Jeff

A follow up from the same book that some might find interesting... It is important for you to know that in the process of prana kundalini, you may not go beyond muladhara cakra or beyond nabhi cakra. You may only experience muladhara cakra and then come out into ordinary life. Then again you will have to begin with your practice of centering. For the full experience of prana kundalini, whether you are a householder, married or unmarried, you have to give your full life to it. From nabhi cakra, the force rises to hrit cakra, which is the cakra of the heart, and which is experienced as being right in the center in between the two breasts. When the force reaches hrit cakra, it also begins to move and you feel all three wheels spinning with great velocity, you hear their sound, and you even experience the spokes that comprise their wheels. From hrit cakra, the force of breath rises up to kanthacakra, the cakra at the pit of the throat, and this cakra also begins to rotate at a very high speed. From kanthacakra, the force of breath reaches to bhrumadhya cakra, the cakra found between the two eyebrows, and it also begins to rotate. With the move- ment of bhrumadhya cakra, we have come to the end of the process of movement. When the force of breath moves from bhrumadhya cakra, rising to sahasrara cakra, sahasrara cakra does not begin rotating. It does not move; rather, it is pierced by great yogins. And this piercing does not always take place. Sometimes it is pierced and sometimes it is not, depending on whether or not you have attachment to worldly pleasures. This piercing will only take place when you do not have any attachment for worldly pleasures. And when you do pierce this cakra, then you become completely filled with bliss and enter into the process of cit kundalini. If you do not pierce this cakra then, you will only travel up to bhrumadhya cakra and from bhrumadhya cakra, you will come out and achieve astasiddhih, the eight great yogic powers. So what they are saying is that there are like kind of different levels (or "sheaths"). Clear one and then you can go on to the next.

Yes, or in my terms revealing would be transmission, and concealing would be reception. In taoism, they are the "Two" that come from the "One".

I think if one is trying to discuss Kundalini, it is very important to realize that there are different levels of Kundalini that many traditions do not realize. Kashmir Shaivism does a pretty good job of describing these different levels (or types). From The Secret Supreme... Para kundalini is the supreme visarga of Siva. As you know from studying the theory of matrikacakra, visarga [ : ] com- prises two points. These points are said to be Siva and Sakti. In the real sense, however, these points are not Siva and Sakti; they are the revealing point and the concealing point. Cit kundalini is experienced by yogins by means of concen- trating on the center between any two breaths, thoughts, or actions, between the destruction and creation of any two things. As you have learned in your study of the seven states of tnrya, when the yogin maintains his awareness continually in concentrating on the center, he enters that junction which exists between any two states of the individual subjective body, wak- ing, dreaming, or deep sleep. Prana kundalini also comes about through the process of centering. Prana kundalini, however, is only experienced by those yogins who, along with their attachment to spirituality, also have attachments to worldly pleasures. If your desire and attachment is only for spirituality, then cit kundalini takes place. Whether you experience the rise of kundalini as cit kundalini or as prana kundalini depends on your attachments.

If you look at the link that I provided, you will see that I recommend a more full body flow similar to something like the MCO. But, you could conceptualize that flow like a central channel. Once someone has actually opened the heart and there is some real conscious control of their energy flow, focusing on the subnavel area becomes problematic. It is kind of like forcing a car to only drive in first gear, which can cause problems with the tranmission. This type of thing creates the kind of Kundalini syndrome issues that you are concerned about. As my earlier Norbu post stated, a free flow approach is much more stable and clearing.

No, I do not focus on the crown, and it has never been part of my practices. Additionally, I would never recommend something like focusing on the sub navel area described in your post as a practice. Below is a an example of what I would recommend as a more foundational practice for energy.

I would agree. Opening the heart is the first major key component of the process.

Interesting stuff. Thank you.

Sure. Tummo is a completion stage practice. It would be implied that all such activity is for advanced practioners.

Thanks. So would you basically agree with this statement from Norbu... The tantric practitioner, however, is aware of how energy functions, and knows that blocking energy can cause disturbances to the body as well as to the mind. He or she does not put the brakes on the flow of energy, does not repress it, but uses it as a means for transformation.

By Tibetan Buddhists, does that mean you follow more of a Dzogchen path/view (and they don’t have crown stuff)? Do you also agree with Apech’s quote about how Kundalini/tummo quote on “This energy generates warmth as it accumulates and becomes an inner fire or inner heat (candālī) that [potentially] burns away the dross of ignorance and ego-clinging.[6]” That Kundalini can be extremely helpful in the removal of ignorance?

So does that mean that you disagree with Apech and his quoted link?

So then you are saying that Kundalini = tummo too? Just some different exit point in the body?

Thanks. Would you say Kundalini and tummo clear out ego clinging and ignorance when consciously directed? That it is very helpful. But when not directed correctly (or subconscious) it can exasperate “ignorance” and you get what I think you are calling “Kundalini syndrome”?

Thanks. I can definitely see your logic. But, is not tummo a conscious activity/practice? Or is it some uncontrolled random rising in the body? Also, from your post it seems like a good thing as it can burn away ego clinging and ignorance?

And does that mean that Candali/Tummo is the same as Kundalini in your opinion? Does Bindi’s link fit with your definition? http://kundalinicare.com/kinds-of-kundalini-risings-2/

From your link, is this your definition of Kundalini and the steps? http://kundalinicare.com/kinds-of-kundalini-risings-2/

To me, Kundalini is what people call energy movement when they are not yet fully consciously aware of it. Add a little mental clarity, and there is no such thing as kundalini. That is why traditions like Buddhism that focus on clarity first, do not have any concept such as Kundalini.

Either way, let’s here about it...

That one is easy too... Tao Te Ching - Chapter 6 The valley spirit never dies; It is the woman, primal mother. Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth. It is like a veil barely seen. Use it; it will never fail. Use it, as it will never fail.

Because there is a path to realizing the Tao that can be spoken of... Chapter 16 - Tao Te Ching Empty yourself of everything. Let the mind become still. The ten thousand things rise and fall while the self watches their return. They grow and flourish and then return to the source. Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature. The way of nature is unchanging. Knowing constancy is insight. Not knowing constancy leads to disaster. Knowing constancy, the mind is open. With an open mind, you will be openhearted. Being openhearted, you will act royally. Being royal, you will attain the divine. Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao. Being at one with the Tao is eternal. And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away.

To your dying point. Maybe this will help... Tao Te Ching - Ch 16 Empty yourself of everything. Let the mind become still. The ten thousand things rise and fall while the self watches their return. They grow and flourish and then return to the source. Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature. The way of nature is unchanging. Knowing constancy is insight. Not knowing constancy leads to disaster. Knowing constancy, the mind is open. With an open mind, you will be openhearted. Being openhearted, you will act royally. Being royal, you will attain the divine. Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao. Being at one with the Tao is eternal. And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away.

Yes, thought it was a decent version. I also like this point too as it also highlights some of the differences we have discussed with other traditions. This time from SFH... To become a good teacher always use the Dao first,if this doesn't succeed, words must be used.When words are used great confusion can arise,thats why the Ancient Masters offered the Dao and said little. Using the Dao is the hidden gateway. But, if one is not ready for such a "sharing" path, you teach with words, which are often confusing. Directly sharing is always best if possible.

This one is also interesting to me. As it points out of how a Sage is part of the world and experiences things...

Chapter 27 to me is one of the most powerful and profound chapters in the Tao Te Ching. In this chapter, it directly describes how the path (and enlightenment) is different than in many other traditions. As it says... Hence the sage is always good at saving people,Therefore no one is rejected.He is always good at saving things,Therefore nothing is rejected.This is called following the light (ming). Enlightenment is not found by simply working on yourself. In chapter 28, it goes on to specifically outline the path.

Dwai had a good suggestion. Will also send you some more stuff in a pm.