Jeff

Why do you say that about the AYP system? Are you a practioner of it? While I am not a big fan of it, I do not remember anything specific like that as part of the system.

Very happy Sunday to you too. How do you see the rainbow body as a conceptual construct?

Yes, thanks. Did not seem to work for me before, but seems to be working like that now.

Agreed. Not a fan of the new activity version.

This is another one that has many levels to it. I will focus my comments on the more energy level. Also, I think the Feng version is actually the most clear for this chapter... SIXTY-NINE There is a saying among soldiers: “I dare not make the first move but would rather play the guest; I dare not advance an inch but would rather withdraw a foot.” This is called marching without appearing to move, Rolling up your sleeves without showing your arm, Capturing the enemy without attacking, Being armed without weapons. There is no greater catastrophe than underestimating the enemy. By underestimating the enemy, I risk losing what I value. Therefore when the battle is joined, The underdog will win. In any energy battle (or fighting with a negative being), this chapter very well explains the best approach. If fighting such a battle, it is sort of like mind to/against mind. So attacking another is like going from your mind space into another mind space. While egotistical “evil guru” types think they can over power that way, it is a huge mistake. As one goes into another “local” mindspace, you increasingly become more subject to the rules and nature of that mind space. Also, the deeper into that mind space, the more powerful (and rigid). Hence, the best approach is as described... There is a saying among soldiers: “I dare not make the first move but would rather play the guest; I dare not advance an inch but would rather withdraw a foot.” This is called marching without appearing to move, Rolling up your sleeves without showing your arm, Capturing the enemy without attacking, Being armed without weapons. Once on your own “turf” it is all much easier as your mind becomes the natural “translation” and mapping of the energy attack. As long as you dont get caught up in it, that mental badass demon thing is now just some energy wash/push. For the next part, Underestimating the enemy could also be described is you going arrogant and over confident (or more ego based), and in potentially leaving your base center, you definitely “risk losing what you value” (your own basis) and get your ass kicked. Therefore when the battle is joined, The underdog will win. No one can defeat you if you can continue to be like water (or valley of the universe).

Very interesting chapter, as to me this one is very clever and multi leveled. I think it is important to look at where the chapter leads. In each case it describes something like how the chapter is about the virtue of non-contending (or striving) and how it is useful to deal with other people (better connect with them). At a more energetic level, if you think about fighting, one realizes that fight exists (or is translated that way) in the mind. And when ones reaches the higher level ( or 3 treasures from the earlier chapter), you start to more deep connection to your environment and others around you. Often your mind will translate that new “incoming” energy as some sort of attack, rather than a natural flow. Hence, one should follow the steps as described in the chapter... 1) dont go violent or think of it as an attack 2) keep your mind calm and quiet and let things flow. 3) dont go ego crazy (boastful) with your new connections to others. 4) treat all of these new connections as the treasures they are, and learn to be the “valley” that can support the broader network.

The three treasures can also be translated as... Compassion - Open heart, which is the beginning of feeling energy and all higher states. Economy, frugality - of “mind”, quieting of mind leads greater clarity and connecting to all at higher states. Humility - Dropping or emptiness of individual self - beginning of “light level” and the possible formation of the “golden child”.

Welcome

Got it. Thanks. To me all of it would be an aspect of mind.

So for you, mind is simply data flowing, and awareness is the analysis and acting on that data? Also, is awareness what gives intent to do something, like with opening and closing your eyes?

Sorry, dont get your logic at all. How does closing my eyes show that I am not my mind? I used my mind to give the directive to close my eyes. Then my mind monitors what happens with my eyes closed. Maybe it is simply you have a much more limited definition of the word “mind” then I do.

So basically you are just defining mind as something just like the eyes. It could also simply be that what you call “awareness” is simply a process running inside the mind. As an example, we know that the mind keeps subconscious processes going when there is no “awareness” (as in deep sleep). But, there is no example of awareness continuing when the mind is shut down.

And down the rabbit hole we go... So you are saying that you can witness something without a "mind"? That you can perceive things without a mind? If so, I would appreciate an example.

All witnessing (and perception in general) is of the mind...

Anyone know how he died?

Marblehead described it well. You (and pretty much everyone) has many subconscious thoughts running through your mind that you are not directly aware of. When you meditate, and quiet your mind, you start to go deeper into your subconscious. The energy of those subconscious thought threads starts to become part of conscious mind, so your conscious mind manifests them on at a vocal level. All pretty natural. Some people would feel it as emotions, and some others may feel it more physically and get it more as spontaneous movements (or vibrations).

Like what kind of tests?

Interesting and effective analogy with the downhill skiing as compared to cross country. I would add that devotion is in the realm of conscious aspects of mind, while obsession is more in subconscious aspects of mind (where you just cant help yourself).

Not strange at all that you should ask Dwai. I was just interested in what your process was that you thought could be affected. Very sorry to hear about your reiki friend. Can see how that would be a little freaky. If you dont mind my asking, how long ago did that happen?

What is your specific process? And how do you think it could be compromised by an experiment with someone?

Yes, even "soul eyes" cannot see it. That may be why Flowing Hand's version says highlights that one can feel (it in the heart), but seeing is a manifestation of desiring (mind).

Virtue of the Dao is clarity. At a manifest level in the world, it is more commonly felt as energy/qi. Things like kindness (or love) is more of a local mind translation of it.

So your version is... In olden times the best practitioners of Tao awaken people to knowledge, to restore them to simplicity. Then for the contrast, here is my version of the line... In the beginning those who knew the Tao did not try to teach others knowledge of it, But kept it hidden. And that "hidden" relates directly to chapter 6 with... SIX The valley spirit never dies; It is the woman, primal mother. Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth. It is like a veil barely seen. (Hidden) Use it; it will never fail.

Really, seems like quite a stretch with your "deleting". You are now saying it is... In olden times the best practitioners of Tao awaken people to knowledge, to restore them to simplicity. The translation specifically states "did not use it to" and you are mentally deleting that part to turn it into a positive where they now awaken people to knowledge? This seems to be in complete contrast to all of the versions posted.

Dont think I understand your point? We have... In olden times the best practitioners of Tao did not use it to awaken people to knowledge, But used it to restore them to simplicity. and When the first Sage became enlightened and he became at one with the Dao, he did not try and influence others. One version seems to seems to say they used the Tao on others to "restore them to simplicity", while the other say the opposite with "did not try and influence others". One is manipulating, the other leaving alone. Personally, I like the Feng version best for this chapter. It is also much closer to SFH's concept... In the beginning those who knew the Tao did not try to enlighten others, But kept it hidden.