Jeff

Romans 12:3-5 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. In the teachings of Jesus, all of us are "members of one another", and of "one body in Christ". And as the gospel specifically says, "think soberly" about thinking that you can do it by yourself.

I would agree. Also, I think this verse ties in exactly with the Romans verses that I posted earlier...

I see compassion in this context and the law of attraction as different things. Compassion is sort of like an inherent desire to grow/expand or realize. And with the realization of emptiness, it is more like a one way (or outbound) radiance. Where with the concept of the law of attraction, it is more like is attracted to like. Compassion is sort of flowing with the absense of desire, law of attraction is more like accomplishing (or finding the intended) desire. In Daoism, you could say that the law of attraction is based in the nature of the “Two” that emerge from the “One” (or yin-yang), and the compassion mentioned is based in the Dao.

I don’t quite see how you come to that point of view from the verse. Also, I think that if you look at the teachings of Jesus, you would see that he says the opposite... “Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:42‬ ‭KJV And also, we are all interconnected and ”one in Christ”... For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Romans 12:4-5 KJV

Excellent quote. Thank you. But it seems to say that emptiness is not empty.

Interesting and provocative post. Could you post or send me the info where you describe your definition of enlightenment? Also, happy to discuss your current energy body state and why the nihilistic and lack of “contentedness” feeling, if you are interested.

Yes, with what I call perfect faith, there is direct knowing (or being), as there is no obstruction obscuring the knowing.

Sure, all a matter of perspective... Could also say that faith ranges from believing (low faith) to true knowing (perfect faith).

Then the faith itself was only believing and not knowing. Faith itself as a word is really a subset of either believing or knowing.

I think you make some very good points. I would say that in this context, it is more about "leaving" and not being attached to the family, similar to how Buddha left his wife and child. The point is further highlighted below... Matthew 8:19-22 19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. In Jesus saying "let the dead bury their dead", he is saying that if one gets caught up and attached to a role (father, mother, son, daughter...) then one is not realizing their true nature (or spirit within). And if you don't realize it, it leads to death. So pick up the cross (deal with all of it) and move forward.

Thought it was pretty self evident in the descriptions of earthly stuff being useless and to focus on spirit within. But, since you asked, here you go... Romans 8:6-17 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. To be focused on earthly desire leads to death, but higher spiritual leads to everlasting life (and peace). 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Because the desire based mind is separate from being with God, and not connected with God. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. So then those focused on fleshly desires cannot (please) realize God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. But anyone who has realized that higher spirit within, knows that all of the earthly desires are meaningless. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. And if you have realized this, even though the body dies because of desires and attachments, the higher spirit of you continues. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. But if that deep "Holy Spirit" aspect of you is realized, you will find the eternal. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Therefore friends, forget all that worldly crap (and zealot like plans... ) 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Because if you don't, you are toast (will die), but if you do notice the spirit within you, you will eternally live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For all who are led and find that spirit are sons of God (not just Jesus). 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. So don't get caught up in fear of death, but find and let in the spirit of the Father/God. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: The Spirit of God, will always recognize the spirit with in us, and knows that we are all children of God. 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. And since we all have the same potential as Jesus, we are all potential "joint heirs" and can be a Christ like him. Just need to realize that you that there is a lot of crap you will have to let go (suffer) of.

I should probably add that Jesus is more like a smarter and older brother to me...

It is definitely not an either-or of your only two scenarios... My point is simply that what Jesus actually is quoted as saying in bible (whether really existed or not), does not at all support your radical zealot view of him. He talks about peace, love, forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Even when they come to take him, he does not want to fight them, but instead heals the High priest who was wounded. If the gospels are really supposed to be about a radical revolution at an earthly world level, it does an extremely poor job. Constantly saying that earthly stuff, just leads to death. Here is another examples of what the gospels actually preach... Romans 8:6-17 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. The gospels repeatedly state that worrying about earthly stuff (and desires) leads to death. Everyone needs to find the (Holy) Spirit within themselves and become a "son of God" in their own right. And know, I did not read any eastern traditions and then map them to the words of Jesus. But, since I started out more from a (mystical) christian view, the teachings of Jesus did create the mental clarity that allowed to better understand some eastern traditions.

I think your theory has many problems if you actually look at what Jesus says and the fuller context of your quotes... Matthew 26:8-13 8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? 9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. 11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always. 12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial. 13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her. He is clearly stating that he going to die soon (did it for my burial) and it is about preaching the gospel. Again, Jesus clearly states that the Kingdom of God is not some worldly thing, but a spiritual thing found within oneself... Luke 17:20-21 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Once again in context, lets see how Jesus actually responds and what he does in Luke 22... Luke 22:49-51 49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? 50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. 51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. Rather than incite any worldly violence, Jesus heals the ear of his oppressor. Here is some food for thought in the words of Jesus, describing what he is doing (and it has nothing to do with any earthly zealot war... John 14:10-17 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. As stated, Jesus brings the "spirit of truth", that the world does not see or know, but can be found within you.

I would agree. Especially if you think of poor in the context of not having attachments. For me, the verse would read/translate as... Jesus said, “Blessed are the ones without attachments, for yours is the kingdom of heaven”.

Interesting theory. Thank you for sharing. For me, it is also a broader statement. Sort of along the lines of describing how a bunch of the old rules from the Old Testament were not really important with regards to realizing the spirit. Sort of like saying there is a new truth and deeper understanding.

Continuing on with the next verse... 53. His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?" He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect." Any thoughts?

Thanks. Had just wondered if in your mind there had been any deeper meaning.

Don't understand what you are trying to say. Could you explain what you mean? 8 eye? quadruple distortions?

Haha. No adgenda, and not referring to Mayan calanders, aliens, etc... I was simply asking if any of the members had felt an recent shifts in the various energies they felt in their dally lives. From the responses I can tell if we are talking about the same phenomenona or not.

I am only throwing out the Old Testament and fine with all of the New Testament. Also, my point is really that Jesus and his teachings are vastly beyond (and different) than the Old. The “new wine” is so new as compared to the “old wineskin”, that there is really no point in trying to correlate the two. And that correlation was driven not by Jesus and his teachings, but more by an “empire” that wanted these older components for the purpose of fear and empire building.

As I stated in an earlier post, I agree that there are many similar concepts expressed that are similar to other traditions. That would seem to be expected across all traditions to various degrees. To me, it becomes interesting when traditions take things beyond some basic generic norm, something which Jesus does. I have done that to give examples of how your “only apologists” argument does not fit for me. I do not see how your wife and friends being “Harvard Divinity” has any bearing on the topic. Are you saying that your wife and friends have doctorates in philosophy, and that relates in some way? Since you have stated that you only like 2% of the gospels and New Testament, I can see why you would not be interested in a long discussion of it. It is your 2%, as compared to my much higher percentage, that is probably the basis for our differing views. I totally agree that there is no point in trying to take any oral tradition that didn’t right anything down until 50-100 years later as a historical account. To me it is about the teachings themselves, not the literal historical accuracy.

There is some very good stuff to be found in the teaching of Jesus. But, to each their own.

No, I also think it is a good idea to put latrines down stream and away from the camp as the Old Testament describes as commanded by God. Just not big into the god commands to around around raping and killing captive prisoners.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are missing my point. You are making the “bible” as a book that was assembled under the guidance of the Roman Empire as the defining point of the discussion. The “bible” was assembled hundreds of years after the time of Christ. My point is different. I am saying that the teachings of Jesus are radically different than those found in the Old Testament. A “truth” rather than a bunch of old rules. Also, I fine with all of the gospels in the New Testament. The shift between the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament is so great, that is like trying to take all of modern knowledge of astronomy and trying to force it to fit in a (Old) model where the sun revolves around the earth.