant or flexible. Anyone have some thoughts on what the water is supposed to represent? Enjoy the weekend.

Beautiful description. As Manitou said, it is the "I am". Eternal and silent. Sometimes it is also called the Witness. Rest, but do not disengage. Always go beyond.

Along with anger and irritation.

I have appreciated your L7S's discussion. L7S's intelligent questions not believing you and your thoughtful (and useful) responses have been excellent. Probably the best discussion since I joined the forum about a month ago. Your ability to go on so long, demonstrates the "stillness" or "mental clarity" that you describe. I am interested in continuing the discussion, but I think it would help to try to move the discussion to "noticeable" steps for L7S and others. So if you don't mind, a few questions... By "mental clarity", have you noticed a drop in the number of concurrent thoughts threads that you have going on at anyone time? Many people have 3-6 (or more) going on constantly during there daily life. How many do you have? Is your "base" state silence? Do you still experience Anger? Or, irritation? Thanks.

As many others have said, "desire" originates from perceived separation from Tao/existence. Whichever path is chosen, the major steps are the same. The old masters give the same keys. The buddhist "Dhammapada" and the Taoist "Tao-Te-Ching" are the same food, just different spices. Organized religions on the other hand...

Welcome!

Thanks. Interpretations on interpretations of interpretations... Just nobody tell me that it was dependently originated...

XieJia, My "feeling" of the meaning is very similar, but I do not have the knowledge and skill to translate from the original. All tranlations (and interpretations of the meaning) are based in the context and understanding of the individual. Part of the beauty of the TTC is that the words seem to be written for consumption at multiple levels. Maybe both are correct depending on the perspective (at that time) of the reader. For fun... I have one difference from your interpretation... The beginning is not about losing "fear" and having bad things happen. It is about losing our childlike "wonder" and "awe" , our "trust" in Tao/existence. It flows from the previous sections of how too much knowledge confuses things. I would be interested in your (and others) thoughts. I also hear you serve very good tea. Have a good weekend.

Xabir, Thank you for this post. It fits exactly. Have a good weekend.

It appears that we have some big differences in thoughts on this one. The first two sentences are a good example. Wu When the people no longer fear your power, It is a sign that a greater power is coming. Feng When men lack a sense of awe, there will be disaster. Henricks When the people don't respect those in power, then what they greatly fear is about to arrive. Lienshan The people does never treat a fear as a fear (even when a great fear is on the horizon). XieJia People don't fear the powerful, for they see great powerful coming. (Death) Lin When people no longer fear force They bring about greater force ChiDragon When the people do not fear of the governmental august, Then, the troubles begin. and adding... Flowing Hands When men forget the care of all things in their hearts, disaster will follow. Half of the interpretations seems to say "bad things happen, if you don't listen to the government". The other half seem to be about "losing awe" in life and then bad things (or death) happen. I have a tough time buying that the key to existence is to respect your government. Different originals? Thoughts? Have a good weekend.

Xabir, Thank you for sharing your e-book. I am about half way through and I may have been confusing what I thought was "non-duality" with "I am everything". I had assumed that non-duality was the absence of me with a continuous moment, but others have stated that "non-duality" has no moment. Thoughts? Also, is non-duality completely beyond the mind (i.e. not even physical pain)? Thanks.

How many things do you normally think about at once? As an example, are you thinking (or worrying, being distracted) about anything else while reading this post? Quieting the mind makes it easier to notice the beginning of what you are looking for.

Meow, Welcome! Just reading this thread, I am very impressed with your ability (and desire) to maintain a focused goal with all of the distractions. If you have not already noticed, this thread is a perfect example of "you" and your mind/ego. Everyone has a framework of chakras/tan tiens, most just are not able to quiet their minds enough to notice. The chakra structure is a mind constructed framework, so you it is possible to "designer build" dependent on your beliefs/expectations. A question for you... How many ongoing threads (or voices) do you normally have going on at any one time during the day?

Yes. True inspiration emerges like light/energy from the silence. It can "bubble up" from the moment. No attachment is necessary. Inspiration is existence existing... Trying to inspire?...

I am sure it was they way I stated my question. Thank you for your response, but let me ttry to restate my question. You stated earlier that true enlightenment is the combination of infinite silence with infinite energy. I am trying to better understand the finite stages. Do you define "awakening" as percieving from the "witness" or "witness + non-dual"? By non-dual, do you mean the absence of I-ness or oneness with everything? I assume one can perceive from non-dual, but still have many "ego" issues yet to deal with? Once one perceives the "beginning" of non-dual, i assume it continues to infinitely deepen into true "oneness"? Hope I was a little clearer. Thanks.

Xabir, A followup for clarity. With your definitions of Thusness, by "non-duality", do you mean the absence of I-ness or true oneness with everything? Thanks.