Jeff

I have also seen the "evil guru" energy effects a few times with people here in the US. Also, some pretty nasty energy things. The spiritual "con man" people are not really interesting to me. We have the same type of people with giant church ministers running spirituality church scams. My interest is more with people/beings that generate an actual energy effect that directly effects people for more selfish purposes ( what I call an "evil guru").

Makes sense to me. Also, once Jetsun gives us the details I think it would make a interesting topic to discuss in a new thread.

Actually, I would say that you are definitely not accessing the divine if some people could also stop it with energetic interventions.

Very interesting story. Who was it? I would be interested in researching it a little.

Thank you for your response. While we may disagree on a few points, I appreciate how your position is consistent and logically flows. It was also helpful to me to better understand some of the differences between the frameworks/views of Buddhist yanas.

Thanks for your response. So I then assume that the answer to my question is that you would not ever do something like merit transfer for your family? And for pretty much everyone it is a mistake (or arrogant or deluded) to even try?

Thanks for the response. Is that a quote or your personal view? Also, not sure what you are saying. Are you saying above that can’t really help another being, only really reduce your own personal karmic propensities? That all those people trying to transfer merit to Family members that Apech described are committing “folly” (or just deluded in their belief)? And by permanent stability, do you mean that a Buddha can do it? Burn others karma away?

CT - What about you on the concept of being able to directly help others by remotely burning off karma? Possible, and a good thing to do?

Yes, but that is something that the pope declared for himself and has no support in the gospels. Led to the selling of indulgences(buying access into heaven) in the Middle Ages. This concept was one of the major reasons for the protestant reformation. But, more broadly I would agree that there are similar concepts around families praying for the dead. The prayers are much like the concept of sharing merit help the ancestor move on from bardo into their "higher" next life (heaven).

Is that supposed to be a yes to my statement/question? That we agree about remote karma burning help?

To me this is simply saying that people can only transmit merit to others related to "resonance" or accepting of the transfer. They rejoice (or resonate) with the merit/energy.

Burning off someone else's karma means that the person doesn't have to deal with it themselves (hence bypassing). Didn't mean to say that you personally said that you couldn't remotely mind to mind (or energetically) directly help others, just that it has been a position expressed here by some buddhists (including Malcolm who says it is impossible). So I was simply asking if I could "count you in" on agreeing. So thanks, sounds like we can agree on the following statement... Methods of remotely burning karma off of others are a valuable part of the spiritual process.

Exactly what the question was asking specifically regarding your post on merit transfer... Your post said it was possible to help other sentient beings with mind to mind transfer/transmission. And also, that such transfer and help allows one to bypass karma. That one does not need to do it step by step on their own. Just asking if you agreed with it, others have said that it is not possible.

So with that smile, can I count you in with agreeing that it is (a buddhist view and) possible to directly mind to mind help other sentient beings, and also that it is possible to bypass karma...? Or, do you still believe that you have to suffer through the cold/flu on your own?

Ok, now I completely give up related to past discussions. This specifically says that you can actually help others (skipping karma) by mind based transmissions (and wishing)... Transferring merit to another person, usually deceased relatives, is simply done by a mental wish. Despite the word transfer, the merit of the giver is in no way decreased during such an act, just like a candle used to light another candle does not diminish.[11][12][13] The merit transferred cannot always be received, however. If dead relatives are reborn in a place that is too high or too low, as a deva, as a human, as an animal or in hell, they cannot receive the merit.[14][15] They must also be able to sympathize with the meritorious act.

Thanks. Possible to transfer merit to an ancestor / family member or just to those "higher aspects"?

I can see the logic behind that. If the emotion is so strong (or pure), it may be more likely that you notice the underlying energy of the emotion. Which would then lead to the unraveling of it all.

Seems like you are saying something different with the "offering it up". If you don't mind, who do you offer it up to and how do you do it with merit?

Deleted as cross posted.

Personally, I think it fits and I find it all interesting. In buddhism (as we have discussed in other threads) there is no ability to energetically remotely help another person. Additionally, there is the inverse risk that merit could leak (or maybe be stolen). Hence, given that view, it makes total sense to me that no buddhist practitioner would ever want to engage in any remote energy practice. Also, it seems to me that we have identified a major difference between Taoism and Buddhism related to path (and even the potentials of the path) as part of this remote energy discussion. Maybe no one else cares, but I think it is cool and have learned some things that I previously did not know from the thread. And, I apologize if anyone here took my questions as sarcasm. It was really much more like surprise and honest interest to learn more about a tradition.

Sickness is sickness. Believing you are trapped in a body and that body is sick, is the definition of ingnoring knowledge (ignorance). I am claiming nothing and certainly not something about buddhahood. Honestly, I didn’t even know that there was a container you filled up with merit as part of becoming a Buddha. Since, I have no such container, sounds like my path may be very different.

Again, the Tao Te Ching has the answer you are looking for... Chapter 71 Knowing ignorance is strength. Ignoring knowledge is sickness. If one is sick of sickness, then one is not sick. The wise are not sick, because they are sick of sickness. Therefore they are not sick. If you meant it as a specific question to me, I have not had a cold or flu in over 10 years. As my earlier post stated, finding the gateway is the key.

I think the difference of perspective is also to some extent related to the underlying frameworks (traditions themselves) on the concept of joint energy work. Obviously one could understand if you had a container where you store up merit and you believed it was possible to be lost/leaked or stolen, it is totally reasonable to want to protect it. Hence, in such a belief system, any joint energy work would be a potentially risky activity and probably not worth the trouble. On your point that healing need to be slow and be limited to karmic processes, I would disagree. That concept is not part of traditions like mystical Christianity and Taoism. The Tao Te Ching describes it here... Chapter 6 The valley spirit never dies; It is the woman, primal mother. Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth. It is like a veil barely seen. Use it; it will never fail. Use it and it will never fail...

No worries, I understand what you were doing. i just found the topic very interesting. I did not realize that there was the concept of such a container (and stuff stored in it) in Buddhism. I apologize if the wording of my interest (and relative surprise) came across as sarcasm, I was just genuinely interested.

An energy shield that locks in accrued merit and virtue? That mean that those negative energies (or beings) can steal your accrued merit? That merit is something that you hide behind a shield in Vajrayana?