Jeff

Makes sense. Also fits well with the words of the Tao Te Ching... Chapter 23 To talk little is natural. High winds do not last all morning. Heavy rain does not last all day. Why is this? Heaven and earth! If heaven and earth cannot make things last forever, How is it possible for us? Those who follow the Tao Are at one with the Tao. Those who are virtuous Experience Virtue. Those who lose their way Are lost. When you are at one with the Tao, The Tao welcomes you. When you are at one with Virtue, Virtue is always there. When you are at one with loss, Loss is experienced willingly. Those who do not trust enough Will not be trusted. Simply Trust with all your heart and you will find that is enough...

So being open hearted, yielding and trusting is not prudent? The world is not safe place to do such things with all the bad neighborhoods? Better to apply the mind’s common sense?

I agree that it not easy, but it is a choice... Chapter 76 We are born gentle and weak, but at death are stiff and hard. Green plants are tender and filled with sap. At their death they are withered and dry. Therefore the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death. The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life. Thus an army without flexibility never wins a battle. A tree that is unbending is easily broken. The hard and strong will fall. The soft and weak will overcome. Gentle and yielding with an open heart will overcome...

Maybe so, but I am good with it. As the TTC states, open your mind, open your heart, empty yourself and the monsters will become still... Tao Te Ching - Chapter 16 Empty yourself of everything. Let the mind become still. The ten thousand things rise and fall while the self watches their return. They grow and flourish and then return to the source. Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature. The way of nature is unchanging. Knowing constancy is insight. Not knowing constancy leads to disaster. Knowing constancy, the mind is open. With an open mind, you will be openhearted. Being openhearted, you will act royally. Being royal, you will attain the divine. Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao. Being at one with the Tao is eternal. And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away.

Yes, letting go of such fears and attachments in the mind are the nature of it. Seeing through the energetic projections that manifest in your mind. Simply “knowing” that such things are such are empty. Open the heart and trusting is a huge first step. But here is my advice for any who are being attacked by such energy monsters... Do not run, do not hide, do not try to build some mental energy shield... Instead, face it head on with an open and loving heart. No attacking energy monster can withstand the light and love of a good hug. Burn it clear with your love and light. Simply know that it cannot really hurt you. Such fear is all in your mind... And yes, this is the kind of thing our group likes to do.

Very profound point. Thank you. Also, for me it is same with things like shielding. The more you try to protect yourself from things “outside” or that could attack you, the more your mind creates mental barriers of “you”. To me, the spiritual process is about simply (trusting and) letting go...

Ok, sorry if I misunderstood your post. Good to hear that you have not had any such bad experiences.

Sounds like you have personally had some really bad remote energy experiences. What kinds of activities have you done where the group was attacked by unfriendly entities? Part of your Buddhist practices? Also, what kind of shielding have you used or recommend?

My view on it may be a little different than most, and is summed up in these two verses from the gospels... For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Romans 12:4-5 KJV) As others have also stated, there really is no “separation” all such belief is an illusion of mind. If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:1-12 NIV) Give and share all that is “you”. Let go of fear, break down the boundaries, and truly love all...

You are stuck in a hyper receptive mode at the heart. Maybe think of it like an open heart is a pendulum that bounces back and forth between transmission and reception. The mind tends to notice the transmission side more, because it is kind of like a sonar pulse that goes out and you feel the reflection coming back. When stuck on the reception side of the polarity at the heart, it is like you have a radio receiver, but not the transmitter to feel. Also, since you have opened the heart, you have started moving beyond the simple mental translation of the underlying energy, so you don't feel the mental emotions like most people either. My guess is that without the balance, the bubbles are sort of energy build up from the emotions. Like you are not releasing them (since you are not transmitting). Any specific tradition or religion that you follow? May be able to make some specific recommendations.

Sorry, one mind thing? Something I have said? With unified field, I was just trying to use a potentially generic term since people earlier were kind of mixing traditions. You could also call it the "light body" as opposed the the "energy body" with all of the chakras. I touch on it in my post regarding becoming an immortal in chapter 28 of the Tao Te Ching. The description around it is the "Being the stream of the universe, Ever true and unswerving, Become as a little child once more." part of the right up. You need to move beyond the local body mind (and all of the chakra stuff) to become the stream of the universe (light body). A light body is really more of a deeper refinement of view than the chakras, but from the perspective of the local body mind, it is sort of like all of the chakras merge into one larger unified field. Like you let go of or drop the bubble of individual sense of self and body (with all the chakras). I had always assumed that was just part of what buddhists had meant as part of the "emptiness of self", but maybe I was wrong. Maybe emptiness of self just means having a quiet mind. Is there really no concept of something like a light body in buddhism?

In taoism (Tao Te Ching), the integration and moving beyond the body’s chakras is called “being the stream of the universe”. In mystical Christianity, it is described like this... 22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." It is also described many places in Kashmir Shaivite texts. Very interesting to hear that it is not part of the Buddhist tradition. So does that mean that a “Buddha” does not move energetically beyond the chakras in the body? Is not the sambhogkaya more of a unified field?

For those of you who normally feel energy as part of your practices, I would be very interested to know if you have felt any recent shift over the last few days? Also, instead maybe sort of like it was harder to get into a deeper meditative state, maybe like your mind seems more busy? Thanks in advance for your response.

Here is some more on the timeframe and you can see it came much later in the 12th century, with the more advanced Tantra stuff coming in the 14th century. Even in the tradition itself, they say that everything was buried in the 7th century because the world was not ready for it. The Seminal Heart teachings became the dominant Dzogchen-teachings,[24] but was also criticized by conservative strands within the Nyingma-school.[24] The most important Nyingma of the 12th century, Nyangrel Nyingma Özer (Nyang ral nyi ma 'od zer, 1136-1204[note 3] ) developed his "Crown Pith" (spyi ti) to reassert the older traditions in a new form.[24] His writings, which were also presented as revelations, are marked by a relative absence of yogini tantra influence, and transcend the prescriptions of specific practices, as well as the rhetoric of violence, sexuality and transgression.[24] Longchenpa's Seven Treasuries (14th century) A pivotal figure in the history of Dzogchen was Longchenpa Rabjampa (1308-1364, possibly 1369). He systematized the Seminal Heart teachings[24] and other collections of texts that were circulating at the time in Tibet,[28] in the Seven Treasuries (mdzod bdun), the "Trilogy of Natural Freedom" (rang grol skor gsum), and the Trilogy of Natural Ease (ngal gso skor gsum).[3][24] Longchenpa refined the terminology and interpretations, and integrated the Seminal Heart teachings with broader Mahayana literature.[24] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen

Your kidding right? ........ For general purposes, Menngagde may also be known as Nyingthik.[3] Germano & Gyatso (2000: p. 240) note a similarity of practice between Chan-like formless meditations and Nyingthik/Menngagde: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menngagde Or if you prefer, from the Dzogchen master Norbu... Buddhism in its tantric form was principally introduced to Tibet by Padmasambhava, a master capable of miraculous lous activities, who came from his native Oddiyana at the invitation of King Trisong Detsen. With the aim of also furthering the spread of the Dzogchen teachings in Tibet, Padmasambhava suggested to the King that he send a Tibetan betan named Vairocana to Oddiyana.

Bit different than what? Changing over time? Research and Development.

My theory is that they were smart and adopted some good new R&D. Didn’t think they knew it all and just use the old texts.

The following gives a good overview of the timeframe and fundamental shift that I am trying to describe... ..... Transformation – the Space and Instruction series (11th-14th century) Early Dzogchen was completely transformed in the 11th century,[11] with the renaissance of Tibetan culture occurring from the late 10th century to the early 12th century,[11]known as the later dissemination of Buddhism.[11] New techniques and doctrines were introduced from India, resulting in new schools of Tibetan Buddhism,[3][11] and radical new developments in Dzogchen doctrine and practice, with a growing emphasis on meditative practice.[3] The older Bon and Nyingma traditions incorporated these new influences through the process of Treasure revelation.[11] Especially the yogini tantras were influential, involving horrific imagery and violent rituals, erotic imagery, and sexual and somatic practices.[11] These influences are reflected in the rise of subtle body representations and practices, new pantheons of wrathful and erotic Buddhas, increasingly antinomium rhetorics, and a focus on death-motifs.[20] These influences were incorporated in several movements such as the "Secret Cycle" (gsang skor),[21] "Ultra Pith" (yang tig),[21] "Brahmin's tradition" (bram ze'i lugs),[21][21] the "Space Class Series,"[3] and especially the "Instruction Class series",[3] which culminated in the "Seminal Heart" (snying thig), which emerged in the late 11th and early 12th century.[21] The "Seminal Heart" belongs to the "Instruction series."[21] The main texts of the instruction series are the so-called seventeen tantras and the two "seminal heart" collections, namely the bi ma snying thig (Vima Nyingthig,[22] "Seminal Heart of Vimalamitra") and the mkha' 'gro snying thig (Khandro nyingthig,[22] "Seminal Heart of the Dakini").[3] The "Seminal Heart of Vimalamitra" is attributed to Vimalamitra, but was largely composed by their discoverers, in the 11th and 12th century.[23] The "Seminal Heart of the Dakini" was produced by Tsultrim Dorje (Tshul khrims rdo rje)(1291-1315/17).[23] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen

Wasn't Tilopa 988-1069? And Abhinavagupta 950-1016? Would you agree that the shift in buddhism was really around the mahasiddhas? That was the basis for the change?

Thanks for the very interesting post. Also, can directly see the crossover from KS with the 84 mahasiddhas. Seems to make sense that the techniques were first developed with the KS masters, and then it was seen how useful they were in general, so then were modified into a Buddhist view/framework and a new approach was created. But, I think it is very important to state that the difference in view/framework ultimately leads to different results (and potentials) of the tantric process.

Maybe, but that could also have been a mind to mind transmission making him simply see it. Same as seeing the tongue and sheath.

Thank you Apech. Very interesting discussion. For me, the interesting point is the “effected by his psychic power” as it implies he made him see something in some form of mind to mind transmission.

Ultimately and theoretically, all preferences drop. But, you seem to sort of be asking if there is kind of like a state/realization where you can be stable with the Dao and still prefer something to some level. And the answer to that, from my view, yes. It is like you reside in the Dao, but still know and live in duality (10,000 things). But at that point, when attachments come up, they just sort of naturally clear and lose their power. Kind of like a deep issue or fear naturally dissolves with it. The preference is sort of "hollow" and is "seen through". Hope that makes some sense.

When caught up in cravings and addiction, one is based in the (local) mind. As the Tao Te Ching states... FORTY-SIX When the Tao is present in the universe, The horses haul manure. When the Tao is absent from the universe, War horses are bred outside the city. There is no greater sin than craving, No greater curse than discontent, No greater misfortune than wanting something for ourselves. Therefore those who know that enough is enough will always have enough. And Chapter 48 states the constant dropping aspect... FORTY-EIGHT In the pursuit of learning, something is acquired every day. In the pursuit of the Tao, every day something is relinquished. ... In pursuit of the Tao, one is always letting go of the those attachments, desires, and aversions...

Ongoing clarity is really sort of a never ending process. The concept of "grip of desires" is relative. On your cup of coffee example, I guess the question is can you go without it or not? If you can drop it, then no big deal..if you can't, then there is obviously an underlying issue. Definitely agree that preferences are what make us individuals, or a 10,000 thing. But, if you see yourself as that individual with those preferences, you are definitely not even the One, or Dao. Realizing the Dao, is not about having a preference or not. It is about the attachment to that preference. If you are addicted to smoking and cant stop yourself, then certainly in those moments of smoking you are not residing in the Dao.